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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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BC has rejected the Enbridge pipeline.
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British Columbia has rejected the Enbridge�s Northern Gateway Pipeline proposal, which aims to build a massive pipeline from Alberta to the port of Kitimat, B.C.
The province filed its final written statement to the federal Northern Gateway Pipeline Joint Review Panel and concluded that it will not support the $6-billion proposal, as it stands, due mainly to environmental concerns.
�British Columbia thoroughly reviewed all of the evidence and submissions made to the panel and asked substantive questions about the project including its route, spill response capacity and financial structure to handle any incidents," environment minister Terry Lake said.
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I'm not sure what options Enbridge has left. The federal government says they're still gonna push for the pipeline to go through.
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't Canada the 51st state anyway? Sorry, bad joke. Canada simply bending to the will of the new and in the near future, biggest kid on the block. Despite the rhetoric, America has been bending since the '90s at least. We've amazingly sold them or made it easy for them to steal technology that even helps them reach America with a nuke and build a stealth plane.
China is the next super power and can usurp America's claim to be the world's leading super power....at least economically. Military will follow, trust me on that.
China is acting no different than any past super power. Is not right but its the way of natioins in that position. Russia and America did it. The Brits did in their empire and the European powers did with their colonies. This is nothing new. China will continue to take advantage of its financial might for its own benefit. It owns Africa. South America is next (It has replaced America as Brazil's biggest trade partner). Europe in time as well.
America has its own self to blame. Even as we speak America is quickening its own power with infighting and no unified comprehensive approach to its varied issues.
My advice. Learn mandarin. Not kidding. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Canada is it's own country of course, but also a vassal of the USA. 
Last edited by young_clinton on Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| Canada needs to become less dependent on the American economy, |
This is very true. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Canadians as a whole are probably not that much different from Americans. I think they mostly want to benefit from American money and trade and have a good life. Canada also benefits from the fact that it doesn't have to have much of a military force. If Canada is militarily weak who is going to invade it? The US certainly doesn't want to and hasn't wanted to for centuries. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Obama playing hard-to-get on Keystone...
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Pressed by North American allies on an array of politically fraught issues, U.S. President Barack Obama on Wednesday vowed to press ahead with stalled efforts to expand trade agreements for the Americas into Asia and overhaul fractured U.S. immigration laws. But Obama made no promises about his long-anticipated decision on the Keystone XL pipeline.
While Obama acknowledged that the U.S. review of the pipeline project has been "extensive," he defended the process, saying "these are how we make these decisions about something that could potentially have significant impact on America's national economy and our national interests."
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For myself, if I was betting money, I'd bet against Keystone being approved. Or at least, the decision being made so far into the future that there is currently not much point in talking about its political impact. The rumour is, a decision won't be made until Obama is out of office.
What's sometimes forgotten in this discussion is that the Keystone XL wouldn't be brining oil for sale to Americans, but for export out of the Gulf Of Mexico. So, at least as planned at the present time, it's not really invaluable to the energy security of the USA. Bascially, it'll create a few jobs in the relevant states, and have whatever economic benefit results from shipping out Canadian oil.
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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WASHINGTON — The Keystone XL pipeline project appears paralyzed for another year, with the U.S. administration announcing another delay in a process already beset by political and legal challenges.
The American administration shrugged off a demand from the Canadian government for an immediate decision on the controversial pipeline, so that construction could begin this summer.
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Showdown in DC over Keystone...
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As a pro-Keystone XL effort gathered bipartisan steam in Congress, President Barack Obama suggested that the controversial pipeline may be good for Canada but doesn't offer much to Americans.
The Republican-dominated House of Representatives passed – by a 252-161 vote – a pro-Keystone XL bill intended to force Mr. Obama to approve the Canadian oil export project.
It was the ninth time the House of Representatives has passed a pro-Keystone XL measure. The Senate is expected to take up a similar bill next week.
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I'd still bet money against Keystone going through under this administration, assuming Obama has the final say. His rhetoric doesn't sound like he's offering any olive branches to the pro-pipeline side.
And irony, as usual, abounds in all this. The Canadian left, which generally opposes Keystone, is now, for all practical purposes, pinning its hopes on an American president spouting effectively anti-Canadian rhetoric.
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.newsweek.com/keystone-pipeline-will-not-affect-canada-oil-sands-growth-us-report-227693
who died and made you boss?
anyway Obama's opposition to Keystone is almost as dumb as Bush's opposition to stem cell research.
