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HIV/AIDS Tests as a Proxy for RacialDiscrimination?
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: HIV/AIDS Tests as a Proxy for RacialDiscrimination? Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
AbbeFaria wrote:
They're easier to fire when the do a piss-poor job.


As a parent, I know for a fact that's not true at all.


I've seen K teachers get fired and they have a new one in the class in a week's time. At hagwons, anyway. I don't have any experience with public school teachers. Conversely, I saw a teacher do a runner after his first month and the school lost so much business without a foreign teacher that they almost had to close their doors. Finding a new foreign teacher can be an arduous and time consuming process. Especially when they're not prepared for it.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Then leave korea if it is that bad. i had a pretty good time in Korea. Made some coin met interesting people, saw some interesting things, learned a lot actually.
Giving someone a job, a plane ticket and an apartment based on where they were born is definitely discrimination!!!

The requirements for Koreans to work as teachers has nothing to do with your situation. We are transient guest workers . Can not compare them.

A test for H.I.V. is a good thing. Don't you think it is a responsible thing to do. Doctors encourage getting tested.

E2 is not a race.


The motivations behind the test are discriminatory. They are based on no sound science or real threat. It perpetuates a racist stereotype that non-Koreans are not to be trusted and are dirty or contaminated. It's born out of a sense of racial purity and narcissistic nationalism. We're here for their women folk and even that might not be enough to slake our perverse western lusts-- we might need to start fondling their poor innocent children, too. Or so goes their thinking. They maintain this idea in in the face of evidence that proves rates of crime and disease are lower amongst foreigners than their own people.

That's just the moral and ethical problems with such a test. There is also the problem that they signed a treaty stating they would not do such things.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject: Re: HIV/AIDS Tests as a Proxy for RacialDiscrimination? Reply with quote

AbbeFaria wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
AbbeFaria wrote:
They're easier to fire when the do a piss-poor job.


As a parent, I know for a fact that's not true at all.


I've seen K teachers get fired and they have a new one in the class in a week's time. At hagwons, anyway. I don't have any experience with public school teachers. Conversely, I saw a teacher do a runner after his first month and the school lost so much business without a foreign teacher that they almost had to close their doors. Finding a new foreign teacher can be an arduous and time consuming process. Especially when they're not prepared for it.


I wasn't referring to hagwons, of course.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Medical testing is immoral and unethical????
We are supposed to have some sort of education, since when have medical procedures been capable of immorality. Please for my benefit how exactly has any one been harmed by this testing. Why is the testing not scientific, and who considers it unscientific.

This just boggles my mind.
Its a simple procedure. If you are single and have a normal sex life it is probably a good thing.
The U.N is a non elected body, that really has no mandate to determine the immigration laws of any nation.
their actions and statements are not international law.
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Then leave korea if it is that bad. i had a pretty good time in Korea. Made some coin met interesting people, saw some interesting things, learned a lot actually.
Giving someone a job, a plane ticket and an apartment based on where they were born is definitely discrimination!!!

The requirements for Koreans to work as teachers has nothing to do with your situation. We are transient guest workers . Can not compare them.

A test for H.I.V. is a good thing. Don't you think it is a responsible thing to do. Doctors encourage getting tested.

E2 is not a race.


"And we have a winner, fiiiiish basket, and it's rollo by a nose"
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Testing to see if someone entering your country for a government job involving working with minors and receiving government health care has a potentially debilitating and lethal disease that requires expensive treatment? What a ludicrous idea.

The best way to stop the global spread of AIDS? Not test anyone and not require anyone to be tested. After all, they were cautious and rational enough to avoid contracting the disease.

I'd support AIDS testing for immigration both here and back home. But by all means, let's avoid stigmatizing people and trust them to be responsible enough to manage the disease on their own, responsibility and precaution being the hallmarks of people engaging in unprotected casual sex and IV drug use.

