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White House opposes STEM visa bill,

 
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: White House opposes STEM visa bill, Reply with quote

Quote:
The U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill Friday that would draw more foreign students to graduate science, technology, engineering and math programs and could increase GW’s admissions selectivity – though it has become the target of political opposition.

The bill would create 55,000 additional working visas for foreigners who receive advanced degrees in STEM fields from American universities, intended to encourage international students to stay in the U.S. after graduating.


http://www.gwhatchet.com/2012/12/03/stem-student-visa-bill-would-strengthen-gw-programs/

DUMB.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama doesn't want to trade the lottery visas.

I know someone who came to the U.S. on a lottery visa. I'm totally fine with giving it up, but Republicans should just ask for the STEM visas and be done with it.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The STEM obsession is similar to the social media start up obsession. It makes the ladies at the NYT wet between the legs.

America produces more than enough STEM grads. It's rude to go out of your way to displace 50,000 of them.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
It's rude to go out of your way to displace 50,000 of them.


Why? America's intellectual laborers made no serious effort to stand by physical laborers in their fight against the devaluation of their services, why should they expect anyone to come to their aid now that they face a similar situation? These guys are often enough fine with unions being torn down and physical labor being globalized as long as their degrees protected their own jobs. They acted with disloyalty to their fellow citizen, and sooner or later, they're going to end up receiving a dose of the same, because just as with physical laborers, the capital-holders simply don't want to pay them what their labor is actually worth (which is what talk of "skills mismatches" are generally really about: "I can't find people with the skills I want," is really, "I can't find people with the skills I want who will take the likely shitty wages I'm offering."). They're just getting the same treatment they condoned others getting, and maybe that's not such a bad thing. Maybe they need a solid slap in the face to realize why limitless global competition is a terrible idea.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Titus wrote:
It's rude to go out of your way to displace 50,000 of them.


Why? America's intellectual laborers made no serious effort to stand by physical laborers in their fight against the devaluation of their services, why should they expect anyone to come to their aid now that they face a similar situation?


New grads compete with new grads. New American STEM grads have done exactly zero to contribute to the current state of things. Selling them out is rude.

Let's keep in mind that STEM sounds sexy but science majors don't make bank as it is and a hell of a lot of them graduate with extremely large debt. Engineers can earn very well and should earn very well.

Don't you usually take the Mr. Moral Philosopher stand on things? But not now?
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Fox wrote:
Titus wrote:
It's rude to go out of your way to displace 50,000 of them.


Why? America's intellectual laborers made no serious effort to stand by physical laborers in their fight against the devaluation of their services, why should they expect anyone to come to their aid now that they face a similar situation?


New grads compete with new grads. New American STEM grads have done exactly zero to contribute to the current state of things. Selling them out is rude.


You're thinking in terms of personal responsibility. I'm thinking in terms of systematic culture. College graduates as a group have been fine with globalization and will continue to be fine with globalization until they feel the sting of it as thoroughly as their less-educated peers. New STEM graduates have the same, "I don't care if that guy from high school loses his factory job to a fellow from China so long as my job is secure, because I have a degree, damn it," attitude that their predecessors had. That's what needs to change, and I don't see any way to change it without letting the amoral, narcissistic middle class feel the full brunt of the pain to which their attitudes have opened up the lower classes.

Titus wrote:
Don't you usually take the Mr. Moral Philosopher stand on things? But not now?


My position is that America ought to be highly protectionist, and possessed of a high degree of native-preference, regarding both its intellectual labor and its physical labor, with protection of physical labor being the more important of the two in this regard, because physical labor is both the foundation of an economy, and encompasses a greater number of citizens. Generally speaking, I've observed a certain degree of self-interested smugness from the educated, being totally willing to embrace globalization and immigration so long as they felt their own jobs were safe. That kind of selfishness can't be incentivized. "Competition with China for you, protectionism for me," is no way to run a country.

If Americans are smart enough to turn course now, that's great. If they aren't, then playing favorites about who gets spared the pain is unjust.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You're thinking in terms of personal responsibility. I'm thinking in terms of systematic culture.


And we hit our common point of disagreement. I don't fault the graduate who comes out of uni a globalist. He was taught to be one by his culture (which is top down).

Quote:
New STEM graduates have the same, "I don't care if that guy from high school loses his factory job to a fellow from China so long as my job is secure, because I have a degree, damn it," attitude that their predecessors had.


I don't think that's true. The groups that's true for are business and economics majors. Engineers and scientists probably don't think about it much. The good economics majors get phd's and are forever protected from immigration (and spend their time talking shit about people who want protectionism). Business majors are taught that the only purpose of a firm is to max shareholder value no matter the cost, which is probably sociopathic. A circle of hell awaits.

Quote:
Generally speaking, I've observed a certain degree of self-interested smugness from the educated, being totally willing to embrace globalization and immigration so long as they felt their own jobs were safe.


