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I'm bothered that joe public can look up my resume on Naver.
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Adam Carolla



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:


Before posting your resume online (ANYWHERE), do please take the time to READ the terms of service of the site, esp the section on privacy of information....


The OP didn't post his resume online, someone else did. It's perfectly reasonable to be upset about that. And no, it doesn't happen in the U.S./Canada as often as it does in Korea. Implying it does makes you look ridiculous.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam, how many people have you hired?

How many hiring committees have you been on?

How many times have you been asked to screen and evaluate applicants?

I have done all of these numerous times over the years (in Korea and in Canada since we moved here) and the amount of information you find online about applicants is astounding, including old resumes freely available, pictures, blog postings, FB crap, tweets, the list goes on.

I know several employers here who hire people specialized in screening people prior to hiring them. What they find must be even more surprising.

A lot of people use the internet irresponsibly and do not consider the potential implications of what they write or post. Some even use their own names and provide tons of personnal information. It is unfortunate.

In Canada, people get rejected or disqualified from a hiring process more and more frequently due to online history issues. You can choose to stick your head in the sand on this one, that is your choice.

Were I to give future employability seminars to teenages or early 20s students, I would stress that they be extra careful about how they use the internet, especially with what they post, write, upload because sadly it can comeback and bite them in the behind later down the road.

So, read the TOS of the sites you post on, focus on the sections about how they use and treat what you upload or post there. Check the privacy settings and THINK before you post.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only ever posted my resume on two sites. This one (Dave's) and worknplay. In neither case is it made available to the general public. Potential recruiters need to pay to get access to the resume sites. So I've no idea how its now available on Naver. I take my privacy seriously, to an extent that I don't even belong to any social network sites. And that includes facebook. So to find out that a casual aquaintance can look up my personal information on the internet is more than a little annoying.
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Adam Carolla



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
I have done all of these numerous times over the years (in Korea and in Canada since we moved here) and the amount of information you find online about applicants is astounding, including old resumes freely available, pictures, blog postings, FB crap, tweets, the list goes on.


Irrelevant. The topic was never about how much info you can find about someone online, the topic was, very specifically, having one's resume posted without one's permission on a public website. Nice job ignoring the issue.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
In Canada, people get rejected or disqualified from a hiring process more and more frequently due to online history issues. You can choose to stick your head in the sand on this one, that is your choice.


First, show me where I disputed this (hell, show me that I was even addressing this) before you start making unwarranted accusations.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
So, read the TOS of the sites you post on, focus on the sections about how they use and treat what you upload or post there. Check the privacy settings and THINK before you post.


None of which, again, is relevant to having one's resume posted on the internet.

But hey, Homer, here's a question for you. Tell me what I could have done to prevent this: My resume, which I had never posted on the internet, was, surprise surprise, on a publicly viewable web page because my (Korean) employer put it there. They also put my private phone number on there as well. This happened to me many times during my years in Korea because, surprise surprise, Korean's view privacy differently than Americans and Canadians. I'm surprised you either A) didn't know that or B) didn't acknowledge it because that IS highly pertinent to the discussion.

Oh, right, I know why, it's because it doesn't fit your agenda of being a Korean apologist.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this economy, don't you want your resume out there as much as possible?
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NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My resume is posted on Linkedin. I have my email, but not my cell number on there. Isn't this normal for most professionals?

Also, to echo what Patrick said with a slight variation: if you're using Facebook to get a job, edit your profile. I recently rejected someone's application, however good it was, because his profile photos were all him posing as a ganster in wife beaters, sideways caps that had never had the brim curved, and with him drinking alcohol, with some of the photo names very blatant about getting drunk. Okay, you like to party. If you can handle yourself, that's fine. We're all adults here, but don't post it on a medium that you're using to find a job, and don't assume that, because I'm a foreigner, I'll be cool with it. My boss is a great lady, and always treated me well, and I wouldn't want her to have a slacker as my replacement. I ended up hiring a friend who is a certified, award-winning teacher, who also knew how great she was, and we were able to negotiate some good terms.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Carolla wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
I have done all of these numerous times over the years (in Korea and in Canada since we moved here) and the amount of information you find online about applicants is astounding, including old resumes freely available, pictures, blog postings, FB crap, tweets, the list goes on.