And yes, let's test the Koreans too. Test everybody, then it's not "discriminatory". The Korean govt could get an end to the grief of that end of the complaint and somebody in the medical products sector could make some loot off of AIDS testing kits.

I support the drug tests too, though for different reasons. I think its a great way to weed out complete idiots. If you can't get yourself clean a month beforehand, you probably shouldn't be moving overseas to teach kids. And again you can create jobs and revenue by selling testing kits and hiring testers. Who is harmed? People who can't go 30 days without a joint. And yes, test the Koreans too.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Medical testing is immoral and unethical????
We are supposed to have some sort of education, since when have medical procedures been capable of immorality. Please for my benefit how exactly has any one been harmed by this testing. Why is the testing not scientific, and who considers it unscientific.

This just boggles my mind.
Its a simple procedure. If you are single and have a normal sex life it is probably a good thing.
The U.N is a non elected body, that really has no mandate to determine the immigration laws of any nation.
their actions and statements are not international law.


Are you deliberately missing my point? Because I have to believe you are.

Their justifications for demanding the test are unethical and immoral. It's based on prejudice, not science and not a threat.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Testing to see if someone entering your country for a government job involving working with minors and receiving government health care has a potentially debilitating and lethal disease that requires expensive treatment? What a ludicrous idea.

The best way to stop the global spread of AIDS? Not test anyone and not require anyone to be tested. After all, they were cautious and rational enough to avoid contracting the disease.

I'd support AIDS testing for immigration both here and back home. But by all means, let's avoid stigmatizing people and trust them to be responsible enough to manage the disease on their own, responsibility and precaution being the hallmarks of people engaging in unprotected casual sex and IV drug use.

And yes, let's test the Koreans too. Test everybody, then it's not "discriminatory". The Korean govt could get an end to the grief of that end of the complaint and somebody in the medical products sector could make some loot off of AIDS testing kits.

I support the drug tests too, though for different reasons. I think its a great way to weed out complete idiots. If you can't get yourself clean a month beforehand, you probably shouldn't be moving overseas to teach kids. And again you can create jobs and revenue by selling testing kits and hiring testers. Who is harmed? People who can't go 30 days without a joint. And yes, test the Koreans too.


The people who pushed for the test to become mandatory will never advocate for the testing of Koreans. Koreans would never have AIDS. And if they did, it's because they did some very un-Korean things with one of those filthy foreigners so they deserve what they get.

You need to remember that the test is not coming from a place of public safety, it's coming from a place of fear and racism. You're saying 'let's be rational about this' and forgetting that the push for the test came from an irrational mindset.
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that teachers on E-2 visas are HIV tested, drug tested, and have to provide a clean criminal background check. It provides documented proof that foreigners on E-2 visas have the lowest rate of HIV and are the least criminal demographic group in South Korea.

However, I don't understand the logic of HIV testing English teachers when workers on E-6 visas haven't been HIV tested since 2010. The E-6 visa includes the many thousands of comfort women the Koreans traffick here into sex slavery each year. These women are forced to have bareback sex with many different Korean and foreign men each night, but nobody seems to care if the E-6 workers are HIV tested. Yet, English teachers are sent for mandatory HIV tests one, two, or three times a year depending on the school.

It's no wonder the documented HIV rate in Korea has doubled in the past five years. They can't blame it on us. We have been tested time and time again. I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I would bet the actual rate of HIV in South Korea is much, much, much higher than the official number. But nobody knows because nobody gets tested except for the foreign staff at Wonderland or CDI who just got tested a few months ago but have to get tested yet again. The adjosshi who creampies several prostitutes a month? There's no mandatory HIV test for him or the women.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EZE wrote:
I like that teachers on E-2 visas are HIV tested, drug tested, and have to provide a clean criminal background check. It provides documented proof that foreigners on E-2 visas have the lowest rate of HIV and are the least criminal demographic group in South Korea.

