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HIV/AIDS Tests as a Proxy for RacialDiscrimination?
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jennykwon



Joined: 19 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racial discrimination, violation of human rights, blah blah blah. Koreans do what they want in Korea, it's their country; if you don't like it, go somewhere else.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think i get it earth tremble. You are a litle insecure, in a very strange culture in a shaky job situation.

Not really anything you can do about it. very frustrating, makes you very angry.

so i think being a victim is your way of excusing your lack of success at what ever, your job socially .

Lower your expectations of yourself. You got free airplane tickets, free housing, a chance to learn about another culture. all for tutoring some pretty nice kids.

I notice that no one can tell me what is so intrinsically bad about the testing other than it is "racist"" but it seems that most of the posters do not even know what that word means. They seem to think that E2 is a race or Korean is a race.

You Sad litle tremble!! Learn some korean, get out and about, the bathing thing i wrote, well have you seen or smelled some of the expat crowd in korea. I mean damn!! But continue on being the victim all you want. No be sad little Tremble!!
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jennykwon wrote:
Racial discrimination, violation of human rights, blah blah blah. Koreans do what they want in Korea, it's their country; if you don't like it, go somewhere else.


So, you're cool with the Korean government telling you that they'll follow Korean law, including their treaty obligations, and then not following Korean law.

What about Blacks back in the 1960s in the South? Hey, they didn't have to ride the bus if they didn't want to sit in the back. They didn't have to eat at the diners in town. They didn't even have to drink water in public!

Sadly, you'll probably not grasp the point of this post.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
I notice that no one can tell me what is so intrinsically bad about the testing other than it is "racist"" but it seems that most of the posters do not even know what that word means. They seem to think that E2 is a race or Korean is a race.


Well, you're not listening, then. It's not just the issue of testing that's racist. The racism is in the exemption from testing and also in the stated reason for testing one certain segment of the foreigner population in the first place. And as far as Korea's concerned, Korean is a race.

You may now continue with your blather.
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goreality



Joined: 09 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think having specific requirements for specific visa is a problem, but mandatory testing of non sex workers for HIV is wrong.
The Korean government, after being urged by some officials and a couple agencies at the UN, has promised to no longer require foreign nationals to get HIV checks to obtain work visas.
The requirement for E2 visa holders to get HIV checks to work in public schools on an annual basis is clear evidence that Korea is not living up to global expectations regarding attitudes toward HIV. They have stopped short of and avoided taking it to constitutional court because they know the requirement will either not stand up or a ruling not ending all tests will be an international embarrassment.
Now one can say that the test isn't mandatory because we don't have to work here. This would be missing the point, the issue is if we want to work here the HIV test is mandatory.
I understand the argument that HIV is bad, a public threat and a costly strain on public health systems, but one doesn't solve these issues by testing a very small group of foreigners for HIV. It's obviously some backwards thinking symbolic gesture to keep the local population content at the expense of properly educating them about diseases.
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jennykwon



Joined: 19 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Racial discrimination, violation of human rights, blah blah blah. Koreans do what they want in Korea, it's their country; if you don't like it, go somewhere else."

"So, you're cool with the Korean government telling you that they'll follow Korean law, including their treaty obligations, and then not following Korean law.

What about Blacks back in the 1960s in the South? Hey, they didn't have to ride the bus if they didn't want to sit in the back. They didn't have to eat at the diners in town. They didn't even have to drink water in public!

Sadly, you'll probably not grasp the point of this post."


Korean law is entirely up to Koreans; it's their nation. What's not clear about that?
Blacks in the 1960s were US citizens; you aren't a Korean citizen. Are you able to grasp this concept?
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jennykwon wrote:
Korean law is entirely up to Koreans; it's their nation. What's not clear about that?
Blacks in the 1960s were US citizens; you aren't a Korean citizen. Are you able to grasp this concept?


Good grief, I was right. You completely failed to grasp the incredibly obvious point.

Yes, Blacks in the South are US citizens. They could've just moved out of the South to another part of the US and still have been citizens and not have to deal with the racist crud in the South. Your asinine "advice" to leave if people don't like being treated illegally is no different than telling a Black southerner to move out of the South.

Korean law is based on the Korean constitution. Part of that constitution is that the government of Korea will adhere to the treaties it has signed. Wherever I go, I expect to not only be subject to the local law but also that the government will also abide by its law. My only option if I dislike being treated illegally (in violation of the Korean constitution, in violation of Korean law, or in violation of treaties to which Korea is a signatory) should not be "shut up and leave." I should have recourse under the law. And, this may surprise you, but yes, people who are treated illegally, even foreigners, have such recourse.

But, I see that you don't have a clue about Korean law. Do a solid and bone up on that before you spout more nonsense.

