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Do Korean people experience racism in Korea?
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archaeologist5



Joined: 25 Dec 2013

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why put such an inflammatory label upon the topic? Why not call it what it is--Do Koreans treat other Koreans badly?

I think people are in love with the term 'racism' and it is used to cover incidents that are clearly not racist.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
As far as racism, walk into a Taco Bell/Burger King/McD's place in Itaewon or Hongdae at 3AM and watch how the Korean staff behind the counter gets treated by a few of the foreign customers and some of the things that are said.

And there are the "I don't want to live/be/hang around them" comments that people throw out in regards to Koreans that certainly have a tinge of racism.

Foreigners who refer to a Korean man with a white woman as "backwards".

C-blocking of Korean dudes to foreign women.

Foreigners banding together in a criminal situation, regardless of the law or the truth, out of friendship and loyalty against a Korean. Although that's pretty grey as part of it is general loyalty to a friend, rather than a nationality for some of them.

It's funny how these examples are automatically treated as racism, but if the same things were reversed, you'd be the first to say they almost certainly are NOT racism.

All those things you mentioned, Koreans are certainly just as guilty of if not MORE so.

I'm almost inclined to say you're trolling... but given that's it's YOU making the statements, probably not.

"C-blocking of Korean dudes to foreign women" ? Laughing

You just spent two pages on another thread ranting about how K-blocking of foreign dudes to Korean women is NOT racism, but rather the fault of the foreigner in most cases. HYPOCRITE.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

Foreigners who refer to a Korean man with a white woman as "backwards".

C-blocking of Korean dudes to foreign women.


Yeah, can't say I've ever seen these here. I'm part of numerous "mixed couples" groups here in Korea, and have never heard of such a thing.

Now, it may have happened with your crowd, but we've established long ago - we don't hang in the same circles.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:

It's funny how these examples are automatically treated as racism, but if the same things were reversed, you'd be the first to say they almost certainly are NOT racism.

All those things you mentioned, Koreans are certainly just as guilty of if not MORE so.

I'm almost inclined to say you're trolling... but given that's it's YOU making the statements, probably not.

"C-blocking of Korean dudes to foreign women" ? Laughing

You just spent two pages on another thread ranting about how K-blocking of foreign dudes to Korean women is NOT racism, but rather the fault of the foreigner in most cases. HYPOCRITE.


First off, I said that SOMETIMES it is not racist and MIGHT have alternative motivations. I've also said that contrary to your perception, everyone at the bar doesn't suddenly turn their head and come over simply because you spoke to a Korean woman. 95% of the club continues doing their own thing.

And did you notice that I included myself as one of those people who at times "c-blocked" Korean dudes. Why? They were drunk at the time or we simply didn't want to chill with Koreans that night. Might have reacted differently to other foreigners. Sometimes the girls simply wanted to "keep it foreigner" that night, other times they thought one of the guys was cute or something and everyone else was just like "we aren't dealing with them tonight" and said if she wanted to go make friends, fine, but we aren't going to pretend to be pals with random Korean dudes that night and getting attached to them and doing the whole Korean thing because we simply aren't up for it.

As I've said, kyopos and especially adoptees you can get rejected by both sides and you can get accepted by both sides and hear some honest opinions and there's been more than a couple of guys who weren't thrilled with the idea of a Korean guy with a white girl. One time this really attractive American or Canadian girl came in with her Korean-Korean boyfriend. Now most people didn't care who she was dating, just how hot she was, but one dude started going off on how she wasn't that good looking and how she was probably just into the guy for the money (sound familiar?) Clearly he had issues.

I will also say that in my private dealings with Koreans, most racist stuff I've heard regarding foreigners is of the ignorant variety. i.e. starving Africans and arranged-marriage Indian. The big hate usual comes out for the Japanese, Chinese, and SE Asians. Now with NETs, you get some PC types who are really open-minded, but you do get a lot of cringe-worthy statements coming out of people's mouths or subtle attitudes. I've posted about NETs who insist on their students taking English names but in Korean class are unwilling to take Korean names. And we aren't even getting into racism within NET groups towards other NETs, such as anti-Jewish, anti-black, and anti-Muslim sentiment.

Honestly, I think the rates and frequencies of racism are a lot closer for foreigners and Koreans than one might think.

I think my manic personality (haphazard?) in regards to morals, chameleon like ability to adapt to different crowds, occasional sycophancy, drinking listening, enjoyment of cringe humor, libertarian attitudes, and so on somehow gets people talking around me and saying things they might not say around other people and making jokes they might not otherwise make. I've got to listen to every single group rant about every other one, including self-flagellation of one's own ethnic group/race.

One major trend- Black people really get it on the chin when it comes to racism. Muslims too. Compared to them, Koreans, Kyopos, and whites have nothing to complain about.
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byrddogs



Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Steelrails wrote:

Foreigners who refer to a Korean man with a white woman as "backwards".