Irrelevant. The topic was never about how much info you can find about someone online, the topic was, very specifically, having one's resume posted without one's permission on a public website. Nice job ignoring the issue.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
In Canada, people get rejected or disqualified from a hiring process more and more frequently due to online history issues. You can choose to stick your head in the sand on this one, that is your choice.


First, show me where I disputed this (hell, show me that I was even addressing this) before you start making unwarranted accusations.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
So, read the TOS of the sites you post on, focus on the sections about how they use and treat what you upload or post there. Check the privacy settings and THINK before you post.


None of which, again, is relevant to having one's resume posted on the internet.

But hey, Homer, here's a question for you. Tell me what I could have done to prevent this: My resume, which I had never posted on the internet, was, surprise surprise, on a publicly viewable web page because my (Korean) employer put it there. They also put my private phone number on there as well. This happened to me many times during my years in Korea because, surprise surprise, Korean's view privacy differently than Americans and Canadians. I'm surprised you either A) didn't know that or B) didn't acknowledge it because that IS highly pertinent to the discussion.

Oh, right, I know why, it's because it doesn't fit your agenda of being a Korean apologist.


We just finished hiring 3 people. In the process of screening and hiring them we had to go through roughly 600 applicants (pain in the arse!). On average we found their resumes plastered all over the net and freely available for review (which is not a bad thing if the resume is done well and selective personal info is excluded). In that most basic of searches we also happened upon so much crap it defies imagination.

As for a solution, it is painfully simple: if someone posted your resume without your consent, you can contact the site (s) that posted them and request it is removed. You can then contact the person who you think posted it without your consent and tell them it is not acceptable for you. Christ if they put your personnal info out there, it can also be removed since I assume you have proof you never posted it online in the first place!

I did this a few times in the past couple of years. It happened that two people had sold their resume databases to other sites and that my resume ended up as being publicly viewable. It took some work but I had it removed.

That happened in Korea when we lived there. Same procedure: contact and request for it to be removed.

I did not accuse you, I responded to you when you said that what I said was irrelevant and useless. I then asked you what your experience in hiring people was, which is a pretty reasonable question considering the claims you were making.

Also, how on Earth is my response a form of apologism for Korea? Laughing

Good lord, slow down in your hurry to accuse me and re-read what I wrote. I did not say privacy issues did not occur online in Korea (heck they do), I said they are certainly not exclusive to the place as was hinted earlier in the thread. I also said, as a general comment, that people put far too much crap online and often do not realize the reach this has in terms of impact on their careers.

In short, be smart out there and be careful to whom you hand out your information and where you post it. So many sites simply sell their content to other sites.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote:
My resume is posted on Linkedin. I have my email, but not my cell number on there. Isn't this normal for most professionals?

Also, to echo what Patrick said with a slight variation: if you're using Facebook to get a job, edit your profile. I recently rejected someone's application, however good it was, because his profile photos were all him posing as a ganster in wife beaters, sideways caps that had never had the brim curved, and with him drinking alcohol, with some of the photo names very blatant about getting drunk. Okay, you like to party. If you can handle yourself, that's fine. We're all adults here, but don't post it on a medium that you're using to find a job, and don't assume that, because I'm a foreigner, I'll be cool with it. My boss is a great lady, and always treated me well, and I wouldn't want her to have a slacker as my replacement. I ended up hiring a friend who is a certified, award-winning teacher, who also knew how great she was, and we were able to negotiate some good terms.


It is amazing (in a bad way) and sad what employers run into when they perform the lightest of searches online on their applicants. Seriously, there should be classes about this in school as students get closer to the job market.

Other instances of pure idiocy are getting more and more numerous. I manage a few people at my work. For the most part this is par for course personnel management but sometimes it gets out there.

At our work, we do not require proof (doctors note) for anything under 3 consecutive sick days. All an employee has to do is call in sick to his immediate supervisor, end of story.

I know a lot of people in management positions in my department accept the fact that some people take the odd sick day to relax and avoid taking a vacation day. As long as the work of that employee is done and as long as the quality is there, this is usually not discussed.

Some people however are too dumb to understand this and publish what they have done on their sick days on FB, Twitter and so on using their work issued smart phone / BB AND their real names. This is just the tip of the iceberg really.

In other cases, when people apply, hiring committees run into pretty foul crap online, including pictures, videos, postings or stuff that contradicts or invalidates what they put in their application documents.

Just be smart out there, it is a competitive employment market, Korea ESL included.

