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animal abuse
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postfundie



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What this thread boils down to is intelligent people, whom are bored, trying to "teach" a moron something. (That intended cruelty is much worse than humane death. It's a philosophical angle. Maybe that's why he doesn't get it.)



you can't argue with someone who takes an extreme nationalist position. Whatever atrociticies take place, whatever injustices exist, whatever wrong that is done, will always be justified because somebody else did it somewhere else. It's a stubborn douche bag defending other stubborn douche bags.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

postfundie wrote:
Quote:
What this thread boils down to is intelligent people, whom are bored, trying to "teach" a moron something. (That intended cruelty is much worse than humane death. It's a philosophical angle. Maybe that's why he doesn't get it.)



you can't argue with someone who takes an extreme nationalist position. Whatever atrociticies take place, whatever injustices exist, whatever wrong that is done, will always be justified because somebody else did it somewhere else. It's a stubborn douche bag defending other stubborn douche bags.


You misunderstand me. I do not justify it. I am merely pointing out that the self-righteous, judgmental attitude toward one nation, rather than the phenomenon as a whole is unjustified. Furthermore it is to drive home the point that killing animals, even quickly, is still cruel. If you can't understand that, then you are lying to yourself. Worse still, are the meat eaters who sit in judgment, but haven't spent any significant amount of time killing and gutting their meat.

The question is twofold- 1)If you consume meat, as a normal person in the developed world, are you being cruel to animals? 2) If you are being cruel yourself, is it fair to judge others for their cruelty?
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was an abused kitten rescued in Haman. It lost an eye and has a broken jaw amongst other things. Here is the site where people are making donations. Warning the picture is very graphic. Link
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

le-paul wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
Korea hasn't even figured out how to treat people properly. Why should they care about animals right now?


In their defense I don't think any country has figured out how to treat animals or people properly.


its a shame you think like that.

Yeah even though it's a fact.

le-paul wrote:
Billy the kid was running about shooting people in the US.

So what does that have to do with animal rights American-baiter? The U.S. has laws regarding humane treatment of animals just like any other country. Scientists can't experiment on vertebrates (any vertebrate) without showing that there is a good chance that it will add needed knowledge to science. If you intentionally step (stomp) on a mouse or a rat in the U.S. you will go to jail if the authorities know about it and can prove it.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

catman wrote:
There was an abused kitten rescued in Haman. It lost an eye and has a broken jaw amongst other things. Here is the site where people are making donations. Warning the picture is very graphic. Link

Sad.
Cats are pretty durable, so someone would have to REALLY be going to town on it to do that kind of damage, as in trying to kill it but unsuccessfully.

It also seems to be common in Korea. Many of them hate cats.
My gf has encountered several instances of house cats with major damage done to them. One was by an owner, where the husband broke the wife's cat's jaw and abused it to the point where it would freeze up and pee when it saw him. Anyone who knows cats would know that's a sign of extreme fear. What kind of man does that to a cat? A sick F**k.

Another friend's house cat got it's jaw and leg broken and had multiple impact wounds when some people (teens/kids?) took it and messed it up for no reason.

Kids in the apartment complex commonly hunt kittens with rocks and sticks and when you reprimand the kids, they show no sign of remorse or idea that it could be cruel in any way. Sympathy for animals is not really a part of the culture.

Another thing my gf read about was that many vets here keep a caged cat in-house as a prisoner to draw blood from. Don't know how common that is but many vets do seem to have cats in small dirty cages here. Not to mention at least half the vets we've known here have an active dislike or complete disinterest in cats or animals in general.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
le-paul wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
Korea hasn't even figured out how to treat people properly. Why should they care about animals right now?


In their defense I don't think any country has figured out how to treat animals or people properly.


its a shame you think like that.

Yeah even though it's a fact.

le-paul wrote:
Billy the kid was running about shooting people in the US.

So what does that have to do with animal rights American-baiter? The U.S. has laws regarding humane treatment of animals just like any other country. Scientists can't experiment on vertebrates (any vertebrate) without showing that there is a good chance that it will add needed knowledge to science. If you intentionally step (stomp) on a mouse or a rat in the U.S. you will go to jail if the authorities know about it and can prove it.


Haha!

You really do have a personal vendetta against me dont you? Laughing

Apart from taking my comments out of context and then arguing against them, you drag up a comment I made over a year ago. That's tantamount to arguing with yourself.

I haven't time to come on here much these days, and I dont think I will in the near future. So I wont have time to allow you to attempt to provoke me into a petty bickering situation, nor read through your posts to see if youve said anything against me - but obviously you do! - Good job! high five!
So maybe its better if you just PM me and then I can check quicker? Just an idea? Wink
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pzebra



Joined: 12 May 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be more peaceful and compassionate. Don't eat animals and soon you'll realize not to abuse them.
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schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: sokcho

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

schwa wrote:
I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.

Everyone draws lines in different places regarding what they are willing to do, and it's rarely that consistent. Therefore, anyone can feel sympathy and decide to rescue an animal regardless of what they ate that day.

It's not like someone sees a lost dog and says:
"Hmm, I should help that dog, but .... uh oh! I'm not vegetarian! I eat meat. Meat is from animals. I don't wanna be inconsistent in any way! I guess I shouldn't help that dog after all. Sorry Fido, good luck with your broken leg."

That's a bit too extremist for most, wouldn't you agree?
There's consistency... and there's just ridiculousness.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:
schwa wrote:
I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.

Everyone draws lines in different places regarding what they are willing to do, and it's rarely that consistent. Therefore, anyone can feel sympathy and decide to rescue an animal regardless of what they ate that day.

