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quick q. for tompatz?
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: quick q. for tompatz? Reply with quote

is the anything in the E2 visa rules/ guidelines that says a foreigner has to pay into a government/ private pension scheme?

thanks
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: quick q. for tompatz? Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:
is the anything in the E2 visa rules/ guidelines that says a foreigner has to pay into a government/ private pension scheme?

thanks


There is nothing in the immigration/visa rules.

It IS covered under labor law and by the NPS.

There ARE exceptions: S.Africans don't pay in.

Canadians, Americans and Australians have their contributions matched by the employer (by law) and then are entitled to a refund of ALL funds when they leave.

Brits, the Irish and Kiwis have to wait till they retire to get it back.

.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks very much for that.
I'm trawling through all of the labour standards and i cant find anything that says you 'must' contribute if your x (im british). it does appear to be optional. wether you pay into it or not.

im sorry, as im sure your busy, but am i right in saying then its not illegal to opt out?
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bmaw01



Joined: 13 May 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...

I guess I got screwed. I haven't put into a pension since I've been working in Korea. I've been here for almost 2 years now. It was brought up a few times, and every time my boss told us the pension only benefits people who have stayed in Korea long term. She described long term as 5 plus years. To make matters worse we had a foreigner who worked in Korea for 7 years, and he sided with my boss, and told us that she was correct. We believed him because he had the experience and we thought he knew the rules. I guess he was wrong. Mad

Anyway, I only have two months left on my contract. ttompatz what would you do? Would you just forget about it? I don't want to cause an issue. I'd like to leave on a positive note. I want a good reference when I leave. I feel that if I start to press her, she might get mad at me.

Thanks.
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nicwr2002



Joined: 17 Aug 2011

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:
thanks very much for that.
I'm trawling through all of the labour standards and i cant find anything that says you 'must' contribute if your x (im british). it does appear to be optional. wether you pay into it or not.

im sorry, as im sure your busy, but am i right in saying then its not illegal to opt out?


I thought it was optional also. I didn't pay into it my first 6 months in Korea until I was sent a letter in the mail by the government. I read it over and it had some criteria to be excluded from paying into the pension, but I didn't meet any of those criteria. I don't have that letter anymore, but from my experience the government knew that I wasn't paying.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicwr2002 wrote:
le-paul wrote:
thanks very much for that.
I'm trawling through all of the labour standards and i cant find anything that says you 'must' contribute if your x (im british). it does appear to be optional. wether you pay into it or not.

im sorry, as im sure your busy, but am i right in saying then its not illegal to opt out?


I thought it was optional also. I didn't pay into it my first 6 months in Korea until I was sent a letter in the mail by the government. I read it over and it had some criteria to be excluded from paying into the pension, but I didn't meet any of those criteria. I don't have that letter anymore, but from my experience the government knew that I wasn't paying.


that seems to be the impression i have. Theres nothing in the labour standards act that says paying is mandetory. So im wondering where it is in the law that says you must pay.

I wish you still had that letter...
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmaw01 wrote:
Hmm...

I guess I got screwed. I haven't put into a pension since I've been working in Korea. I've been here for almost 2 years now. It was brought up a few times, and every time my boss told us the pension only benefits people who have stayed in Korea long term. She described long term as 5 plus years. To make matters worse we had a foreigner who worked in Korea for 7 years, and he sided with my boss, and told us that she was correct. We believed him because he had the experience and we thought he knew the rules. I guess he was wrong. Mad

Anyway, I only have two months left on my contract. ttompatz what would you do? Would you just forget about it? I don't want to cause an issue. I'd like to leave on a positive note. I want a good reference when I leave. I feel that if I start to press her, she might get mad at me.

Thanks.


id pay attention too to how this thread goes then. It seems you may be in the same boat as me ( havent paid and will get a lump sum demand).
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because labor law does not cover pension. Pension is covered the National Pension Act. As ttompatz said pension is mandatory except for South Africans.

Check out the pension site.
http://english.nps.or.kr/jsppage/english/scheme/scheme_01.jsp

Here is the agreement between Korea nd the UK.
http://english.nps.or.kr/jsppage/english/agreement/agreement_02_02_01.jsp

Here are the laws from the National Pension Act. Once again National pension which most teachers will be is covered by this. A few University and Colleges teachers are covered under a private pension fun.

Quote:
Article 6 (Coverage)

A national of the Republic of Korea who resides in the territory of the Republic of Korea and who is between 18 and less than 60 years of age shall be insured under the National Pension Scheme: Provided, That public officials, military personnel and private school teachers and staff to whom the Public Officials Pension Act, the Veterans' Pension Act and the Pension for Private School Teachers and Staff Act apply, respectively and other persons as prescribed by Presidential Decree shall be excluded here from.


Quote:

Article 126 (Application to Foreigners)

(1) Notwithstanding Article 6, a foreigner who is employed in a workplace governed by this Act and a foreigner who resides in the Republic of Korea other than a foreigner as determined by Presidential Decree shall be deemed a workplace-based insured person or individually insured person as a matter of course: Provided, That this shall not apply if any relevant Act of such foreigner's home country does not apply to the citizens of the Republic of Korea with respect to a pension corresponding to the National Pension Scheme under this Act.

(2) The provisions of Articles 77 through 79 shall not apply to a foreigner who has become a workplace-based insured person or individually insured person under the main sentence of paragraph (1): Provided, That this shall not apply to a foreigner who falls under any of the following subparagraphs:

1. The home country of the foreigner concerned has an Act which provides for the payment of benefits corresponding to a lump-sum refund under Articles 77 through 79 to the citizens of the Republic of Korea;

2. A foreign employee under the Act on the Employment of Foreign Employees, etc. who is employed in a workplace governed by this Act;

3. A person who is employed in a workplace governed by this Act as a person who meets the requirements for the status of sojourn under which he/she is able to be engaged in industrial training activities under Article 10 of the Immigration Control Act and has not left a designated place of training for a required training period.