He is opposing it on principle which is dumb. The US needs everything it can to get the economy going.
Obama ought to say he will approve keystone if the senate enacts an increase in the gas tax. The gas tax increase would go to the national debt.
Doing it this way would :
1) increase jobs
2) improve the environment
3) cut down debt. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
http://www.newsweek.com/keystone-pipeline-will-not-affect-canada-oil-sands-growth-us-report-227693
who died and made you boss?
anyway Obama's opposition to Keystone is almost as dumb as Bush's opposition to stem cell research.
He is opposing it on principle which is dumb. The US needs everything it can to get the economy going.
Obama ought to say he will approve keystone if the senate enacts an increase in the gas tax. The gas tax increase would go to the national debt.
Doing it this way would :
1) increase jobs
2) improve the environment
3) cut down debt. |
The US doesn't need to engage in a massive project to ship Canadian oil out of the gulf to foreign lands, not for a trickle of 60 permanent jobs for the pipeline, and another couple hundred at refineries and shipping.
Its the dawn of the solar power age.
Fossil fuels contaminate the air and hasten climate change. Since Obama cannot institute a carbon tax he should shut down Keystone XL. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
http://www.newsweek.com/keystone-pipeline-will-not-affect-canada-oil-sands-growth-us-report-227693
who died and made you boss?
anyway Obama's opposition to Keystone is almost as dumb as Bush's opposition to stem cell research.
He is opposing it on principle which is dumb. The US needs everything it can to get the economy going.
Obama ought to say he will approve keystone if the senate enacts an increase in the gas tax. The gas tax increase would go to the national debt.
Doing it this way would :
1) increase jobs
2) improve the environment
3) cut down debt. |
The US doesn't need to engage in a massive project to ship Canadian oil out of the gulf to foreign lands, not for a trickle of 60 permanent jobs for the pipeline, and another couple hundred at refineries and shipping.
Its the dawn of the solar power age.
Fossil fuels contaminate the air and hasten climate change. Since Obama cannot institute a carbon tax he should shut down Keystone XL. |
it will increase profits for US an Canadian companies which will help the economies of both countries. I agree about the carbon tax. Tax it to the stars.
Q would you accept Keystone if there was a carbon tax / gas tax increase to go along with it? IF there was a increase in the gas tax people would drive less or drive more fuel efficient vehicles. Results are more important than principles.
keystone ought not be opposed on principle, opponents instead ought to trade it away for an increase in the gas tax.
Canadian oil will be exported to china with or without keystone. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
it will increase profits for US an Canadian companies which will help the economies of both countries. I agree about the carbon tax. Tax it to the stars.
Q would you accept Keystone if there was a carbon tax / gas tax increase to go along with it? IF there was a increase in the gas tax people would drive less or drive more fuel efficient vehicles. Results are more important than principles. |
Of course I would. I'm not an obstructionist or a maximalist. But you know what such a trade would get from the energy lobby? At most a penny carbon tax.
Yes, I understand the emissions increases would be just barely significant and largely symbolic.
Before you think I'm some kind of radical greenso commie, here's why I react so strongly against a project primarily promoted for Big Oil profit:
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The year 1913 marked the first time a Big Oil subsidy was written into the tax code. The Revenue Act of 1913 allowed oil companies to write off 5 percent of the costs from oil and gas wells beginning March 1 of that year. (For reference, see pages 172-174 of the Act.) A century later, oil companies can now deduct three times this rate, at 15 percent, although the very largest companies no longer qualify. The percentage depletion subsidy also increases when prices are high, at the same time that oil companies enjoy greater profit. It can even eliminate all federal taxes for independent producers.
A Center for American Progress report estimated that closing this tax break would save $11.2 billion over 10 years.
President Obama has called on Congress to eliminate the percentage depletion allowance, along with a series of other tax breaks totaling $4 billion annually. Even Ronald Reagan once asked for the same in a 1985 speech on tax reform:
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| “Under our new tax proposal the oil and gas industry will be asked to pick up a larger share of the national tax burden. The old oil depletion allowance will be dropped from the tax code except for wells producing less than 10 barrels a day. By eliminating this special preference, we’ll go a long way toward ensuring that those that earn their wealth in the oil industry will be subject to the same taxes as the rest of us.” |
However, congressional Republicans taking the lion’s share of oil and gas industry contributions have refused to close century-old loopholes in order to raise revenue. |
Yeah, this turned into another one of those modern-Republicans-would-find-Reagan-a-pinko posts.
