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What country has the richest middle class?
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guavashake



Joined: 09 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edward Snowden: Person of the Year

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/12/edward-snowden-person-of-the-year-2854870.html

But outside of America Snowden is treated with all the respect he deserves. Legislators in the Brazilian government requested his help in determining the extent of spying in that country. In an open letter to the people of Brazil he explained that his inability to gain permanent asylum in any country makes it impossible for him to work freely as he would like.

Of course the corporate media twisted these simple and easily verified facts into a tale of treason. They falsely said that Snowden offered to spy for Brazil in exchange for being granted asylum. Brazil is among the many nations he asked for asylum but was denied because of pressure from the American government. Now he is being vilified because he again shows the extent of outrage around the world which is directed at the United States.

Snowden has beaten the Bush/Obama administration at its own game and in so doing has given people another reason to be hopeful. That impact alone makes him the Person of the Year.
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guavashake



Joined: 09 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edward Snowden nominated for Nobel Peace Prize for making the world safer

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-30/edward-snowden-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-for-making-the-w/5226660

A Norwegian politician has nominated former United States National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden for the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize on Wednesday, arguing his release of classified documents made the world a safer place.

"His actions have in effect led to the reintroduction of trust and transparency as a leading principle in global security policies."
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chellovek



Joined: 29 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Maybe they get as much "bang for their buck" considering they are paying less bucks in the first place. U.S. taxes are very low. Taxes for the middle class are very low. Average working Joes aren't forced to finance the life of poor people as much as is the case elsewhere. Is that bad that there is less forced wealth redistribution from the middle class to the lower class? If people want to go to college, they must pay for it themselves (partly). That is fair. (Why should others have to pick up the tab?) Same with other things like child care and health care. I'm glad the U.S. is more libertarian than socialist. It's part of what makes the country so great.

https://www.facebook.com/yaliberty/photos/a.420478680196.191456.13187955196/10152052657615197


Well according to the link you posted, with regards to what you seem to be lamenting and with regards to what I put in bold- yes.

As the NYT goes on to attempt to explain the slippage in America's dominance-

"The United States also tolerates more inequality: The minimum wage is lower here. Executives make more money. The government redistributes less of it. By 2010, the poor in several other countries had pulled ahead."

Also looking at the various links posted on this thread, most of the countries doing well do have a socialist streak running through their social policies, think it's the one about median income.

It's a mad bad world out there, my chum. Some folk seem to do things a different way (even sometimes doing them a bit socialistic!) and get on just fine Shocked
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not the US according the the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/26/middle-class-american-dream-just-dream
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brooks wrote:


Things like NAFTA hurt the middle class in the US, but probably in Canada as well.


Actually it was beneficial for Canada's middle class

Quote:
U.S. investment provided higher-paying jobs in the automotive, agri-business, energy, aerospace and transportation sectors, among others. This added to the ranks of the Canadian middle class and increased the level of secondary education in the population. It also provided jobs for the wave of immigrants from India and Pakistan who are currently residing in Canada.



As for the U.S they did lose a ton of manufacturing jobs...but there were also beneficial effects.


Quote:
U.S. economic winners and losers under NAFTA vary with company size, type of industry or sector, and geographical location. Sectors affected positively include planes, trains and automobiles, large agri-businesses, appliance makers and energy corporations.



Quote:
Conclusion
While NAFTA's overall financial impact has been generally positive, it has not lived up to the high expectations of its proponents. It has made many U.S. companies and investors rich - and their managements richer. But it has also cost many U.S. manufacturing workers their livelihoods while failing to raise living standards for most Mexicans. Any major market changes not dictated by market forces usually lead to both opportunity and loss, and this has happened with NAFTA.


http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/north-american-free-trade-agreement.asp
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Not the US according the the Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/26/middle-class-american-dream-just-dream

According to the commentary…
The American Dream is now just that for its middle classes – a dream
For years, the US enjoyed unrivalled prosperity - and its middle classes were the envy of the world. No longer. Last week, a study of decades of economic data concluded that the US had fallen behind other nations, apart, that is, from the super-rich
…one would assume the U.S. is in the gutter.

But look at the numbers the article is citing:

Which country had the highest after-tax income level?

