Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Clinton]

[joesp]

the most interesting thing about this thread is how it reveals the discrepancy between (a) our real experience and Western statistics about Korean wages and (b) the Korean version of the same statistics.

In (a) we know that most people are below 30,000 a year, and even 25,000 per year.

However, all we have to do is type in 한국평균연봉 (Korea average yearly salary) and the Korean news will give us inflated statistics. For example:

http://marke.tistory.com/1382 (which was chosen not because of the value of its sources, but because of its seeming representational features)

The above representational site says:

(stats at bottom of page) average yearly salary for Korean male in their 40s: 50,600,000
(stats at top of page) : average yearly salary : 35,000,000

The problems are (1) the stats they give are so drastically different, (2) I'm sure they discard irregular workers, students, the non-educated, the handicapped, women, etc.

I always have thought their failure to accurately report is because of a society that fails to see the truth, and that is always shooting for the stars. If in the US, everyone can become President ... in Korea, the common belief is that everybody can become or is rich. And so they have ended up with a society that ignores the truth and has a huge income gap that has only increased.

I have to agree that you can't trust a Korean talking about salary or money, generally, they always exaggerate and prop themselves up in some sly way.

[World Traveler]

[joesp]

I agree that they exclude everything that would bring their numbers down, yes (so yes, they will exclude: females, handicapped, irregular workers, students, part-time workers, foreigners working in factories, etc.). My cultural insight is that they do not tell you what was excluded and paint the picture of it being everybody is making that much, er, the average. So if you read the Korean stats, you will believe as most Koreans do that everybody is doing phenomenally well; meanwhile, they do not see the elderly living alone, the grandmother collecting cardboard, the number of irregular workers, etc. etc. The Korean news generally, is so pro-status quo a-la-Korean it makes one sick. They have such a warped perspective because of the warped news that feeds people's mis-perceptions.

The point of the article was not about ESL teacher salaries. The point of the article was revealed in this sentence:

[Seoulman69]

I've kept an eye on this thread but it seems no-one can provide a definitive answer as to how much is a decent wage in Korea. I guess it depends on your circumstances. I've been interested in this discussion because, if I'm perfectly honest, I worry about whether I could provide a decent life for my future wife and kids as an English teacher. Would we always be struggling to get by? Would we have to live in a dodgy area just so we can pay rent? It scares me that the life I can provide for my family might not be what they deserve.

[edwardcatflap]

[joesp]

The highest target I can see a foreigner setting for him/herself working in the English field is 5,000,000 a month. A Pagoda teacher can make that much during their busy season ... you will work 70 hours a week to do it, teaching 13 hours a day, but it can be done ...

my translator buddy also made 5,000,000 a month doing freelance translating ... but that was 30,000/hr * 45 hrs/week ... it really tired him out. He did that for 3 months, then quit ... now he has a salary at one company of 3.8

The foreigner doing English-related work (proofreading or teaching) should be making average of 25 ~ 30,000 per hour. We are not in a business-related field where our ability to earn is infinite ... nor are we owners of a company. So, to make 5,000,000 per month ... we have to work our tails off, but it can be done.

I do 4 hours of proofreading/translating a day and earn about 2.5 mill ... I'm happy with my working hours vs. income ratio

I will never drive a Harley or have an apartment in Seoul, but I'm happy enough with my Hyosung motorcycle

[fustiancorduroy]

[Jimskins]

Yeah fustian's right. I teach 21 hours a week (no evening or weekends, all taxed and legit) for 5 mil with all the prep for those classes done in my vacation time. But of course on the whole you need an F visa.

I think the 4 million a month an earlier poster mentioned is about right as a benchmark for being able to support a family. But I think the real issue is not how much you earn but how much you save. 2.5 may not be much but if youre saving 1.5 a year that's a nice chunk of change. Traditionally Koreans are a nation of savers so no matter how small the salary adjummas were always adept at making ends meet.

However this generation of Koreans is the opposite so there is trouble on the horizon. I'm lucky in that my wife is not materialistic at all, doesnt need a car, nice apartment or designer togs so we save about 4 mil a month. My brother in law on the other hand has what I would call a typical 'Gangnam Wife' who spunks all of his 5mil salary up the wall (admittedly he helps too). My mother in law complains that in the past year they have saved absolutely nothing and are actually sinking into debt.

It is becoming more expensive to live here but compared to the UK at least it's really easy to save. So I can believe most Koreans are earning 2.x a month because in most places (perhaps not Seoul ) you could have a kid and get by on that amount if you were really careful. And traditionally Koreans are/were.

