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Some Republicans reconsider gun-control, raising taxes
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Some Republicans reconsider gun-control, raising taxes Reply with quote

Republicans are starting to come to the understanding that they are out of touch with the majority of American people and that if they are to survive they need to make some changes (finally). The Democrats did that in the 1990s and moved toward the middle. It is time for the Republicans to correct as well:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/26/16165776-gop-willing-to-bend-on-issues-after-election?lite

By The Associated Press
For years, Republicans have adhered fiercely to their bedrock conservative principles, resisting Democratic calls for tax hikes, comprehensive immigration reform and gun control. Now, seven weeks after an electoral drubbing, some party leaders and rank-and-file alike are signaling a willingness to bend on all three issues.
What long has been a nonstarter for Republicans raising tax rates on wealthy Americans is now backed by GOP House Speaker John Boehner in his negotiations with President Barack Obama to avert a potential fiscal crisis. Party luminaries, including Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, have started calling for a wholesale shift in the GOP's approach to immigration after Hispanic voters shunned Republican candidates. And some Republicans who previously championed gun rights now are opening the door to restrictions following a schoolhouse shooting spree earlier this month.

"Put guns on the table. Also, put video games on the table. Put mental health on the table," Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Ga., said last week. Other prominent Republicans echoed him in calling for a sweeping review of how to prevent tragedies like the Newtown, Conn., massacre. Among those who were open to a re-evaluation of the nation's gun policies were Sens. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., and Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa.
"You've got to take all these things into consideration," Grassley said.

But what's increasingly clear is that the party (Republicans) is now engaged in an uncomfortable and very public fight over whether its tenets, still firmly held within the party's most devout ranks, conflict with the views of Americans as a whole.

Many Republicans recognize that to remain relevant with voters whose views are changing, they too must change.

"We lost the election because we were out of touch with the American people," said John Weaver, a senior adviser to past presidential candidates John McCain, the GOP nominee in 2008, and Jon Huntsman, who ran for the nomination this year.

The polling suggests as much.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Republican position on gun control is probably one of their most popular platforms, to the chagrin of most of the American media. I certainly hope they reevaluate their positions on other aspects of personal freedom, but I suspect they'll go for a "family values" position. They'll just tweak the message to embrace minorities and keep paying lip service to personal freedom.

As for taxes... it might make liberals feel good to tax some people at a higher rate than others, but it's not going to help our debt situation at all. As this Canadian MP points out, sovereign debt payments from the U.S. to China is paying for nearly their entire military.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:
The Republican position on gun control is probably one of their most popular platforms, to the chagrin of most of the American media.

Exactly. Trying to cast the 2nd Amendment as some sort of fringe view is laughable. There is a reason that people like their guns: it's called freedom, and being responsible for one's own life. Only the loony left thinks that giving up our rights so we can live in collectivist dependence under the government (a government which is openly corrupt and even criminal, I might add) is something trendy and 'progressive' to be aspired to.
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ghostrider



Joined: 27 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am being cautiously optimistic. I've heard that some members of Congress who received very high ratings from the NRA have switched sides. Senator Feinstein will soon introduce a bill to ban assault weapons which I hear is modeled on California's own state ban on such weapons and that a gun can be banned for having only one military feature. I think even the NRA may be starting to understand that their position is too extreme or at least they are trying to water down their message to decrease its offensiveness. Notice their response to the Sandy Hook shootings. They didn't say that teachers should be armed. They didn't even say that restrictions on people who have a license to carry a concealed weapon should be lifted in school areas. They said schools should hire well-trained, armed security guards- something that is probably impractical. I suppose they could people from Blackwater who have experience in Iraqi war zones to patrol elementary school hallways but who's going to pay for it?
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
I am being cautiously optimistic. I've heard that some members of Congress who received very high ratings from the NRA have switched sides. Senator Feinstein will soon introduce a bill to ban assault weapons which I hear is modeled on California's own state ban on such weapons and that a gun can be banned for having only one military feature.

Do you have a link about anyone "switching sides"? Because I'm pretty sure all there's been is the very non-committal "we're gonna look at guns" talking point that gets them through the irrational backlash of this tragedy.

And is there any chance you could elaborate on what kind of guns would be banned? What exactly is a "military feature"?
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ghostrider



Joined: 27 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:
ghostrider wrote:
I am being cautiously optimistic. I've heard that some members of Congress who received very high ratings from the NRA have switched sides. Senator Feinstein will soon introduce a bill to ban assault weapons which I hear is modeled on California's own state ban on such weapons and that a gun can be banned for having only one military feature.

Do you have a link about anyone "switching sides"? Because I'm pretty sure all there's been is the very non-committal "we're gonna look at guns" talking point that gets them through the irrational backlash of this tragedy.

"GWEN IFILL: Let's talk about the politics of all of this.

Today, we saw three pro-gun-rights Democratic senators, Sen. Reid, Sen. Manchin, Sen. Warner, all say that what happened in Newtown Connecticut has changed everything. Do you have a sense that there's a shift under way?

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Oh, yes. I think this is the straw that broke the camel's back, to be very honest with you, Gwen."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/feinstein_12-17.html

comm wrote:
And is there any chance you could elaborate on what kind of guns would be banned? What exactly is a "military feature"?

Probably features like these. I'm told the bill will also include a list of specific guns to be banned such as the Bushmaster used in the Newtown shooting.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the tenor of American politics is about to change.