Got it now?
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another bout of temper tantrum name calling!!!

Wow ! Cali , unless blacks in the 60's were forced to take an HIV test for korean immigration , i really dont think that analogy is apt.

in fact comparing your situation to the systematic and brutal violations of rights and dignity that blacks endured in the 60's is rather disgusting and says somethng about your mindset and it is not pretty

You really think that being given a job, an apartment and being asked to take a blood test is in any way like being denied the right to vote to being beaten by Bull Connors thugs. To having all dignity and freedom stripped from you.

You really think that being asked for a sample of blood is in some way like being trapped in a system where your child is denied an education where you lay in fear at night of the police or the Klan.

Wow!! Thanks for proving my point. Mental illness and an amplified sense of persecution.

You are still arguing that koreans and E2s are a race. You are also arguing that korean autonomy over there on affairs is racist. ARE YOu a TEACher????

Countries have the right to make their own rules. That is not racist.

mental issues when challenged resort to name calling.
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jennykwon wrote:
Racial discrimination, violation of human rights, blah blah blah. Koreans do what they want in Korea, it's their country; if you don't like it, go somewhere else.


True. But when in Rome, do as the Romans. I hear Koreans complain ad nauseum about what Japanese leaders say in Japan about Koreans, so I'm going to discuss what Korean leaders say in Korea about me.

I'm not going to go so far as to protest obnoxiously through a loudspeaker, pull down my pants in public, draw and quarter a pig, or cut off my finger in protest. But I will express my opinions in this internet thread. If you don't like it, you may want to go to a different thread or website.

earthquakez wrote:
When all else fails, slag off the foreigners as drunk, dirty, etc.


Rollo and other Koreans accusing foreign teachers of being the alcoholic problem in Korea is very similar to the HIV issue. Koreans are using psychological projection as a mental defense mechanism to convince themselves that their own drinking habits aren't a societal ill.

If in fact a lot of sexpats and alcoholics are coming to South Korea, it's probably the South Korean culture of alcohol and sex that attracts them. If someone likes 3 a.m. rub and tugs, liquor in grocery stores, and open-minded women in mini-skirts and booty shorts everywhere, they're probably not going to want to work in Saudi Arabia. So the types of expats a country attracts says a lot about the people in the host country itself.
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earthquakez



Joined: 10 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
Another bout of temper tantrum name calling!!!

Wow ! Cali , unless blacks in the 60's were forced to take an HIV test for korean immigration , i really dont think that analogy is apt.

in fact comparing your situation to the systematic and brutal violations of rights and dignity that blacks endured in the 60's is rather disgusting and says somethng about your mindset and it is not pretty

You really think that being given a job, an apartment and being asked to take a blood test is in any way like being denied the right to vote to being beaten by Bull Connors thugs. To having all dignity and freedom stripped from you.

You really think that being asked for a sample of blood is in some way like being trapped in a system where your child is denied an education where you lay in fear at night of the police or the Klan.

Wow!! Thanks for proving my point. Mental illness and an amplified sense of persecution.

You are still arguing that koreans and E2s are a race. You are also arguing that korean autonomy over there on affairs is racist. ARE YOu a TEACher????

Countries have the right to make their own rules. That is not racist.

mental issues when challenged resort to name calling.
Laughing

Go Cali and EZE!

Your logic is proving incredibly traumatic for rollo who outed himself as ethnically Korean by his eager bashing of non Koreans as drunk, dirty and needing to take HIV tests while of course bisexual Korean men on the downlow and married het Korean men using prostitutes not tested for HIV from 3rd world countries regularly engage in risky behaviour in a society that doesn't disclose real statistics about HIV infection among Koreans.

As for Rollo talking about Black people and the racial discrimination/violence etc they faced in the US, and how apparently we can't use the example of history where racism was sanctioned by the law, majority of the society etc, well, sunshine, I'd like to talk about my own family's experience.

I am descended from African slaves taken to the Caribbean on one side of my family. This side of my family came to the UK when it was Great Britain and still had the mentality of the British Empire, and blacks were segregated in a defacto style even tho a number of them had skills such as nursing skills etc.

If there had been a special sexually transmitted disease test administered to all people of colour (yes that's what we say in the UK now and it is acceptable, not racist language) such as blacks, Indians, Pakistanis, etc, who came from the British Commonwealth countries and nobody else blinked an eyelid because after all, the culture/social conditions were different, it would not have made the racist motivation behind it any less racist.

I look white although I have some features like very curly hair, well above average height and a typical broad nose that are common among black people. The majority of my cousins on that side of the family both in the UK and Caribeean are distinctly black.

As a person who can identify as black if he wants to, I call rubbish on your screeching at people who raise valid points about racist attitudes in various times at different locations throughout the world.