[Weigookin74]

[Weigookin74]

[edwardcatflap]

[Seoulman69]

[sendittheemail]

As one poster to this thread said, getting reliable salary info from Koreans in Korea is somewhat of a challenge. The statistics you'll get for various jobs from various people vary WILDLY to say the least. It's almost impossible to get a grasp on anyone's actual salary.

After teaching adult students for several years, I've observed:

1. Younger people, working their first jobs, fresh out of Uni. tend to be more honest about their salaries, and by-and-large, they are not happy with what they get.

2. Many older men with families, men in their 40's or even 50's also grumble about not being able to support their families, and not being able to save for retirement on their current salaries. These are men with university educations, working skilled or semi-skilled jobs.

3. People working at Samsung, and the relatives of people working at Samsung almost always over-inflate the salaries earned at Samsung. As mentioned in several newspaper articles, some even cited in previous pages of this post, roughly 0.85% of all Samsung employees are making $100,000 a year or more. However, if you talk to someone working at Samsung, or someone who is married to someone working at Samsung, they will almost all, without exception, claim to be part of that 0.85%.

4. Women here almost universally exaggerate their husbands' salaries, and the financial status of their families. If you talk to a classroom full of ajummas, they love to brag about how much money their husbands make. Statistically speaking, 90% of what they say with regards to their family income are probably lies. If ajummas are to be believed in regards to their husbands salaries, then the entire married male workforce is clearing $100k a year.

5. I've had a few honest adult students talk candidly about their salaries. One guy, age 34, married, engineer, English-fluent, working at an American auto parts maker (Ford subsidiary) was very happy to be earning 4.0 million a month before taxes. He had 10 years of experience at the time.

Another was a female career public middle school teacher, age 35, married with children. She had 8 years of experience, and was jealous that some of her older co-workers made "2.5 million a month". She said that she would be quite happy to make 2.5 million a month, hinting that at the time, she didn't make nearly that much. She related that older male high school teachers earn the most out of all public school teaching staff.

The vast majority of adult students I taught (according to those who would talk candidly about salaries) made between 1.8 and 4.0 million per month before taxes. Of course, if you asked the ajummas, all of their husbands were making double, triple or quadrupole the national averages.

I had students tell me that flight attendants in Korea make 80 million won per year. I spotted a Chosun ilbo article advertising a flight attendant recruiting event at the Intercontinental Hotel in Seoul, with a starting salary of 2.2 million won per month, before taxes etc. There is a ~53 million won per year discrepancy between what people perceive, and what the reality is, largely because people who have these jobs help to perpetuate the lies about their salaries.

Salaries for certain jobs like salesmen, and doctors will vary extensively based on the amount of kickbacks or commissions they receive. A doctor can make 50-60 million won a year, while at the same time receiving 30-40 million in tax-free under the table kickbacks from drug companies to push their drugs on patients. Then you can consider people like plastic surgeons, who offer discounts when you pay in cash, for the express purpose of dodging taxes. So what they make in paper is never nearly as much as they really make. And what they claim to make to their friends is probably double or triple what they actually make.

[cheolsu]

http://cfile22.uf.tistory.com/image/155CB7375077AC012FAD60

This image shows the distribution of income, as well as average income by age. The average income for a man in his 20s is about 2.1 million won per month (or 25 million won, the Korean expresses this as 2499만원), but he can expect it to double to about 4 million won per month by the time he reaches his 40s and 50s.

The numbers for women are different, though. Women of all ages average just under 2 million won per month.

Roughly half of all wage earners make less than 2 million a month, it's true, but that includes women, who typically make a lot less for a number of reasons. Once again, it's worth bearing in mind that a salary of 2 million won per month is a median income, but it's not the median household income. The two are different here, as they are elsewhere in the developed world.

http://blog.daum.net/_blog/BlogTypeView.do?blogid=0UhVc&articleno=6&_bloghome_menu=recenttext#ajax_history_home

This link shows that a household income of 2 million won per month would rank in the poorest 30% of households. The median household income is a bit over 3 million won per month, while households making 5-6 million won per month rank in the richest 20%.

So, no, a Korean man doesn't have to make 4 million won per month just to be considered marriage material, because on average, he couldn't expect to make that until his 40s. Women might ideally want a man who makes that much, but then, men ideally want a woman who looks like Kim Taehee, and yet both end up getting married all the time.

sendittheemail makes good points about people wildly inflating income for the sake of image.