Article 127 (Social Security Agreements with Foreign Countries)

Where the Republic of Korea establishes a social security agreement with a foreign country, such social security agreement shall apply to the coverage of the National Pension Scheme, payment of pension contributions, conditions for the payment of benefits, assessment of the amount of benefits, payment of benefits, etc., notwithstanding this Act.


Yes it does suck for some people like th Irish, British, and Kiwis. You have to contribute and you do not get the lump sum refund refund. Sorry, no easy way to dodge. You can avoid paying contributing but that can means either a big bill in the future AND unable to get health Insurance. You get one, you are enrolled in the other.

http://english.nps.or.kr/jsppage/english/scheme/scheme_02.jsp



Quote:


HOME > National Pension > National Pension Scheme > Contribution
Contribution

※ Since the relevant Acts were amended, the National Health Insurance Corporation (NHIC) will collect contributions for all social insurance programs (National Pension, Health Insurance, Employment Insurance, Industrial Accident Compensation Insurance) from Jan. 1, 2011.

Therefore, administrative affairs related to collecting contributions such as the issuance of notices for the payment of contributions determined by the NPS, solicitation for the payment and disposition for arrears, will be conducted by the NHIC.
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bmaw01



Joined: 13 May 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my boss has been getting around it because no one pays into the pension system at my school. The school has only been operating for 2 years so it's relatively new. We have 3 Brits and 4 Americans. In fact, a new American teacher is arriving tonight.

What can I possibly do? I have 2 months left on my contract.
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmaw01 wrote:
Well my boss has been getting around it because no one pays into the pension system at my school. The school has only been operating for 2 years so it's relatively new. We have 3 Brits and 4 Americans. In fact, a new American teacher is arriving tonight.

What can I possibly do? I have 2 months left on my contract.


Your boss has not been getting around it, he has been avoiding it. Either by out right lying and not paying. Or by passing the buck and designating you a independent contractor thus the whole pension contribution of 9% is yours. You boss likely forgot to mention that little piece of info.

Well bmaw1 if after 2 months you are leaving Korea after finishing contract. then my advice is to shut up and hope the pension office does not come a collecting. Also do not tell the other people at the school of the shenanigans the school is doing, All it takes is one of them to start asking questions and prodding government agencies to start poking around and asking for back payment.

If you plan to work/stay in Korea after those 2 months and extended, renew, transfer visa then my advice is bring it to the pension offices attention now. If it comes up later, you might have more of a chance of employer not paying their fair share as they would say you where an IC. If you are going to be taken for a large chunk of money it is better that chunk be small as possible.
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bmaw01



Joined: 13 May 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy,

I'm going home to America in 2 months. I want to come back to Asia, but I doubt that it's going to be South Korea. I have a Thai girlfriend so I'm looking at Thailand for my next teaching job.

Anyway, I'm not saying anything. There was a girl who worked at our school who has been asking questions. She's at another school now, but I'm afraid that she may have talked to someone. I'm not certain though.
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pension office isn't going to enforce anything.

Pension is in my contract with my school paying half, but my school hasn't paid anything and neither have I. I have been to the pension office near Yatap station twice, wanting to pay my half and for my boss to pay her half. All they say is, "Talk to your boss." I have had national health insurance since March, but no pension, so you can have one without the other. The people at the pension office are too lazy to care. They're even lazier than the people at the national health insurance offices, if you can imagine that.
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is covered (depending on where you work) under the National Pension Act [NPS] or Employee Retirement Benefit Security Act [Labor Standards].

Severance is also covered under that act as well (moved from section 34 of the Labor Standards Act).

You can't opt out.

If push comes to shove you can be required to pay into the plan in a lump sum all of the outstanding back payments (unlikely as long as you work for dodgy hagwons - and very likely if you do take a government job or a position with a reputable employer (who actually follows the law) sometime in the future).

.
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tob55



Joined: 29 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: quick q. for tompatz? Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
le-paul wrote:
is the anything in the E2 visa rules/ guidelines that says a foreigner has to pay into a government/ private pension scheme?

thanks


There is nothing in the immigration/visa rules.

It IS covered under labor law and by the NPS.

There ARE exceptions: S.Africans don't pay in.

Canadians, Americans and Australians have their contributions matched by the employer (by law) and then are entitled to a refund of ALL funds when they leave.

Brits, the Irish and Kiwis have to wait till they retire to get it back.

.


I know the part about the people listed in black it true for short term stays, but once you move to the F5 and stay beyond a period of 3 years you are considered "vested" by the NPS and must also wait until retirement to get your pension refunded to you. I want to thank ttompatz for the information, but this one I know because I experienced it as an American F5 visa holder at the time. Now that I am a dual citizen of The United States and Korea it is a moot issue. I will receive nothing until retirement. Laughing
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b-class rambler



Joined: 25 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related to the above on pensions, but a question for anyone who knows for sure, not necessarily just ttompatz......

To qualify for entitlement to the Korean National Pension when you reach retirement age you have to pay into it for a minimum of 10 years, or so I understand. But if, say, you leave Korea a few years short of the 10 years, is it possible to make up the difference in voluntary payments so that your 7,8,9 or whatever years' payments don't go to waste?

My research on the NPS website suggests that some people can do this, but it seems like it was mostly people like housewives who'd quit work to raise their family and that there were only certain groups of people who could make voluntary payments.
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