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Some Republicans reconsider gun-control, raising taxes
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't thik we'll pull completely out of Afghanistan. We will 'on paper' but we'll leave 'advisors' and perhaps pay for contracted personnel.

I think the jobs bill will be in some part an infrastructure bill. I think drug laws won't change on the federal level but they will continue to change at the state level and the federal government won't enforce it. Gay marriage will become fairly prevalent with the bible belt states holding out but will soften their view.

There will be immigration reform. The Republicans see the latino vote as doable and will go after it.

The next Democrat 'star' will be Newark, NJ mayor Cory Booker. He'll go after and win a senatorial bid. Future presidential candidate.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Yes. Tax the Baby Boomers more now so they don't loot the state.


Ok. So we'll build in an age requirement to the new taxes?

Kuros wrote:
The Iraq War and the Afghan Adventure were put on the national credit card, and taxes haven't been levied to pay for it.


The American population was bamboozled into that war by Shysters. To whom should we send the bill? Me? You?
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
I don't thik we'll pull completely out of Afghanistan. We will 'on paper' but we'll leave 'advisors' and perhaps pay for contracted personnel.


The Pentagon is making plans now for an additional 10 years of current or near-current troop levels.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Kuros wrote:
Yes. Tax the Baby Boomers more now so they don't loot the state.


Ok. So we'll build in an age requirement to the new taxes?


The plan will be to link tax increases with spending cuts in a 1-to-2 or 1-to-3 ratio. The trick is making many of those spending cuts military cuts.

The Pentagon repeatedly gets funding for programs it doesn't want. Imagine a scenario where the Dept. of Health and Human Services or the National Institute for Health told Congress it did not want to fund a program and Congress funded it anyway.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:

The Pentagon repeatedly gets funding for programs it doesn't want.


Pentagon funding is very frustrating. Entire weapon developments have followed full life-cycle despite being unnecessary/useless for the military.
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Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gun nuts are idiots. I bought a glock and all it took was a call to the local sheriffs department. I could be an absolute nutter but hey gun shows my 2nd amendment rights-idiots. but police should not have more powerful firearms than the average american. gun nuts are destroying our country
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:
Gun nuts are idiots. I bought a glock and all it took was a call to the local sheriffs department.

Was there a background check or not?
You are aware that this "destroying our country" thing where people are able to buy guns has been the case since the country was founded. So gun freedom is destroying our country, it's not doing it very quickly Smile
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Titus wrote:
What's the US budget now? 3 trillion? That's not enough? 3 trillion for 300 million people (at the Federal level alone)? More taxes?


Yes. Tax the Baby Boomers more now so they don't loot the state. They've given themselves record tax cuts and left little in investments in the state for the next generation. Either we raise taxes now or we suffer generational theft.

The Iraq War and the Afghan Adventure were put on the national credit card, and taxes haven't been levied to pay for it.


'Small' quibble.

I agree with the whole post, except for the label of 'Baby Boomer'. This is a dodge.

It ain't age that is the problem. It is the philosophy. Yes, tax people my age who are still working, but make it clear that it was conservative supply-side trickle-down Reaganism that was the problem. Lots of Boomers opposed it at the time--just not enough to win the elections. It was 'government isn't the solution, it is the problem' thinking that was the crux of the matter.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta is historically correct. These policies were all pushed by the government is the problem people. And, it wasn't just the military adventures, it was the deregulation of the banking industry. The deficit really began to swell with the S&L bailout.

For me, the underlying problem is a lack of care about government and politics which politicians, especially those in the Republican Party, have exploited.

It is time to realize that government does make a difference and it is something worth making better, not destroying.

And, it has been the wealthiest few that have overwelmingly benefited from these policies at the expense of weakening and defunding the government and turning the government into a mess and it should be the wealthiest few that should now pay the bill.

There are other values out there besides freedom. There is justice, too. It is time to bring some justice into the discussion.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:

There are other values out there besides freedom. There is justice, too. It is time to bring some justice into the discussion.


Absolutely. Indeed, the value of freedom itself is entirely dependent on the degree to which said freedom works in the service of justice. Justice is not merely another value, it is the supreme value, the standard by which a society is to be measured, with all other lesser values being subordinate to it.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
And, it wasn't just the military adventures, it was the deregulation of the banking industry.

This one gets me every time. The banking industry is probably the most heavily regulated industry in existence, starting with legal tender laws. Pretty well every aspect of the banking sector is regulated (including the housing bubble, which was deliberate Fed and government policy), not to mention the bailouts of Wall Street (which insiders, i.e. people at Goldman-Sachs, knew all along was going to happen)

Seriously, how can one possibly describe the banking sector as "deregulated"??
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Absolutely. Indeed, the value of freedom itself is entirely dependent on the degree to which said freedom works in the service of justice. Justice is not merely another value, it is the supreme value, the standard by which a society is to be measured, with all other lesser values being subordinate to it.

That's certainly not how the American government is set up. If justice were priority one then most of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments wouldn't exist The entire concept of those Amendments is that innocent people shouldn't have to sacrifice their freedom in pursuit of justice...
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:

That's certainly not how the American government is set up.


I am speaking of ethics, comm, not law. American law originally enshrined slavery in a golden position, even granting slave holders (in aggregate) increased political influence for owning slaves. It has no intrinsic ethical authority; it is well-crafted to the extent that it coincides with justice, and poorly crafted to the extent that it fails to.

Worship the Constitition if you like, I do not mind, but do not expect me to be impressed by your self-inflicted lack of ethical clarity.

comm wrote:
If justice were priority one then most of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments wouldn't exist.


You misunderstand me. I am not talking about the criminal justice system when I refer to "justice," but something supremely more fundamental and entirely independent of law or politics (though law and politics both in turn rely upon it, or at least ought to).
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we have to interpret the 5th and 6th amendments as the triumph of freedom over justice. I think a large part of the reasoning if not the entire reasoning behind the 5th and 6th amendments is to ensure justice so that people were not free to use the government to unjustly prosecute someone.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
I don't think we have to interpret the 5th and 6th amendments as the triumph of freedom over justice.

True. But it does clearly show that the freedom of innocents is more important than justice for criminals. Imagine how many more criminals would be punished if the "double jeopardy" clause were removed.

As to the relevance of the Constitution...
It is the thing that politicians and military personnel swear to uphold, not an abstract concept of freedom or justice or the power of politicians. If the priorities of our society have changed, we can change it. Until then, the letter and spirit of it is exactly what we should be basing our current legislation on.
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