Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Unposter]

When people talk about equality, most mean equality before the law, something that has only been very recent in the U.S. Bluring equality before the law with all people are the same leads to the danger of drifting back to not all people are equal before the law. And, that is a very dangerous thing IMHO.

And, I also think diversity has been a strength of the U.S. America is a big country where people from all backgrounds have made important contributions. Not all countries can say the same, though I certainly wish they could.

[sirius black]

Again, and I've posted this before with links but will spare you all.
Violent crime in numbers has NEVER been a function of race. Its ALWAYS been a function of socio-economic issues. Poor people commit violent crimes and this happens in every country. Even in Africa. The upper classes, the rich they have there, aren't committing the violent crimes obviously.

Again, in the mid to late 1800s Irish Americans committed about 70% of all crime in NYC. Why is that. titus has never been able to tell me why.

A few decades later, the lower east side of Manhattan, a largely Jewish area had an extremely high crime rate. Why is that? Jews were well involved in organized crime (Meyer Lansky, Dutch Schultz, Bugsy Siegel are the more famous wones but many others were involved.

What did the Irish in the 1800s and the Jews have in common? They were poor, faced massive social prejudice against their kind.

Italian Americans as well.

The fact is that the aforementioned groups were NOT considered White when they came to America. The Irish were continuously described as the 'Irish race' and were often depicted in ape caricature in cartoons.

The Jews were not considered White when they came en masse at the turn of the century. Neither were the Italians who were often referred to as 'swarthy' and believed to possess a certain degree of 'Moorish' blood because of the long time the African moors spent in Sicily and other parts of Italy. Many, especially Sicilians had had dark hair, olive skin and dark eyes.

Furthermore, I posted a link once to a Stanford University paper that looked at crime and race and found that even if you factored out minority crime stats and left only white crime stats, America would be the most violent developed country in the world. So, even if you got rid of all minorties, violent crime would still be part of society here. Its cultural perhaps as Europeans often think about us.

If violent crime was a function of race then middle and upper middle class blacks would be just as violent. Does anyone fear or expect Colin Powell's or Will Smith's sons to become violent criminals? Furthermore, the vast majority of violated crime Blacks committ are against other Blacks. Yes, Whites are victims as well but the fact is Black on Black crime. Also, its NOT the majority of people or even close to being the majority of males either. Furthermore, the group with the largest increase into middle and upper middle classes for the '90s has been Blacks statstically. One of the unsaid success stories in the last couple decades has been the rise of the Black middle class. So, its not all Blacks, only the poor ones that did not take advantage of opportunities or perhaps did not have the tools to succeed and the odds were too great.

The fact is when the Irish, Italian and Jews were accepted into the American mainstream particiapation in organized criminal acivity dropped considerably. No one is saying that Blacks, at least the poor, violent ones shouldn't take some responsibility for themselves and not be punished when they commit crimes.

My suggestion is to start providing those areas with the tools for success. The inner city schools suck. Improve the schools, especially k-6. Provide jobsm, factories in the large urban centers moved to other areas decades ago. Make those areas 'enterprise zones' as former Republican senator Jack Kemp proposed years ago with massive tax incentives if companies, especially manufacturing companies, moved some operations there. But also servicing companies. Lets look at these inane drug laws which account for a huge proportion of Blacks and Latinos in jail as users, sellers or addicted persons who rob and steal to feed their habit. The infrastructure bill would go a huge way into providing jobs in the high crime areas as often the infrastructure there is decrepid and needs fixing and can provide jobs for the local populace.

Finally, we talk about these folks as if they are alien. The fact is they are American citizens. We are all stuck with each other. You may not like diversity but its what we are. We must deal with it. Separating races as titus proposes is a non starter not worth considering. It simply won't happen...and I suggest, shouldn't happen. Lest start talking about REAL solutions instead of solutions based on fear and prejudice.

Finally, its interesting how the NRA uses the fear of urban crime to get people to arm themselves. People who will never see urban crime from their safe haven. The NRA talks about law-abiding people arming themselves to protect their life and home. However, its also interesting I've yet to hear the NRA suggest law-abiding, inner city Blacks and Latinos arm themselves to fight the high crime in their area. Maybe they have, I don't know. I know I haven't seen it, has anyone? If there is, I'd love to see a link.

[comm]

[Titus]

[sirius black]

[sirius black]

[Titus]

Blacks of any income group commit crime higher than whites of any income group. The violent crime rate for the kids of affluent blacks is higher than poor whites. Fact. See Color of Crime.

Similarly, females of any income group commit crimes at a lower rate than males of any income group.

Is this because men are less wealthy than women? Are we now to invert the pissing and moaning of women and distribute to men for social justice and social peace? Let's be coherent (to the extent possible).

Simple question for the religious liberal: Blacks are more violent than whites to just about exactly the same extent that men are more violent than women.

Why? Explain both please.

[Titus]

isteve.blogspot.com/2012/12/national-mass-shooting-toll-since-1980s.html

[sirius black]

I think what we are leaving out is HOW criminals get guns. Lets stop their access. Not enough is being done.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

"Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.
also
one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen.
and
According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."

Finally

The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

Why aren't we using our resources to infiltrate and finding these people who get the guns to people not authorized to get them?

Also, with regards to straw sales, I don't know the penality for that but there should be some severe penalty for that. If your gun is stolen so be it. File a report but I'd look at those suspiciously as well.

Guns from what it seems are easily obtainable in the high crime areas. If a kid in a crime area knows how to get one easily, surely it should be fairly easy for law enforcement to find the same peoples, infiltrate the group via undercover agents or informants and get to the sources.

As for the stores selling illegal guns, take away their rights after convicting them.

[sirius black]

[sirius black]

[quote="Titus"]Blacks of any income group commit crime higher than whites of any income group. The violent crime rate for the kids of affluent blacks is higher than poor whites. Fact. See Color of Crime.

Similarly, females of any income group commit crimes at a lower rate than males of any income group.

Is this because men are less wealthy than women? Are we now to invert the pissing and moaning of women and distribute to men for social justice and social peace? Let's be coherent (to the extent possible).

Simple question for the religious liberal: Blacks are more violent than whites to just about exactly the same extent that men are more violent than women.

I googled it and didn't see anything that supports that upper middle class blacks commit more crimes than poor whites.

Show me a specific link please before I believe Bill Cosby's kid Theo is a violent criminal in the making.

[sirius black]

Finally, the way I know these stats are wrong and it should be for all of us who have 'lived' and I assume titus has is the Blacks (as well as the many Latinos, Asians, Gays, Jews, etc.) that we know, and speaking specifically to Blacks aren't violent criminals. We've gone to middle and high schools with them, college. Some have lived in our neighborhoods, are our teachers, etc. even called friends. Got to know some families. We primarily read about Blacks that we have never met and don't know and the ones we have met aren't these violent criminals. If you travel enough and get around enough you'll meet Blacks who are assholes and some who are great people. Basically, human. Just like the rest of other groups. I would suffice to say the vast majority of Blacks, Titus have met don't fall in that category as well but would rather believe some stat to substantiate a belief system.

Believe what you know and experience, what you have never seen is my advice.

[Privateer]

[ghostrider]

[ghostrider]