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University Professors: what did you do after leaving Korea?
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Malislamusrex



Joined: 01 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I teach one Business English class but the other 2 are technical business skills. I'm not going to go into details, but you don't really need to know English to learn these skill and there is a demand for them. There are 8 profs in my department, I make 9. Technically I am an Assistant Prof. I'm going to start the PhD next year if everything works out.

Like you said, I have no idea what was going on. I think they just like the fact the students are happy.I know an MA and technical skills and industry experience aren't that great when I consider my colleagues.

PRagic wrote:
Wow, hard to believe they even put you up for tenure without the degree, publications, or service, unless they were just looking for a pissing contest with admin lol. That was doomed from the get-go, and they should have known that. Sounds more like they were putting you up to slide over into a tenure track position, and not actually for full tenure. You wouldn't have the requisite seniority to even go for that even if you did have your Ph.D. in hand.

When you do finish your Ph.D., they should at least be able to bring you on tenure track, then, and in the proper dicipline. They might be able to bring you on as a proper visiting assistant prof or visiting full time lecturer when you're ABD. You really can't be a visiting assistant prof unless you have your Ph.D., but administratively there are reasons they play fast and loose with that in English programs. That doesn't happen in other departments as far as I know. Can't. Don't know about your status, but sounds like they have you listed as an English instructor, which doesn't do much for the department in which you teach content. Would be nice to have that pay check when you're doing your dissertation. Once finished, you would improve the university's rankings, and if you're at a large school, that is considered pretty darn important.
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am ABD and was teaching an academic subject very closely related to my field of study. Yet, I could only dream of getting the tenure track treatment. And of course, I got booted out despite good student evaluations as the department had found fresh American PhDs (due in part to the worsening academic job market back in America).

Malislamusrex wrote:
I teach one Business English class but the other 2 are technical business skills. I'm not going to go into details, but you don't really need to know English to learn these skill and there is a demand for them. There are 8 profs in my department, I make 9. Technically I am an Assistant Prof. I'm going to start the PhD next year if everything works out.

Like you said, I have no idea what was going on. I think they just like the fact the students are happy.I know an MA and technical skills and industry experience aren't that great when I consider my colleagues.

PRagic wrote:
Wow, hard to believe they even put you up for tenure without the degree, publications, or service, unless they were just looking for a pissing contest with admin lol. That was doomed from the get-go, and they should have known that. Sounds more like they were putting you up to slide over into a tenure track position, and not actually for full tenure. You wouldn't have the requisite seniority to even go for that even if you did have your Ph.D. in hand.

When you do finish your Ph.D., they should at least be able to bring you on tenure track, then, and in the proper dicipline. They might be able to bring you on as a proper visiting assistant prof or visiting full time lecturer when you're ABD. You really can't be a visiting assistant prof unless you have your Ph.D., but administratively there are reasons they play fast and loose with that in English programs. That doesn't happen in other departments as far as I know. Can't. Don't know about your status, but sounds like they have you listed as an English instructor, which doesn't do much for the department in which you teach content. Would be nice to have that pay check when you're doing your dissertation. Once finished, you would improve the university's rankings, and if you're at a large school, that is considered pretty darn important.
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I'm With You



Joined: 01 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:
At any rate, this whole discussion reminds me of an experience I had when I had first started my doctorate. I was in an office talking to someone whom I had assumed was a professor. He had an office, all the books, taught classes, did research...the whole 9 yards. So then I was telling one of the newly tenured professors that I had recently spoken to Professor such-n-such about something. Whoa! He's NOT a professor, I was informed. He was finishing up his Ph.D. dissertation. They told me that peope assumed that he was a professor because he was older, but that he was an instructor. 'Don't be overheard calling him 'professor',' I was told. People get pissed.

Why? Going from instructor to assistant professor is a major step. Then going to associate professor is an accomplishment, and each step of the way comes with new responsibilities. FULL professor, including tenure, is an achievement, that generally takes years to build up to. At least 20-30 SSCI publications and book chapters, countless conference and invited talks, and often even a book figure into the research end. Service to the university and dicipline are also weighed heavily, including teaching record, curricula development, committee work, and involvement with students (undergrad AND grad). Then there are the professional service activities.

So OP, hopefully you can at least now understand why you should avoid using the term 'professor' at all costs. If you do, you'll just come across as someone who is totally clueless about the academic system from which you just came. At worse, if you defend your use of the title, you'll look disrespectful to the profession (and clueless). I think most people on this thread are just trying to save you the face. No, it really shouldn't be that much of a big deal. But when people spend years and years getting qualifications and achievements to earn use of the title, it should be obvious why some can be a little sensative when it is simply batted around. It took me a few years before I was comfortable with any of my students, including my grad and Ph.D. students, calling me 'professor'. That's the way it should be IMHO. I never took it for granted or as a given. It was earned.


And there it is.

Korea is a very hierarchical society and, therefore, Koreans are also very conscious of titles - e.g., Instructor, Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Professor. One of the first things Koreans do if they start speaking to to someone they don't know is to quickly try and get some sort of idea of who out ranks the other so they can adjust their language accordingly. Like the anecdote above points out, the locals are sensitive to such abuse and mistakes with titles.

Also, there is often a very complicated and drawn out confirmation process involved in hiring people for tenured, even tenure-track, positions at Korean universities. Applicants are reviewed and screened first at the department level, then the faculty level and then often at university level hearings where candidates are voted on. This confirmation process is even more complicated and drawn-out at national universities.

I know one guy who indicated on his CV that he was an Associate Professor at the university where he was teaching. He applied for a job at a big university and, when contacted for an interview, was questioned about his official title by the Dean. It tuns out that he was just a contract visiting instructor. He was booted from the hiring competition for, according to the Dean, "misrepresenting" his experience and falsifying information on his CV. The guy wisely changed the title on his resume to "Visiting Instructor".

So, OP, be careful about using and abusing the title, "Professor" here if you are applying at other universities. The foreign teachers may be fine with it, but many of the Korean academics won't be.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Op's probably got the message by now
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:
At any rate, this whole discussion reminds me of an experience I had when I had first started my doctorate. I was in an office talking to someone whom I had assumed was a professor. He had an office, all the books, taught classes, did research...the whole 9 yards. So then I was telling one of the newly tenured professors that I had recently spoken to Professor such-n-such about something. Whoa! He's NOT a professor, I was informed. He was finishing up his Ph.D. dissertation. They told me that peope assumed that he was a professor because he was older, but that he was an instructor. 'Don't be overheard calling him 'professor',' I was told. People get pissed.



If that happened in Korea, that's really odd. Although the translation of 전임강사 is 'full time instructor', it remains the lowest title of the 교수 ranks, and therefore those who hold the title are commonly referred to as 교수, albeit informally so. Look it up.

In any case, professor has different meanings in different countries and different languages. In French, for example, a professor ("professeur") can be a high school teacher.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, that was back in the US!
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