Very true.

Quote:
If Americans are smart enough to turn course now, that's great. If they aren't, then playing favorites about who gets spared the pain is unjust.


I don't think Americans have a say either way. Elections are bought. We all know it.
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
The STEM obsession is similar to the social media start up obsession. It makes the ladies at the NYT wet between the legs.

America produces more than enough STEM grads. It's rude to go out of your way to displace 50,000 of them.



Korean Universities produce more than enough English majors . It's rude to go out of your way to displace 30,000 of them.


No the US does not have enough STEM grads. The people the US sends home are those who could/ would start up new US business and supercharge US companies with their talent. This in turn would create new jobs for US workers and fire up the US economy. They would also buy up the surplus US houses, pay taxes and help the US get out of debt.

The addition of the STEM graduates would go a long way into solving the economic ills that US now faces. I am not happy with 1- 2% US growth. Adding talent would go a long way to getting the US economy back to 3-4 % growth.

Hire Indian doctors -> Cut medical costs for everyone.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-27/a-looming-u-dot-s-dot-doctor-shortage

An economic stimulus that doesn't cost the tax payers one penny. A MAGIC BULLET for ending the recession.


A South Asian invented the Pentium Chip
Vinod Dham . the Father of the Pentium chip,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinod_Dham


How much has that contributed to the US economy? What other great inventions and start up business could be gained by keeping talent int he US? By the way if the engineers are here US companies won't be so quick to out source jobs. Talented scientists and engineers belong in the US not overseas.

What you are saying is akin to the following:

Lets not allow any non Americans to play major league baseball . We have to preserve places on the teams for Americans.

That would be bad for baseball and what you advocate is bad for the US economy.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H1-B visas require of applicants an ETA-9035. The employer must get an LCA approval from the Department of Labor.

The amount of red tape obstructing an H1-B applicant is a kind of protectionism in its own right.

Before the Depression, H1-B visas became available in April and run out in May. The mad dash for these visas is cruel given the requirements. As such, there must be a job opening from about October to April for an H1-B visa applicant to receive a job. And yet, these visas, in normal economic times, will still run out.

But just as have illegal unskilled workers, would-be H1B entrants decided to leave the country with the onset of the Depression.

No employer, given a real choice, would choose an H1-B applicant over a similarly qualified American applicant, unless he were already a relative or a friend.
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://it-jobs.fins.com/Articles/SBB0001424052702304743704577383972211502572/Samsung-Hiring-Foreign-Software-Engineers

Samsung Hiring Foreign Software Engineers

Quote:

Samsung Electronics Co. has long shunned outside help in favor of developing devices on its own.

But as the smartphone market rapidly shifts its emphasis from hardware to software, the Korean manufacturer is realizing it must change its insular corporate culture.

Samsung has begun aggressively hiring foreign software engineers, especially in India, to build up its software prowess and keep pace with the rapid rise of rival Apple Inc. and its popular iPhone.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Study: There may not be a shortage of American STEM graduates after all

Quote:
f there’s one thing that everyone can agree on in Washington, it’s that the country has a woeful shortage of workers trained in science, technology, engineering and math — what’s referred to as STEM.

President Obama has said that improving STEM education is one of his top priorities. Chief executives regularly come through Washington complaining that they can’t find qualified American workers for openings at their firms that require a science background. And armed with this argument in the debate over immigration policy, lobbyists are pushing hard for more temporary work visas, known as H-1Bs, which they say are needed to make up for the lack of Americans with STEM skills.

But not everyone agrees. A study released Wednesday by the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute reinforces what a number of researchers have come to believe: that the STEM worker shortage is a myth.

The EPI study found that the United States has “more than a sufficient supply of workers available to work in STEM occupations.” Basic dynamics of supply and demand would dictate that if there were a domestic labor shortage, wages should have risen. Instead, researchers found, they’ve been flat, with many Americans holding STEM degrees unable to enter the field and a sharply higher share of foreign workers taking jobs in the information technology industry. (IT jobs make up 59 percent of the STEM workforce, according to the study.)

The answer to whether there is a shortage of such workers has important ramifications for the immigration bill. If it exists, then there’s an urgency that justifies allowing companies to bring more foreign workers into the country, usually on a short-term H-1B visa. But those who oppose such a policy argue that companies want more of these visas mainly because H-1B workers are paid an estimated 20 percent less than their American counterparts. Why allow these companies to hire more foreign workers for less, the critics argue, when there are plenty of Americans who are ready to work?

The EPI study said that while the overall number of U.S. students who earn STEM degrees is small — a fact that many lawmakers and the news media have seized on — it’s more important to focus on what happens to these students after they graduate. According to the study, they have a surprisingly hard time finding work. Only half of the students graduating from college with a STEM degree are hired into a STEM job, the study said.

“Even in engineering,” the authors said, “U.S. colleges have historically produced about 50 percent more graduates than are hired into engineering jobs each year.”