C-blocking of Korean dudes to foreign women.


Yeah, can't say I've ever seen these here. I'm part of numerous "mixed couples" groups here in Korea, and have never heard of such a thing.

Now, it may have happened with your crowd, but we've established long ago - we don't hang in the same circles.


If there really is a 'circle' that SR is a part of, I can only imagine what a blast that is.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

byrddogs wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Steelrails wrote:

Foreigners who refer to a Korean man with a white woman as "backwards".

C-blocking of Korean dudes to foreign women.


Yeah, can't say I've ever seen these here. I'm part of numerous "mixed couples" groups here in Korea, and have never heard of such a thing.

Now, it may have happened with your crowd, but we've established long ago - we don't hang in the same circles.


If there really is a 'circle' that SR is a part of, I can only imagine what a blast that is.


Beats a bunch of people sitting around complaining how much the place they live in sucks but how they can't leave.

But then again, they're a lot better than Koreaboos. I'd rather hang out with bitter expats. At least they drink, listen to good music, and aren't bandwagon fans when it comes to sports.

Koreaboos? Yeah, they're happy, but also vapid and favor coffee shops over bars and talk about random people you don't care about or some stupid macaroni card their students made them. It's like being around married people but you aren't even married and its not even your own wife and kids that people are babbling about.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

byrddogs wrote:
If there really is a 'circle' that SR is a part of, I can only imagine what a blast that is.


You mean the "never actually talk about anything because you're too busy mincing your words appropriately" circle?

SteelRails wrote:
Beats a bunch of people sitting around complaining how much the place they live in sucks but how they can't leave.

But then again, they're a lot better than Koreaboos. I'd rather hang out with bitter expats. At least they drink, listen to good music, and aren't bandwagon fans when it comes to sports.

Koreaboos? Yeah, they're happy, but also vapid and favor coffee shops over bars and talk about random people you don't care about or some stupid macaroni card their students made them. It's like being around married people but you aren't even married and its not even your own wife and kids that people are babbling about.


The way you describe people in such generic groups makes me think you haven't made close connections with many people over here. Seriously, if you have been here five years, two things should have happened.

1) You should have found a group of like-minded individuals with what you consider balanced views that you can hang out with.
2) You should have reduced your posting activity on here because you have come to realize how inane the majority of people on this board are.

It's not meant as a personal slight or my attempt at playing armchair psychologist. You sound like you are stuck in the newbie wash-rinse-repeat cycle, where the entire crowd around you changes every year or two and you hear the same crap all over again. You don't want to blow your "chameleon like ability to adapt to different crowds" by ranting there so you log on to this beehive and kick it a few times.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zyzyfer wrote:
byrddogs wrote:
If there really is a 'circle' that SR is a part of, I can only imagine what a blast that is.


You mean the "never actually talk about anything because you're too busy mincing your words appropriately" circle?

SteelRails wrote:
Beats a bunch of people sitting around complaining how much the place they live in sucks but how they can't leave.

But then again, they're a lot better than Koreaboos. I'd rather hang out with bitter expats. At least they drink, listen to good music, and aren't bandwagon fans when it comes to sports.

Koreaboos? Yeah, they're happy, but also vapid and favor coffee shops over bars and talk about random people you don't care about or some stupid macaroni card their students made them. It's like being around married people but you aren't even married and its not even your own wife and kids that people are babbling about.


The way you describe people in such generic groups makes me think you haven't made close connections with many people over here. Seriously, if you have been here five years, two things should have happened.

1) You should have found a group of like-minded individuals with what you consider balanced views that you can hang out with.
2) You should have reduced your posting activity on here because you have come to realize how inane the majority of people on this board are.

It's not meant as a personal slight or my attempt at playing armchair psychologist. You sound like you are stuck in the newbie wash-rinse-repeat cycle, where the entire crowd around you changes every year or two and you hear the same crap all over again. You don't want to blow your "chameleon like ability to adapt to different crowds" by ranting there so you log on to this beehive and kick it a few times.


Partly true, not so much "newbie" as small town. But really, as soon as 5 Oclock comes and I head out into town, the entire Dave's angle really does go bye bye. I think it does for a fair number of bashers on this site and their outlook becomes rosier.

Something bout the ol office does bring out the grimness.
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ATM SPIDERTAO



Joined: 05 Jul 2009
Location: seoul, south korea

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be lots of factors here.



1. there could be genuine disgust. it's like the reaction you would give your friend for sleeping with the ugliest girl at the club. similar to stuff like saying "BEER GOOGLES". why is it OK to make fun of people who have slept with uglies and not OK for people who have slept with other races? does it hurt any less? "Ew, you slept with BOB, he's the ugliest guy i know!" versus "Ew, you slept with BOB, and he's WHITE"



2. inferiority complex of being inferior in bed and not being the sexy exotic beast and self defense mechanisming it as pure disgust





with girls i am interested in, i do option 2



with girls i don't care about, i do option 1



haha



=)
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Jodami



Joined: 08 Feb 2013

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Beats a bunch of people sitting around complaining how much the place they live in sucks but how they can't leave.