To restate what NYCgal said:

Quote:
My resume is posted on Linkedin. I have my email, but not my cell number on there. Isn't this normal for most professionals?


Yes it should be!

Be selective with what personal information you put on your resume when you submit it to anyone or post it anywhere.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privacy is one thing, but for some reason I also think there is something called public record and accountability (possible links to another thread I am engaged in, although the expectations, limits and circumstances are VASTLY different). I mean something like a resume should be something you should stand by and have no qualms about anyone seeing it, outside of say, credit information and ID numbers (stuff that could be used to easily commit a criminal act against you).

I think the terms are integrity and accountability. Yes, this is who I am. For better or for worse.

Why are people so afraid of the truth and so bothered by it? Seriously, what information on a resume is so secretive that it must be hidden from the general public?

Oh my gosh, someone is going to find out I went to Pinecrest HS, got a 3.4GPA, then spent a year at Twiddle-dee-dee Community College before transferring to NorthSouthwest State and majoring in Communications while working at a Chuck-E-Cheese and then at a White Castle. Oh and the 'shocking' details that you consider yourself highly motivated and a good people person.

Sorry, that information is not that exciting. No one is plotting your downfall over that. Sorry, you just aren't that important or interesting.
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silkhighway



Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree it's hard to control who's going to see your resume once it's out there, and it's hard to promote yourself and also be secretive (for lack of a better word).

However you also shouldn't underestimate how much information you are giving away about yourself. I worked for a company where it was policy that I wasn't allowed to put my job title on my resume, on Facebook, or post it anywhere else public. It wasn't that I was in a particularly important job, I wasn't, but the company's rationale was that by giving away my job title I made the company a little more susceptible to a social engineering attack. Someone calls the company pretending to be me, knowing enough information about me to be convincing, and weasels their way into getting information about my manager or a project I'm working on. They use that information to get information about a senior manager and so on..

Social engineering is very real, a large part of "computer hacking" is actually social engineering.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silkhighway wrote:
I agree it's hard to control who's going to see your resume once it's out there, and it's hard to promote yourself and also be secretive (for lack of a better word).

However you also shouldn't underestimate how much information you are giving away about yourself. I worked for a company where it was policy that I wasn't allowed to put my job title on my resume, on Facebook, or post it anywhere else public. It wasn't that I was in a particularly important job, I wasn't, but the company's rationale was that by giving away my job title I made the company a little more susceptible to a social engineering attack. Someone calls the company pretending to be me, knowing enough information about me to be convincing, and weasels their way into getting information about my manager or a project I'm working on. They use that information to get information about a senior manager and so on..

Social engineering is very real, a large part of "computer hacking" is actually social engineering.


Indeed it is. It is a big problem these days.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silkhighway wrote:
I agree it's hard to control who's going to see your resume once it's out there, and it's hard to promote yourself and also be secretive (for lack of a better word).

However you also shouldn't underestimate how much information you are giving away about yourself. I worked for a company where it was policy that I wasn't allowed to put my job title on my resume, on Facebook, or post it anywhere else public. It wasn't that I was in a particularly important job, I wasn't, but the company's rationale was that by giving away my job title I made the company a little more susceptible to a social engineering attack. Someone calls the company pretending to be me, knowing enough information about me to be convincing, and weasels their way into getting information about my manager or a project I'm working on. They use that information to get information about a senior manager and so on..

Social engineering is very real, a large part of "computer hacking" is actually social engineering.


Bah! What's the worst that could happen? Trick me into getting an internet girlfriend who mysteriously dies of cancer? A likely story.
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The King of Kwangju



Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote:
I recently rejected someone's application, however good it was, because his profile photos were all him posing in ... sideways caps that had never had the brim curved...

If only the brims had been curved, the chap might be employed by now.
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Stan Rogers



Joined: 20 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone knows the internet is 100% true. I believe everything I read on the net.
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Adam Carolla



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
A bunch of bs.


Chris, do you want your dirty laundry aired? Do you want people to know about your recruiting agency and about how you are a mod for Dave's ESL Cafe? Do you want people to know that your opinions, posted on this site, are specifically so that you can drive more business to your ESL-Korea business? Look, your bullshit "consultant" business is clearly just you being a recruiter. You're not qualified for anything else. You make a living preying upon young college graduates, and you hide behind your persona as a Dave's Mod to legitimize yourself. You're a horrible human being. But please, confirm this post by deleting it.
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