The picture is not that bright for computer science students, either. “For computer science graduates employed one year after graduation . . . about half of those who took a job outside of IT say they did so because the career prospects were better elsewhere, and roughly a third because they couldn’t find a job in IT,” the study said.

While liberal arts graduates might be used to having to look for jobs with only tenuous connections to their majors, the researchers said this shouldn’t be the case for graduates with degrees attached to specific skills such as engineering.

The tech industry has said that it needs more H-1B visas in order to hire the “best and the brightest,” regardless of their citizenship. Yet the IT industry seems to have a surprisingly low bar for education. The study found that among IT workers, 36 percent do not have a four-year college degree. Among the 64 percent who do have diplomas, only 38 percent have a computer science or math degree.

The bipartisan immigration plan introduced last week by the so-called Gang of Eight senators would raise the number of H-1B visas, though it would limit the ability of outsourcing firms to have access to them. Tech companies such as Facebook and Microsoft have fought hard to distinguish themselves from these outsourcing companies, arguing that unlike firms such as Wipro, they’re looking for the best people, not just ones who will work for less.

But some worry that the more H-1Bs allowed into the system, the more domestic workers get crowded out, resulting in what no one appears to want: fewer American students seeing much promise in entering STEM fields.
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:

No employer, given a real choice, would choose an H1-B applicant over a similarly qualified American applicant, unless he were already a relative or a friend.


Oh Kuros that's funny. White people do not understand ethnic nepotism. Ever seen an IT department?
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Study: There may not be a shortage of American STEM graduates after all

Quote:
f there’s one thing that everyone can agree on in Washington, it’s that the country has a woeful shortage of workers trained in science, technology, engineering and math — what’s referred to as STEM.

President Obama has said that improving STEM education is one of his top priorities. Chief executives regularly come through Washington complaining that they can’t find qualified American workers for openings at their firms that require a science background. And armed with this argument in the debate over immigration policy, lobbyists are pushing hard for more temporary work visas, known as H-1Bs, which they say are needed to make up for the lack of Americans with STEM skills.

But not everyone agrees. A study released Wednesday by the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute reinforces what a number of researchers have come to believe: that the STEM worker shortage is a myth.

The EPI study found that the United States has “more than a sufficient supply of workers available to work in STEM occupations.” Basic dynamics of supply and demand would dictate that if there were a domestic labor shortage, wages should have risen. Instead, researchers found, they’ve been flat, with many Americans holding STEM degrees unable to enter the field and a sharply higher share of foreign workers taking jobs in the information technology industry. (IT jobs make up 59 percent of the STEM workforce, according to the study.)

The answer to whether there is a shortage of such workers has important ramifications for the immigration bill. If it exists, then there’s an urgency that justifies allowing companies to bring more foreign workers into the country, usually on a short-term H-1B visa. But those who oppose such a policy argue that companies want more of these visas mainly because H-1B workers are paid an estimated 20 percent less than their American counterparts. Why allow these companies to hire more foreign workers for less, the critics argue, when there are plenty of Americans who are ready to work?

The EPI study said that while the overall number of U.S. students who earn STEM degrees is small — a fact that many lawmakers and the news media have seized on — it’s more important to focus on what happens to these students after they graduate. According to the study, they have a surprisingly hard time finding work. Only half of the students graduating from college with a STEM degree are hired into a STEM job, the study said.

“Even in engineering,” the authors said, “U.S. colleges have historically produced about 50 percent more graduates than are hired into engineering jobs each year.”

The picture is not that bright for computer science students, either. “For computer science graduates employed one year after graduation . . . about half of those who took a job outside of IT say they did so because the career prospects were better elsewhere, and roughly a third because they couldn’t find a job in IT,” the study said.

While liberal arts graduates might be used to having to look for jobs with only tenuous connections to their majors, the researchers said this shouldn’t be the case for graduates with degrees attached to specific skills such as engineering.

The tech industry has said that it needs more H-1B visas in order to hire the “best and the brightest,” regardless of their citizenship. Yet the IT industry seems to have a surprisingly low bar for education. The study found that among IT workers, 36 percent do not have a four-year college degree. Among the 64 percent who do have diplomas, only 38 percent have a computer science or math degree.

The bipartisan immigration plan introduced last week by the so-called Gang of Eight senators would raise the number of H-1B visas, though it would limit the ability of outsourcing firms to have access to them. Tech companies such as Facebook and Microsoft have fought hard to distinguish themselves from these outsourcing companies, arguing that unlike firms such as Wipro, they’re looking for the best people, not just ones who will work for less.

But some worry that the more H-1Bs allowed into the system, the more domestic workers get crowded out, resulting in what no one appears to want: fewer American students seeing much promise in entering STEM fields.


Of course there is no shortage. Wages aren't rising.

The media hates white America and wants it toast as soon as possible. They'll lie lie lie. And most citizens will believe it.
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