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HIV/AIDS Tests as a Proxy for RacialDiscrimination?
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
"Reasonable discrimination" there you go, thanks for quoting that.

Racism...nope.

Reasonable discrimination...sure.

Now, shall we explain for the slow ones the difference between a sponsored foreign worker and a resident or citizen when it comes labor rights, immigration issues?

oh and those ethnic Koreans that were "excluded" from testing as those who have Korean ancestry or even parents who are citizens of Korea...but again..why bother about the details!

I mean this is pretty elemental but hey you never know for those late finishers...


Nobody is disputing the fact that ethnic Koreans have Korean ancestry or even parents who are citizens of Korea. What we're saying is it doesn't make a person less of a risk of having or transmitting HIV.

For example, the star of The World's Biggest Anal Gangbang was born in South Korea to a South Korean mother, but she has American citizenship. She is HIV positive, and if she ever decides to teach English in South Korea, she won't have to be tested for HIV since she has Korean ancestry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooke_Ashley
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
"Reasonable discrimination" there you go, thanks for quoting that.

Racism...nope.

Reasonable discrimination...sure.

Now, shall we explain for the slow ones the difference between a sponsored foreign worker and a resident or citizen when it comes labor rights, immigration issues?

oh and those ethnic Koreans that were "excluded" from testing as those who have Korean ancestry or even parents who are citizens of Korea...but again..why bother about the details!

I mean this is pretty elemental but hey you never know for those late finishers...


Racism(definition):
1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination

I suggest you click on the original link and give it a read, there are about 64 pages.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more time.

korean is not a race.

E2 visa is not a race!!


But for those obsessed with the behavior of Koreans and those that think they can read korean minds by all means carry on!!

I am at a loss. I mean you keep comparing apples and oranges, and assume you understand everything that goes on with Korean government decisions
You can not answer a simple question of Why is this test so onerous in the first place?

The answer that i am getting is that you have some special insight into the workings of all korean government officials minds.

It is your choice to be a victim!!

The over the top rhetoric about human rights violations is offputting to say the least.

State clearly how the testing causes you distress emotionally, physically, psychologically or other. Not some mumbo jumbo about , how you "Know it is based on racism" . You dont KNOW that.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:35 pm; edited 7 times in total
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rollo, there is no mind reading necessary when South Korean government officials have publicly stated that it is "reasonable discrimination" to exempt "ethnic Koreans" in accordance with their "authority and policy to favor ethnic Koreans."

Clearly, the South Korean government has openly admitted to discrimination based on ethnicity.

To the South Korean government, it is "reasonable discrimination" for the HIV positive Korean-American star of The World's Biggest Anal Gangbang to theoretically be able to come and teach English in South Korea without having to take an HIV test, but I have had to pass three different HIV tests for the South Korean government in the past 17 months even though I'm a citizen of the same country as HIV positive Korean-American Brooke Ashley. The difference is being made because of our different ethnic backgrounds, not because of our common nationality and citizenship.

I'm not complaining about having to pass an HIV test in order to get a work visa. I'm glad we do, because it's good for people to be tested and also because it provides evidence to refute the accusations that we are primary culprits of the growing HIV problem in Korea. I'm fine with being tested, but it is ignorant and racist for ethnic Koreans to be exempt based on ethnicity.

HIV tests are a good thing, but the way Koreans consider it a "foreigner disease" is going to hurt them in the long run the same way my homeland, the USA, was hurt because of the way HIV was considered a "gay disease" throughout the 1980s and early 90s. A lot of people had a false sense of security, which caused the disease to catch Magic Johnson, Brooke Ashley, and countless other heterosexual Americans with their pants down. Now, we know better, but our ignorance in the 80s and 90s hurt us, and the Koreans are apparently going to have to learn it the hard way also, instead of learning from our mistakes.

Everyone should be tested. I should be HIV tested because I'm a human being, not because I'm ethnically non-Korean.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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earthquakez



Joined: 10 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
One more time.

E2 is not a race.

Again you compare yourself to a citizen of korea. You are not and do not have the burdens , the obligations of those people. You have different ones.

There is a reason that health tests are given to foreign workers in all countries to prevent the spread of disease. Also to not add a burden to the national healthcare system. That is something you seem to be missing

but thinking that E2 is a race. I am just not sure???

Once again you are always free to leave. Or you can continue to be a victim of the terrible koreans who gave you a job and an apartment, for being a part time tutor.