And by the way, if there were significant job prospects to Keystone XL, like in the tens of thousands instead of the tens of dozens, I would still support it reluctantly.
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| keystone ought not be opposed on principle, opponents instead ought to trade it away for an increase in the gas tax. |
Is that even on the table? The Republicans came into power on obstructionism and killing bills. If Obama vetoes everything for two years, it should have been a perfectly predictable outcome. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Canadian oil will be exported to china with or without keystone. |
That is not at the moment a certain guarantee. There is widespread opposition to Nothern Gateway among First Nation groups in British Columbia. Unlike environmental activists who talk tough but command minimal public following, the natives actually control the land over which the pipeline would be built.
The Alberta and federal governments are gonna try to get the First Nations on board, but it remains to be seen whether this will be successful. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-08/keystone-be-darned-canada-finds-oil-route-around-obama.html
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Keystone Be Darned: Canada Finds Oil Route Around Obama
Oct 8, 2014
By Rebecca Penty, Hugo Miller, Andrew Mayeda and Edward Greenspon
So you’re the Canadian oil industry and you do what you think is a great thing by developing a mother lode of heavy crude beneath the forests and muskeg of northern Alberta. The plan is to send it clear to refineries on the U.S. Gulf Coast via a pipeline called Keystone XL. Just a few years back, America desperately wanted that oil.
Then one day the politics get sticky. In Nebraska, farmers don’t want the pipeline running through their fields or over their water source. U.S. environmentalists invoke global warming in protesting the project. President Barack Obama keeps siding with them, delaying and delaying approval. From the Canadian perspective, Keystone has become a tractor mired in an interminably muddy field.
Related: The Keystone Killer the Enviros Didn't See Coming
In this period of national gloom comes an idea -- a crazy-sounding notion, or maybe, actually, an epiphany. How about an all-Canadian route to liberate that oil sands crude from Alberta’s isolation and America’s fickleness? Canada’s own environmental and aboriginal politics are holding up a shorter and cheaper pipeline to the Pacific that would supply a shipping portal to oil-thirsty Asia.
Instead, go east, all the way to the Atlantic.
Thus was born Energy East, an improbable pipeline that its backers say has a high probability of being built. It will cost C$12 billion ($10.7 billion) and could be up and running by 2018. Its 4,600-kilometer (2,858-mile) path, taking advantage of a vast length of existing and underused natural gas pipeline, would wend through six provinces and four time zones. It would be Keystone on steroids, more than twice as long and carrying a third more crude.
Supertanker Access
Its end point, a refinery in Saint John, New Brunswick, operated by a reclusive Canadian billionaire family, would give Canada’s oil-sands crude supertanker access to the same Louisiana and Texas refineries Keystone was meant to supply.
As well, Vladimir Putin’s provocations in Ukraine are spurring interest in that oil from Europe and, strange as it seems, Saint John provides among the fastest shipping times to India of any oil port in North America. Indian companies, having already sampled this crude, are interested in more. That means oil-sands production for the first time would trade in more than dribs and drabs on the international markets. With the U.S. virtually its only buyer, the captive Canadians are subject to price discounts of as much as $43 a barrel that cost Canada $20 billion a year.
And if you’re a fed-up Canadian, like Prime Minister Stephen Harper, there’s a bonus: Obama can’t do a single thing about it.
Done Deal
“The best way to get Keystone XL built is to make it irrelevant,” said Frank McKenna, who served three terms as premier of New Brunswick and was ambassador to the U.S. before becoming a banker.
So confident is TransCanada Corp., the chief backer of both Keystone and Energy East, of success that Alex Pourbaix, the executive in charge, spoke of the cross-Canada line as virtually a done deal.
Crude on the Move
“With one project,” Energy East will give Alberta’s oil sands not only an outlet to “eastern Canadian markets but to global markets,” said Pourbaix. “And we’ve done so at scale, with a 1.1 million barrel per day pipeline, which will go a long way to removing the specter of those big differentials for many years to come.”
The project still faces political hurdles. U.S. and international greens who hate Keystone may not like this any better. In Quebec, where most new construction will occur, a homegrown environmental movement is already asking tough questions.
Special Relationship
Still, if this end run around the Keystone holdup comes to fruition, it would give a lift to Canadian oil and government interests who feel they’re being played by Obama as he sweeps aside a long understood “special relationship” between the world’s two biggest trading partners to score political points with environmental supporters at home. |
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