95th percentile: United States
90th percentile: United States
80th percentile: United States
70th percentile: United States
60th percentile: United States
Median: United States and Canada [tie]
40th percentile: Canada
30th percentile: Canada
20th percentile: Netherlands
10th percentile: Netherlands
5th percentile: Netherlands


The United States is dominating the rankings. Is it fair to say, "the US had fallen behind other nations, apart, that is, from the super-rich"? Absolutely not.

Is it fair to for the Guardian to say, "If you’re a proud member of America’s middle class, you may have been startled to learn last week that your after-tax income now makes you worse off than your Canadian neighbors to the north. They can now claim the title of the richest middle class on the planet."? Maybe. But to say "The American Dream is now just that for its middle classes – a dream" is way out of line.
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Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Gold Coast

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: What country has the richest middle class? Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
For years and years and years, the answer was the United States (without a shadow of a doubt). Now, it appears to be a tie between the U.S. and Canada. For the upper 50% of the population, the United States is by far the best overall. But for those at the very middle (50th percentile), Canada may be the winner. Same for those mildly to moderately below average. As an American, it saddens me to see the U.S. no longer a clear #1 (but rather just a maybe at this point)…BUT…#2 in the world out of 201 countries is not bad. It's still pretty good. And maybe I could move to Canada and work there. AND maybe in the United States I could join the upper 40% of society, upper 30%, upper 20% or even upper 10% of wage earners. In that case, America can't be beat when it comes to highest after tax incomes. Anyways, I just wanted to share this good news for those of us who may one day move home to Canada or the United States. (Most of us do eventually.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/this-simple-table-summarizes-our-story-on-american-living-standards.html?action=click&contentCollection=The%20Upshot&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article


To bad much of it has been achieved on the government credit card.

What is the correct terminology for one thousand trillion?
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Public Debt to GDP Ratio

Ireland: 130%

United Kingdom: 92%

Canada: 84%

United States: 77%
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Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Gold Coast

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Public Debt to GDP Ratio

Ireland: 130%

United Kingdom: 92%

Canada: 84%

United States: 77%


exactly
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly? The level of public debt in Japan in 2014 is 350% of GDP. The U.S. is not anywhere near the worst off when it comes to total governmental debt compared to its yearly market value.
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Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Gold Coast

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Exactly? The level of public debt in Japan in 2014 is 350% of GDP. The U.S. is not anywhere near the worst off when it comes to total governmental debt compared to its yearly market value.



Didn't say it was the worst.

So you have no problem with the hundreds of billions of dollars outlaid in interest payments each year? (that would pay for a couple of Obamacares)

About a third of it going to foreign investors of treasury bonds and such.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Axiom wrote:
World Traveler wrote:
Exactly? The level of public debt in Japan in 2014 is 350% of GDP. The U.S. is not anywhere near the worst off when it comes to total governmental debt compared to its yearly market value.



Didn't say it was the worst.

So you have no problem with the hundreds of billions of dollars outlaid in interest payments each year? (that would pay for a couple of Obamacares)

About a third of it going to foreign investors of treasury bonds and such.


The last sentence is the problem. When the U.S. government was paying off Treasury war bonds in the 50s and 60s, it was almost entirely domestic. The interest was enriching America.
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really a problem. The United States is by far the wealthiest country on earth. It doesn't need to exclusively enrich itself.
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Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Gold Coast

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Axiom wrote:
World Traveler wrote:
Exactly? The level of public debt in Japan in 2014 is 350% of GDP. The U.S. is not anywhere near the worst off when it comes to total governmental debt compared to its yearly market value.



Didn't say it was the worst.

So you have no problem with the hundreds of billions of dollars outlaid in interest payments each year? (that would pay for a couple of Obamacares)

About a third of it going to foreign investors of treasury bonds and such.


The last sentence is the problem. When the U.S. government was paying off Treasury war bonds in the 50s and 60s, it was almost entirely domestic. The interest was enriching America.


I would have thought that with the ageing population, that all westernised economies are experiencing, that the second sentence is equally alarming. For the last decade, governments around the world should have been amassing massive surpluses to pay for the rapidly increasing cost of aged care and health.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

World Traveler wrote:
Not really a problem. The United States is by far the wealthiest country on earth. It doesn't need to exclusively enrich itself.



It is also by far the greatest debtor.

http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/recent_debt

And where are you getting this 77% figure from?

According to the above link it's over 100%
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