Laughing One more time - you're certainly showing an oddball persistence in ignoring logic and thinking that if you keep repeating something again and again it makes it true. Well done, sunshine - you've certainly become the screaming adjusshi of the cafe. You know, the kind of person who thinks that he who screams the loudest wins the argument.

The only people claiming that "E2 is a race" are the Koreans responsible for this policy as well as those illogical Koreans who actively support this racially tinged policy in their nasty little chatrooms or sometimes in workplaces where we work etc.

You sound like a complete twit screaming here that 'E-2 is NOT A RACE' because the fact is it's Korean policy that's making the link so foreigners are arguing against it on the Koreans' own terms.

I presume you're an adult but it's hard to see that when you keep on that childish treadmill. But I suppose if you didn't keep repeating yourself in that way, you'd have to admit you are wrong and are misrepresenting what's being said here.

Those of Korean ethnicity aren't tested for HIV - automatically establishing a racial heirarchy of pure Korean blood over the probable HIV tainted blood of those nasty non Koreans. Yes, there is no such thing as the Korean race - they are an ethnic group - but their constitution, education, political and social institutions are based on their mistaken notion that they are 'a race'.

Therefore their actions here are inherently racist. I don't object to the HIV testing but I do object to posters here who assert obvious falsehoods to exonerate a racist policy.

You've already made a fool of yourself and had your argument cut to ribbons by other posters including the one who pointed out that under the current policy an HIV positive gypo could legally work as an E-2 instructor. Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every country has different requirements for foreign labor vice their citizens/residents.

I think Korea should simply put the HIV test as a part of visa issuance and have the testing done in the applicants country as a part of the visa approval process for any teacher (read any) that will work with kids.

Oh and again: discrimination..sure, racism...nope.

But that debate can rage on forever so lets kindly agree to disagree if that is possible.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Equake. You still think that E2 is a race. Not all E2's are of the same race or ethnic group.

but i love the insults.

Like a little child shrieking i would say.

but you take yourselves so seriously. tutors playing hangman.

Not one of the questions I have poised has been answered.

Not one.

Just name calling. Of course i assume name calling is not just your immaturity showing but your lack of education.

The policy may or may not be wisely applied but medical screenings are a routine part of entry into most all countries to work there. i am curious other than your inflated sense of importance, why this one is such a burden.

Maybe because many or most of you do not know what an arena virus is. I mean E quake thinks that Korean is a race and that all e2's are of the same ethnicity. Besides his tantrum. He probably thinks that AIDS can be cured or that this virus cannot mutate.

But health issues besides , answer the question what is so bad about being tested?

Once again, If it is so bad, you can leave, your posting seems to represent a very frustrated and angry person. Perhaps you should leave and get some sort of help. Sorry about your emotional problems e quiver.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:


While almost all E-2 holders are non-Koreans they make up only a small percentage of all expats here. A racist policy would target ALL expats rather than a small subsection of one group. This is based on VISA and not race.

Discriminatory yes.

Racist no.

so, according to your reasoning, immigration policy is disciminatory, but not racist, because it doesn't target ALL expats, but only a subsection of one small group...

and it WOULD be considered racist if it targeted ALL expats and not just a subsection.

doesn't it then follow that the MOE regulations ARE racist because they do target ALL expats within their jurisdiction? according to your reasoning...

just checking Very Happy

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
.

I'd support AIDS testing for immigration both here and back home...

And yes, let's test the Koreans too.




Except while Immigration has the power to require foreigners to get tested...they don't have the power to require the locals (Koreans to get tested).

The latter is not within the purview of Immigration.


and while korean citizens are not under the jurisdiction of immigration, korean teachers ARE under the jurisdiction of the MOE. Very Happy

if i could i would change my user name to 'hammer'...
because i just nailed it!
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EZE wrote:
[
It's the South Korean government who considers Koreans to be a distinct racial group.

From the article:

The MOJ’s new measures for E-2 visa holders, announced just four days after this meeting, reflected the position advocated by the group of requiring E-2 visa holders to be subject to HIV and drug tests. The MOJ’s decision to exclude foreign teachers with Korean ethnicity from the HIV and drug test requirements (as well as Korean citizen teachers who were already exempt), a move that the MOJ described as “reasonable discrimination” in accordance with “our authority and policy to favor ethnic Koreans,” also resembles the position advocated by the group, whose leader has said that ethnic Korean teachers should be able to avoid these tests since “treating brethren of the Republic of Korea like foreigners would be unreasonable.”

In other words, the MOJ exempted "ethnic Korean" foreigners from HIV tests, and required HIV tests only for foreigners who aren't ethnic Koreans. This strongly indicates the decision was based on ethnicity, not nationality or citizenship.