1) I think we will see a return to the income tax rates for high earners back to where it was during the Clinton Presidency.

2) There will be comprehensive immigration reform which will extend rights to illegal aliens and will open up more avenues for legal immigration.

3) There will be a limited gun control measure - something on the order of making some types of automatic weapons illegal but my guess is that whatever legislation is passed, it is highly likely to be thrown out by the Supreme Court under its current make-up. So, VisitorQ and Comm you don't have to get too worked up.

I suspect a few other things as well:

4) The U.S. will completely pull out of Afghanistan by the end of Obama's term.

5) There will be a U.S. lead effort for some kind of peace treaty between the Palestinians and the Israelis, though with Clinton stepping down there is a slightly less chance.

6) There will be some kind of Jobs Bill, though I don't know what it will look like.

7) There will be a balanced budget at least once before Obama leaves office.

Cool Minor tinkering with Social Security but nothing substantial.

9) Minor, symbolic cuts to defense spending but nothing substantial

10) The economy will continue to improve.

What we won't see (since I am predicting the future anyway):

A) Any kind of mental health care legislation.

B) Anything much in the way of domestic legislation or programs other than what will be called a Jobs Bill.

C) Sadly, the Patriot Act won't be touched and may be a fixture for generations to come.

D) There won't be any changes in drug laws.


In 2016, the Democrats will nominate a woman for President but it won't be Hillary Clinton and a major theme of the election will be women's health issues. Also, look for the Dems to play-up that they were able to pass immigration reform.

Republicans will change for 2016. They will do their best to look warm hearted and caring. They will also have more specific proposals and not underestimate 47% of the electorate.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, they mention gun control and video games in the same breath...Sounds to me like they are planning on pinning this on video games in order to do nothing about gun control.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Sounds to me like they are planning on pinning this on video games in order to do nothing about gun control.


That's the NRA's primary strategy here: change this from a Second Amendment matter to a First Amendment matter in the minds of the average person.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
Today, we saw three pro-gun-rights Democratic senators, Sen. Reid, Sen. Manchin, Sen. Warner, all say that what happened in Newtown Connecticut has changed everything. Do you have a sense that there's a shift under way?

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Oh, yes. I think this is the straw that broke the camel's back, to be very honest with you, Gwen."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/feinstein_12-17.html

Yeah, and the coach of the Detroit Lions is sure they're going to have a great season. We'll see how it plays out, but I'm pretty sure these are comments to get them through the unthinking emotional uproar after a tragedy. They can't get calls from angry fools all day and not say something, but when the anti-gun crowd is out-numbered by the freedom crowd, they aren't actually going to act on it.


ghostrider wrote:
I'm told the bill will also include a list of specific guns to be banned such as the Bushmaster used in the Newtown shooting.

Naturally it doesn't matter that a rifle wasn't used in the shooting, and as Madoka pointed out previously, only a tiny fraction of murders committed in the U.S. used rifles.
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ghostrider



Joined: 27 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A summary of the legislation that Senator Feinstein will propose-
http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=10993387-5d4d-4680-a872-ac8ca4359119

It looks like current owners will be allowed to keep their weapons. However, they will have register their guns, be fingerprinted, and pass a background check.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the US budget now? 3 trillion? That's not enough? 3 trillion for 300 million people (at the Federal level alone)? More taxes?
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finger printing seems a little too much for me.

What we do need are background checks but sadly all they are probably going to do is see if you have ever been convicted of a crime but those are unlikely to be the people who buy "legal" guns.

This sounds like the typical BS gun legislation done in the past which just harasses people who want to buy guns and does little to stop crime. This is the problem with "gun control" - it is not the principle, it is the implementation.

Don't ask me how to implement it but what we need is licencing (can you take care of a gun properly), mental health testing (even anger issues should be enough to stop someone from having a gun) and insurance. You need to be able to prove you are responsible enough to own a gun.

We also need to highly regulate gun shows and make sure that gun sales are legit. Taxes from gun purchases should be used to fund increase policing.

To be honest, if I were in Congress, I don't know if I would vote for such legislation as Feinstein seems to be proposing.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ghostrider wrote:
A summary of the legislation that Senator Feinstein will propose-
http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=10993387-5d4d-4680-a872-ac8ca4359119

It looks like current owners will be allowed to keep their weapons. However, they will have register their guns, be fingerprinted, and pass a background check.

Feinstein is the biggest hypocrite imaginable. She openly admits she carried a concealed weapon to protect herself, but now wants to ban all us little people from doing the same. Nothing but an authoritarian hypocrite with no credibility whatsoever.

Her legislation will be resisted tooth and nail. The strategy of anti-gun (i.e. pro-tyranny) crowd here is incrementalism: to start off small, and carry on inch by inch until all guns are totally banned. This is their true agenda and any attempts by them to seem even handed and reasonable are not to be trusted for a second. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
What's the US budget now? 3 trillion? That's not enough? 3 trillion for 300 million people (at the Federal level alone)? More taxes?


Yes. Tax the Baby Boomers more now so they don't loot the state. They've given themselves record tax cuts and left little in investments in the state for the next generation. Either we raise taxes now or we suffer generational theft.

The Iraq War and the Afghan Adventure were put on the national credit card, and taxes haven't been levied to pay for it.
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