My black family had racist language and actions directed against them in their first decades in the UK and some of them knew what it was like to be threatened by skinhead bovver boys just like some Pakistanis I know went through the fear of their parents' shops being smashed up by the same type of people.

As somebody with around 60 percent of friends from non white English backgrounds I can tell you that none of them think the E-2 visa HIV test is just some normal procedure with no racist connotations.

As they understand (they're not dimwits in denial like you), the perception here from Koreans is that they ARE a race and so in fact the HIV test is a case of what we call 'soft' racial discrimination - that is discrimination dressed up as some necessary procedure but of course targeted against those who don't have the 'same blood' as Koreans.
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earthquakez



Joined: 10 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jennykwon wrote:
"Racial discrimination, violation of human rights, blah blah blah. Koreans do what they want in Korea, it's their country; if you don't like it, go somewhere else."

"So, you're cool with the Korean government telling you that they'll follow Korean law, including their treaty obligations, and then not following Korean law.

What about Blacks back in the 1960s in the South? Hey, they didn't have to ride the bus if they didn't want to sit in the back. They didn't have to eat at the diners in town. They didn't even have to drink water in public!

Sadly, you'll probably not grasp the point of this post."

Korean law is entirely up to Koreans; it's their nation. What's not clear about that?
Blacks in the 1960s were US citizens; you aren't a Korean citizen. Are you able to grasp this concept?


Laughing Another dimwit in denial.

Jenny, if you're Korean (gypo, etc), I take it then as you consider Koreans have the absolute sovereign right to make laws that discriminate on the basis of what Koreans see as 'race', you won't mind if my country or other western countries ensure that only Koreans have HIV tests every time they enter the UK, US, Canada, Australia, NZ, South Africa or wherever?

After all, prostitution conducted by Koreans both as traffickers and sellers is higher for Koreans in those countries than it is for most other ethnic groups. I mean, after all we have the right to defend our country from Koreans who have little public education about safe sex, HIV etc and live in a society where literally there is almost a brothel on every urban corner.

So I'm assuming because of your views that you don't mind having an HIV test when you go to western countries because it's fair to single you out because of the risks of contracting HIV that distinct Korean groups run?
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

earthquakez wrote:
[q
As they understand (they're not dimwits in denial like you), the perception here from Koreans is that they ARE a race and so in fact the HIV test is a case of what we call 'soft' racial discrimination - that is discrimination dressed up as some necessary procedure but of course targeted against those who don't have the 'same blood' as Koreans.


Speaking of being in denial...

You are aware that since the 2011 revisions to the relevant law even those who have the "same blood" are tested? I did post links to this up above.

Just checking.
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sligo



Joined: 15 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problems with criminal checks for working with minors, i just wish it would extend to all who work with minors, all the Koreans as well as the migrant workers. That goes for every check to maintain a safe environment. After all, the videos on youtube of teachers beating kids never involve migrant teachers.

My mnain wory with the AIDS test is: "Does the government take the golden opportunity to register the DNA of all foreigners whilst testing for AIDS" Just think, they have the oportunity to have a DNA database of every foreigner and details of where they can be found at any time. Everytime a crime is coimmitted, all they have to do is check against the database. Are we all suspects before the crime? Guilty until proven innocent?
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sligo wrote:
My mnain wory with the AIDS test is: "Does the government take the golden opportunity to register the DNA of all foreigners whilst testing for AIDS" Just think, they have the oportunity to have a DNA database of every foreigner and details of where they can be found at any time. Everytime a crime is coimmitted, all they have to do is check against the database. Are we all suspects before the crime? Guilty until proven innocent?


if you fear that they are taking a sample of your DNA then the least of your worries should be them using it to compile a database of all foreigners to check against crime.LOL you should be more concerned that they use it to clone you! hahaha. they have the technology. Shocked

and the funniest thing about this posible distopian world scenario is that the majority of foreign english teachers who post on dave's would be more worried about the clones taking over their jobs or driving down salaries than the prospect of there being several yous walking around.

there will, no doubt, be an element who take a stand and claim human rights violation. but their cries of injustice will be defeated by these facts...1. they don't clone ALL foreigners. and 2.those that are cloned do not even collectively belong to a single species, much less a single race. because they also clone sheep and toy poodles that glow in the dark. hence... IT'S NOT RACISM!!!!!!!!
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its worse than that. they give the DNA to the Venusian elders who control the governments of the world. by controlling the hagwons they control the secret to why Korea is the only nation with four seasons. This gives the power to alter the weather, making it warmer which means korean girls wear short skirts for a longer period of the year. which makes the blood leave the brains of male expat teachers and they become the hapless vassals of the adjosshi Lords.
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