(Let's use capitals this time and see if people get it.)

Again wrong.

The MOJ DID NOT require HIV tests only for foreigners who aren't ethnic Koreans. That is utterly untrue.
They required tests ONLY FOR E-2 visa holders (who make up a very small percentage of foreigners here).

Now if the tests WERE required for all foreigners then yes it would indicate the decision was based on ethnicity. But anyway it is irrelevant because the tests are now required for all foreign teachers regardless of visa or ethnicity.
That section in the article quoted above is from 2007. Nothing like using out-dated information to make one's point.


Here's something from 2009 (From KBS)


http://koreabridge.net/post/expat-teachers-face-more-visa-hoops-korea-e-and-f-holders-3wm


Quote:
Currently there are 15,400 native speaking instructors at hagwons in Korea.

Among these, 10% or 1,500 people are overseas Korean F-4 visa holders who do not need to submit criminal record checks which include a drug test certificate.

Ministry of Education, Science and Technology plans to confirm whether native speaking instructors working at well-known Seoul-area hagwons [are taking drugs via] a drug test when they are newly hired or when they renew their contracts, regardless of their visa status.


(bolding mine)


And part of the revised hakwon law which took place in 2011.


http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2011/12/2011-amendments-to-hagwon-law.html
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About what i thought. A bunch of misinformed malcontents, frustrated that they have trouble adapting to living overseas.

They claim a human rights violation when they can not even define what a human right is.

It is NOT unreasonable for Koreans to ask for medical tests for transient temporary workers. It is not unreasonable for koreans to ask for certain medical tests for any people that work with children. Nor is it wrong for them to ask for a criminal record check a drug test would also be an indicator of criminal behavior.

One of the interesting things to come out of this thread is that the complainers do not even know what medical tests that Koreans are required to undergo.

The medical community as a whole wants more testing!! The H.I.V. virus does not have human rights its passage between populations should be controlled to some extent. Thats common sense.

if you want to change the attitudes of koreans toward foreign teachers try improving class room skills, less drunkeness, bathing more often.
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Lucas



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And yes, let's test the Koreans too. Test everybody, then it's not "discriminatory". The Korean govt could get an end to the grief of that end of the complaint and somebody in the medical products sector could make some loot off of AIDS testing kits.



The largest problem here in Korea is Korean men going to the various sex establishments in and around Korea and on 'business trips' to Cambodia/Philippines/Thailand ect............

'Most' of them have no idea to 'rubber up' (not that this can stop all STD's anyway....)

Then they come home and pass it on to their wives...... Rolling Eyes

They should give out free testing kits to wives in E-mart, that they can post off anonymously.....

I'd be willing to bet the STD rate is Korea is quite high!
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:14 pm; edited 7 times in total
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earthquakez



Joined: 10 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="rollo"]About what i thought. A bunch of misinformed malcontents, frustrated that they have trouble adapting to living overseas.

They claim a human rights violation when they can not even define what a human right is.

It is NOT unreasonable for Koreans to ask for medical tests for transient temporary workers. It is not unreasonable for koreans to ask for certain medical tests for any people that work with children. Nor is it wrong for them to ask for a criminal record check a drug test would also be an indicator of criminal behavior.

One of the interesting things to come out of this thread is that the complainers do not even know what medical tests that Koreans are required to undergo.
The medical community as a whole wants more testing!! The H.I.V. virus does not have human rights its passage between populations should be controlled to some extent. Thats common sense.

if you want to change the attitudes of koreans toward foreign teachers try improving class room skills, less drunkeness, bathing more often.[/quote]

Laughing Aha, the last resort of the bigot whose arguments have been cut to ribbons. The pieces of your tattered rantings and net screeching lie all around you.

When all else fails, slag off the foreigners as drunk, dirty, etc. You're a big man/woman, eh, sunshine! No wonder you're perpetually expatriated - you wouldn't be able to function very well at all in any western society with established legal systems and social sanctions against ethnic/racial bigotry.

The test of whether a country takes these things seriously is what kind of laws they have and how they take action against the racists that are present in its society.

You are aligning yourself here with racist policies as practised by Koreans precisely because THEY regard themselves as a race despite the fact that they are not. I am starting to wonder how you ever got a visa for anywhere because it's clear you're not the full quid.

Good luck in China spouting your thinly disguised Korean superiority complex. I couldn't care less about your Korean ethnicity as a matter of course but when you keep posting your thickheaded, childish and bigoted racial propaganda then yeah, it's seen as a problem.
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