However, I don't understand the logic of HIV testing English teachers when workers on E-6 visas haven't been HIV tested since 2010. The E-6 visa includes the many thousands of comfort women the Koreans traffick here into sex slavery each year. These women are forced to have bareback sex with many different Korean and foreign men each night, but nobody seems to care if the E-6 workers are HIV tested. Yet, English teachers are sent for mandatory HIV tests one, two, or three times a year depending on the school.

It's no wonder the documented HIV rate in Korea has doubled in the past five years. They can't blame it on us. We have been tested time and time again. I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I would bet the actual rate of HIV in South Korea is much, much, much higher than the official number. But nobody knows because nobody gets tested except for the foreign staff at Wonderland or CDI who just got tested a few months ago but have to get tested yet again. The adjosshi who creampies several prostitutes a month? There's no mandatory HIV test for him or the women.


Once again, expecting this test to be applied in any sort of rational way when it was never intended to. It's sole purpose is to stigmatize foreign teachers.

Drug testing I don't have a problem with. A lot of jobs in the States require drug testing or require that you submit to one if they request it. But if they only apply it to foreigners in teaching positions and not all teachers, it becomes a racist thing, once more.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Missing the point of your post? no actually I am belittling your post. A medical check is a violation of human rights????? What about blood pressure or temperature, lets set humanity free,lets ban them all.

In a world where rape torture , starvation are all inflicted on people because they differ in some way. I find calling a harmless and useful medical test a violation of human rights a bit overboard. I mean that extra three minutes to get the test administered is sure not equal to being slowly beaten to death.

But and i mean this in good faith and in a spirit of trying to help you

E2 is not a race

Please before posting anymore find out what words mean before posting.

i am still waiting for any report evidence that says that testing for HIV is bad or is not scientific.
.

You are not slaves, and your best way of protesting this is to leave Korea. That's simple. .
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
.

I'd support AIDS testing for immigration both here and back home...

And yes, let's test the Koreans too.




Except while Immigration has the power to require foreigners to get tested...they don't have the power to require the locals (Koreans to get tested).

The latter is not within the purview of Immigration.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Missing the point of your post? no actually I am belittling your post. A medical check is a violation of human rights????? What about blood pressure or temperature, lets set humanity free,lets ban them all.

In a world where rape torture , starvation are all inflicted on people because they differ in some way. I find calling a harmless and useful medical test a violation of human rights a bit overboard. I mean that extra three minutes to get the test administered is sure not equal to being slowly beaten to death.

But and i mean this in good faith and in a spirit of trying to help you

E2 is not a race

Please before posting anymore find out what words mean before posting.

i am still waiting for any report evidence that says that testing for HIV is bad or is not scientific.
.

You are not slaves, and your best way of protesting this is to leave Korea. That's simple. .


Ah, I see now. You're not slow-witted, you're just stupid. Very well, carry on.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop comparing your situation with the citizens of Korea!! There is the problem. You are not a Korean citizen, you are a transient temporary worker. How the nation of Korea treats its own citizens is not your concern. You are trying to compare apples to rocket launchers. Your situation and your job are not comparable to a Korean nationals position.

Different does not mean discrimination. It means different. You are treated differently because your situation is different.

When your family and you have paid taxes for decades when you have served in the Korean armed forces when you have the ties to the country that native Koreans have , ties that umbilical, perhaps you should be treated differently than a young westerner coming to Korea for a year or so.
Their is just no equivalency between your position and koreans.

if you feel strongly about this leave. People leave Korea everyday. No biggie.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So all of those F-series visa holders who just don't happen to be paying taxes for ages and ages to Korea when they don't happen to be Korean citizens and also didn't happen to be serving in the Korean armed forces because they, again, don't happen to be Korean citizens were exempted from getting the test for the exact same job as the E-series holders for what reason again?

When the reason for the different treatment is based on race then, yes, it is racism.
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