I think most came to Korea with an open mind. The complaining set in after the anti-white agenda of the Korean media, which filtered down to most of the Korean public.

Steelrails wrote:
But then again, they're a lot better than Koreaboos. I'd rather hang out with bitter expats. At least they drink, listen to good music, and aren't bandwagon fans when it comes to sports.


You mean Koreaphiles? I shit 'em. Very Happy
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oatmeal



Joined: 26 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the term "racism" has been BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION and WAY OVER USED. Americans just love using the "race" card in everything as an excuse and "free get out of jail card".

Frankly, it's not so much people are racists, but that people just don't like certain people. Are you forced to have to like everyone in this world? No. Rather than constantly bickering and crying over "racism", we need to teach people to "love" and "care" for one another. Stop using racism as a way to get what you want in life. Start promoting love, care, goodwill, and everything else positive to make your message.

Racism to me has become a child's excuse...only people who don't know how to deal with being unloved and unliked run to racism as a way to solve all their issues.

It's not racism, it's about learning how to grow up, mature, and take some responsibility in life. If I hate someone who doesn't look like me, that doesn't mean I'm a racist. It means I just don't like "that" person.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think most came to Korea with an open mind.


I think a lot of people come believing they have open minds. I also think a lot of people A)Have never been a minority and B)Hold subtle, not racist, but ingrained attitudes that they might not realize until they come here and get brought out.

I've consistently mentioned how people tend to view the people here and this country as existing to make them happy. Korea exists to fulfill someone's East Asia Vacation and/or "finding myself" journey. Or to pay off their debt. When Korea/Koreans don't fulfill those things, they become resented for for it. Much like some Koreans get angry and snarly if the foreigners they encounter don't fulfill their foreigner fantasy. This land isn't really their land, its my personal playground. The locals here are just like the staff at an amusement park- there as part of the entertainment.

Another one is the "You don't know/haven't experienced X" so your life is empty attitude. You haven't smoked weed? You haven't listened to my hipster band? Watched my favorite movie? Skateboard? OMG your life is so deprived. Sorta like Koreans who go on and on about how you haven't had this that or the other from Korea.

There's also the tendency to lump a negative Korean action into a group. A Korean commits murder or does something else, that's an example of their culture. An American or Brit? That person is a messed up individual, an outlier, an extremist. Korean shipwreck? A sign of bad culture. American shipwreck? Captain must be an idiot. Add that, the tendency to consider cool Koreans those who are more "westernized" or to credit any Korean that does something good as having had western influence. A Korean-American does something good? Well, because they are American. Does something bad or disagrees with me? Must be because they are Korean. And again, we see these attitudes in some Koreans. Bad westerners are a result of a group or culture. Cool foreigners are those that act like Koreans and the Koreaboos. And of course the reverse Korean-American argument.

Now some might look at these examples and say "blah blah blah, that may be true, but Koreans are worse/more frequent at it" or do it in some special way that makes it more hideous. And here is another example- The belief that by virtue of having been raised abroad, with all of our diversity education, that we somehow have managed to free ourselves or train ourselves from those very impulses. I'm sorry, a lot of us haven't. We're just better at hiding it now. Also, the "but they are so much worse" is just one of those ways our psyches maintain our self-esteem and deny responsibility or guilt. It's another dodge tactic.

The fact is that some people coming here do not yet consider Koreans as equal individuals, with their dreams and aspirations. They are not quite fellow human beings, but some sort of anthropomorphic curiosity. An animated caricature of this strange land.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
They are not quite fellow human beings, but some sort of anthropomorphic curiosity. An animated caricature of this strange land.


Yes, that's how I would describe SteelRails on ESLCafe.

(couldn't resist!)
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

archaeologist5 wrote:
Why put such an inflammatory label upon the topic? Why not call it what it is--Do Koreans treat other Koreans badly?

I think people are in love with the term 'racism' and it is used to cover incidents that are clearly not racist.


I agree. Not to mention there is no way you can clearly define what is racism. However if you ask me if I personally have experienced and observed other Koreans being treated differently (sometimes negatively) by Koreans solely because they are Korean, then yes, that happens.

I and most of my Korean friends hang out with foreigners and we speak English. On rare occasions we'll meet Koreans who'll start shit with us for speaking English. Some older guys give me shit for not being Korean enough, meaning I should act a certain way in accordance to my genetic features. Then there are Korean girls who are out specifically on the hunt for white guys and they don't give me the time and day because they assume I'm Korean when they see my asian face.

Is it racism? I don't know nor do I really care. I see it as discrimination but we all do it in one way or another.
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