Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Intellectual theft in Korea - The Economist strikes back.
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about korean co-teachers copying all my games and lesson plans?
Then gossiping amongst eachother that foreign teachers are inept and unqualified?


Copying foreign products without compensation is part of Korean nationalism. Just rip them off and claim them as your own...because non-koreans are not worthy of basic rights.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote:
Ah I don't know where it is, but I used to do photo research for a magazine, and there's a "for profit" clause that says that (paraphrasing) if it is for profit, it is not categorized as education. I'm sorry, but I haven't done that kind of work in years, so don't have the websites linked anywhere. I'd be interested in rules have changed, though.


Again, as I posted earlier (and there is no suggestion either way in the article):

IF the textbook had been sold "open market" (you could go to an outside bookstore and buy a copy even if you weren't a student at the hagwon) then fair use does not apply.

IF the "textbook" was strictly used "in house" in a properly licensed (by the MOE) educational institution (which is what most legal hagwons are) then fair use probably applies.

.


So I completely rip off a restaurant chain's recipe, even using the same name for the product. I don't sell it in stores or anything, but if you come to my restaurant and eat in, you can order the product.

The texts may be in house, but any Kim, Cho, or Lee can sign up and become a student. It's a for-profit business masquerading as a school.

I'm fairly sure the Economist knew the laws regarding copyright before starting this case.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gnawbert



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good. I hope The Economist wins. I'm all for fair use, but a private for profit educational institute should pay to license the content they use to make their own profits.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What about korean co-teachers copying all my games and lesson plans?
Then gossiping amongst eachother that foreign teachers are inept and unqualified?


Copying foreign products without compensation is part of Korean nationalism. Just rip them off and claim them as your own...because non-koreans are not worthy of basic rights.


It's probably in your contract that anything you produce for the school is their property. It's an industry norm I think. On a side note I remember some adult institutes in Italy used to photocopy Headway or whatever, put their logo on the front and pass them off as their own 'free' text book given to all the students who enrolled.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote:
ttompatz wrote:
NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote:
Ah I don't know where it is, but I used to do photo research for a magazine, and there's a "for profit" clause that says that (paraphrasing) if it is for profit, it is not categorized as education. I'm sorry, but I haven't done that kind of work in years, so don't have the websites linked anywhere. I'd be interested in rules have changed, though.


Again, as I posted earlier (and there is no suggestion either way in the article):

IF the textbook had been sold "open market" (you could go to an outside bookstore and buy a copy even if you weren't a student at the hagwon) then fair use does not apply.

IF the "textbook" was strictly used "in house" in a properly licensed (by the MOE) educational institution (which is what most legal hagwons are) then fair use probably applies.

.


So I completely rip off a restaurant chain's recipe, even using the same name for the product. I don't sell it in stores or anything, but if you come to my restaurant and eat in, you can order the product.

The texts may be in house, but any Kim, Cho, or Lee can sign up and become a student. It's a for-profit business masquerading as a school.

I'm fairly sure the Economist knew the laws regarding copyright before starting this case.


Recipes in a restaurant aren't covered under fair use.

Materials for educational use a classroom are specifically listed and even though a hagwon is a business for profit it is still properly licensed (by the MOE) as an educational facility and as such qualifies under the fair use provisions of international copyright laws.

AND

They may in fact be liable for copyright infringement but there wasn't enough information in the article to make a valid judgement either way - just speculation on our part but from what was written I wouldn't bet against the hagwon.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recipes might not, but using trademarked names is. That was my point.

I hope that the publication wins.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "meat" of the article:
wrote:
The Economist submitted photos to the court showing that the school had used its articles in its textbooks. They also reportedly used them for secondary content such as videos and promotional materials.

An official from the hagwon in question, however, told the Chosun Ilbo that while they did print out Economist articles for use in their advanced class and sell texts books with the articles internally ...
.

Not betting in favor of the Economist just yet.

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
liveinkorea316



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hagwon has no leg to stand on. It was obviously a TOEIC book and they got a good amount of the texts from THE ECONOMIST without bothering to put any time into it themself. The hagwon would have made up the questions though which would have taken some time.

Then they would have sold the book and made a profit. They did not need the book as course materials as there thousands upon thousands of such books available.

Every hagwon just wants to make their own to cut out the middle man (steal some content) and make money.

That is what they did. Stealing pure and simple. They deserve to be fined.

Notice they never defended themselves when asked. Still I don''t expect the wet bus ticket to hurt them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hagwon will get off.

It's just a matter of the Korean good ol' ajoshi network creating some laughable defense for them after a huge payoff.

Remember what happened when Korean downloaders were sued by the US porn industry. The Korean gov't said the file sharers could not be prosecuted for sharing something already illegal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RobertGR



Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: How much was copied? Reply with quote

Fair use not only depends on who is doing the copying and for what purpose but also, in practice, the quantity. I could probably use a copy of an article in my classroom but wholesale copying would get me in legal trouble.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International