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UK: Ban kitchen knives

 
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:40 am    Post subject: UK: Ban kitchen knives Reply with quote

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

Quote:
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

The research is published in the British Medical Journal.

The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all.


The UK leads the way.
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will knife owners and other enthusiasts stock up on these knives now before (if?) the ban goes into place or will it be that even if you currently own one they will be confiscated?
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hilarious. How about scissors? Box cutters? Baseball bats? Hammers? Crow bars? Rocks? All should be banned forthwith.

Actually long fingernails and fists should also be banned.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the British have never been especially good at moderation. Pretty silly idea, though. Guns have a clear and substantial potency advantage over other weapons and have minimal non-violent use, making them viable targets for weapons regulations. Knives lack comparable traits, being at best very-slightly better at harming humans than hundreds of other things you could find lying around society, and having immense non-violent utility. There reaches a point of diminishing returns regarding weapons regulation, and the British are already past it.

Of course, given this article is from 2005, we've had plenty of time for this ban to materialize. Has it? Or is this just something American gun fanatics have stumbled across and are now talking about in order to implicitly equate the ridiculousness of "kitchen knife bans" with much more reasonable firearms regulation?
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Pretty silly idea, though. Guns have a clear and substantial potency advantage over other weapons and have minimal non-violent use, making them viable targets for weapons regulations. Knives lack comparable traits, being at best very-slightly better at harming humans than hundreds of other things you could find lying around society, and having immense non-violent utility.

No, the article clearly states that pointed knives have NO PURPOSE in cooking and serve only as a killing weapon. You have to admit, slashing attacks are far less dangerous than stabbings, and rounded points would drastically reduce accidental injury.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:

No, the article clearly states that pointed knives have NO PURPOSE in cooking and serve only as a killing weapon.


I use knife points when I cook. The point being made there is not that pointed knives have no purpose, it's that other tools can act as adequate replacements for the point in the circumstances where it is used:

Quote:
None of the chefs felt such knives were essential, since the point of a short blade was just as useful when a sharp end was needed.


That's probably true, but you're still going to have some pointy object lying around, even if it's not the knife. So you can be slashed by your crazy wife with the rounded knife, or you can be stabbed in the throat with the tip of a short blade knife. Whichever it is, you're probably not going to be much better off: there simply isn't the huge disparity in killing power here that is present between firearms and non-firearms.

comm wrote:
You have to admit, slashing attacks are far less dangerous than stabbings,


Right on mises' link is a picture of a slashing wound, and it's not pretty. But that's tangential, because stabbing-implements would still be in kitchens, they would just be distinct from slashing-implements.

comm wrote:
and rounded points would drastically reduce accidental injury.


How can you say accidental injury would be drastically reduced? Accidental injuries by knife tend to be self-inflicted cuts, which would be reduced by roughly 0% by rounding the tip. In fact, I don't think I've ever met someone who accidentally stabbed them self in my entire life. I'm sure one of the gun proponents on this board, though, looking to draw a false equivalency between guns and knives, will stand up and proudly proclaim that they accidentally stab them self all the time.

So gun proponents have dredged up an idea from the UK in 2005, pushed by a few doctors, evidently never acted upon, all to make fools of themselves by trying to draw false equivalency between gun control and knife-point bans. This is the state of modern American culture. Fox News isn't just a TV channel, it's a bloody lifestyle.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
So gun proponents have dredged up an idea from the UK in 2005, pushed by a few doctors, evidently never acted upon, all to make fools of themselves by trying to draw false equivalency between gun control and knife-point bans. This is the state of modern American culture. Fox News isn't just a TV channel, it's a bloody lifestyle.

Do you think knife crime has abated in the years since the article was written? The UK has more violent crime than either the U.S. or any other European country per capita, and stabbings are clearly the most dangerous types of attacks. The country already regulates a number of types of knives which are probably LESS dangerous than the long-bladed, pointed knives the study applies to.

American law (regarding guns or otherwise) has absolutely no bearing on this. I wouldn't expect the UK to adopt American laws to solve their problems any more than I would expect the U.S. to adopt UK laws.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:

Do you think knife crime has abated in the years since the article was written?


I don't know, but given that, as far as I'm aware, pointy kitchen knives are still legal in the UK, how would the article be expected to have an impact in any way? Their suggestion doesn't seem to have been adopted, so it's a non-factor.

comm wrote:
The country already regulates a number of types of knives which are probably LESS dangerous than the long-bladed, pointed knives the study applies to.


Yes, but it regulates them in a totally meaningless fashion with regards to actual crime. "Regulation" is not some monolithic absolute: effective regulations exist, and completely ineffective regulations exist. The former may or may not succeed, but of course the latter will fail.

comm wrote:
American law (regarding guns or otherwise) has absolutely no bearing on this.


The current situation in America is the only reason this 2005 article has been dug up and is suddenly in active circulation again. That is the relation.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:
Fox wrote:
Pretty silly idea, though. Guns have a clear and substantial potency advantage over other weapons and have minimal non-violent use, making them viable targets for weapons regulations. Knives lack comparable traits, being at best very-slightly better at harming humans than hundreds of other things you could find lying around society, and having immense non-violent utility.

No, the article clearly states that pointed knives have NO PURPOSE in cooking and serve only as a killing weapon. You have to admit, slashing attacks are far less dangerous than stabbings, and rounded points would drastically reduce accidental injury.

No, those rounded bread knives always get ya, too! The only solution is a completely NERF kitchen with no points or sharp edges at all. Ban stoves and ovens too because people could get burned; mandatory helmets and protective body suits at all times in the kitchen. And how about the garage...
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:
comm wrote:
Fox wrote:
Pretty silly idea, though. Guns have a clear and substantial potency advantage over other weapons and have minimal non-violent use, making them viable targets for weapons regulations. Knives lack comparable traits, being at best very-slightly better at harming humans than hundreds of other things you could find lying around society, and having immense non-violent utility.

No, the article clearly states that pointed knives have NO PURPOSE in cooking and serve only as a killing weapon. You have to admit, slashing attacks are far less dangerous than stabbings, and rounded points would drastically reduce accidental injury.

No, those rounded bread knives always get ya, too! The only solution is a completely NERF kitchen with no points or sharp edges at all. Ban stoves and ovens too because people could get burned; mandatory helmets and protective body suits at all times in the kitchen. And how about the garage...

I think we should all be incapacitated (movement is dangerous), placed into nutrient-filled pods with nodes plugged into our brains like in the Matrix, and force-fed happy thoughts. Anything less would be irresponsible.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything should be made out of bubble-wrap -cars, shoes, windows, knives, etc. Everything. I'm pretty sure we could even make a TV out of bubble-wrap if we dedicated enough resources towards a governmental initiative.

It's recyclable too, so we'll be saving the planet at the same time.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Fox has written everything meaningful that can be said on this topic.

PS. I wouldn't be surprised if someone eventually digs up the Haitōrei Edict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hait%C5%8Drei_Edict
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They'll get around to it. It's quite a simple thing: 1) black people in the UK *are* the knifing problem, but you can't ban black people and 2) black people can't be disproportionately suffering because Equality so 3) ban kitchen knives.

They'll use an inflection point (a white guy stabbing a bunch of people) to push it through.
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