It's not like someone sees a lost dog and says:
"Hmm, I should help that dog, but .... uh oh! I'm not vegetarian! I eat meat. Meat is from animals. I don't wanna be inconsistent in any way! I guess I shouldn't help that dog after all. Sorry Fido, good luck with your broken leg."

That's a bit too extremist for most, wouldn't you agree?
There's consistency... and there's just ridiculousness.


Agreed. Same goes with eating dog because one is not a vegetarian and thus it's logically the thing to do as a meat-eater. If anything I prefer to cut down on my meat intake and stick with the non-intelligent animals (more shrimp, less beef), not expand my palate because it would be the logical thing to do as a non-vegetarian.

A lot of vegans don't like this talk because of the 'inconsistency', but applied on a large scale this is the best way for those that don't want to entirely give up meat to almost do it.

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian
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denverdeath



Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mithridates wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
schwa wrote:
I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.

Everyone draws lines in different places regarding what they are willing to do, and it's rarely that consistent. Therefore, anyone can feel sympathy and decide to rescue an animal regardless of what they ate that day.

It's not like someone sees a lost dog and says:
"Hmm, I should help that dog, but .... uh oh! I'm not vegetarian! I eat meat. Meat is from animals. I don't wanna be inconsistent in any way! I guess I shouldn't help that dog after all. Sorry Fido, good luck with your broken leg."

That's a bit too extremist for most, wouldn't you agree?
There's consistency... and there's just ridiculousness.


Agreed. Same goes with eating dog because one is not a vegetarian and thus it's logically the thing to do as a meat-eater. If anything I prefer to cut down on my meat intake and stick with the non-intelligent animals (more shrimp, less beef), not expand my palate because it would be the logical thing to do as a non-vegetarian.

A lot of vegans don't like this talk because of the 'inconsistency', but applied on a large scale this is the best way for those that don't want to entirely give up meat to almost do it.

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian


I think people should eat more people. Most Koreans don't like it when I say that when they say dog is just meat. True, it is just meat. However, I do like cats, and the kitten posted a bit earlier was a bit disturbing. Some grandma probably had thoughts of gettin the kinks out of her back by chowing that one down. She started with the eyes as, as you know, like fish eyes, they have LOTS of protein. Honestly? I'd prefer the butchers to put all that Sh!t into hotdogs so I can enjoy it all shamelessly. Most Koreans are also shocked to hear that eating dog meat is not illegal in Canada. Strange that usually it's only the triad individuals that are opening the shops though, eh? And, those kinds of shops are usually not all that popular there either. Wonder why? Culture. That's why.
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pzebra



Joined: 12 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mix1 wrote:
schwa wrote:
I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.

Everyone draws lines in different places regarding what they are willing to do, and it's rarely that consistent. Therefore, anyone can feel sympathy and decide to rescue an animal regardless of what they ate that day.

It's not like someone sees a lost dog and says:
"Hmm, I should help that dog, but .... uh oh! I'm not vegetarian! I eat meat. Meat is from animals. I don't wanna be inconsistent in any way! I guess I shouldn't help that dog after all. Sorry Fido, good luck with your broken leg."

That's a bit too extremist for most, wouldn't you agree?
There's consistency... and there's just ridiculousness.


Consistency is if you care enough about the abuse if household animals, you should think about the abuse of all animals go through for human taste and traditions.

Would it be better if you saved a dog and continue eating hundreds of animals a year instead of just eating hundreds of animals a year and letting a dog die? Marginally yes. Still the act of eating meat is evil whether one or a million.
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denverdeath



Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pzebra wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
schwa wrote:
I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.

Everyone draws lines in different places regarding what they are willing to do, and it's rarely that consistent. Therefore, anyone can feel sympathy and decide to rescue an animal regardless of what they ate that day.

It's not like someone sees a lost dog and says:
"Hmm, I should help that dog, but .... uh oh! I'm not vegetarian! I eat meat. Meat is from animals. I don't wanna be inconsistent in any way! I guess I shouldn't help that dog after all. Sorry Fido, good luck with your broken leg."

That's a bit too extremist for most, wouldn't you agree?
There's consistency... and there's just ridiculousness.


Consistency is if you care enough about the abuse if household animals, you should think about the abuse of all animals go through for human taste and traditions.

Would it be better if you saved a dog and continue eating hundreds of animals a year instead of just eating hundreds of animals a year and letting a dog die? Marginally yes. Still the act of eating meat is evil whether one or a million.


actually, i think there IS a difference. i can slaughter a cow, kitten, dog, you, a carrot, or whatever quickly for consumption. however, i could also use a cattle prod on a cow, kitten, dog, you, carrot, or whatever everyday for every second laughing gleefully with every cry of distress i hear. therein lies the difference for most "humane" people, whether they b vegheads or carnivores. i could just pull a carrot up a bit, everyday, a few millimeters, for a yr. i'd see that as pretty inhumane too...just lettin it rot in the sand. people who don't water their flowers when they should are inconsiderate. nobody really cares about anything/anyone but themselves, so why not just eat what you want? my sis is a veg. she eats fish and eggs though. i hope that she wouldn't eat "Rosa" our goldfish though as i'm gettin a bit attached to her. also, my spectacular daughter named her, and we all like her, the fish, that is. wait, we also like my daughter, and my sis, too, even though she enjoys wearin big boots made from cowhide??? i, too, like fish, and feel somewhat guilty when i'm slicing up tuna or salmon for our little kitties in front of the fish. oh, have i digressed??? anyway, i don't feel that i or my family, who are meat lovers, are evil, as you put it. i also don't think you are a saint just because you eat veggies only.
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pzebra



Joined: 12 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

denverdeath wrote:
pzebra wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
schwa wrote:
I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.

Everyone draws lines in different places regarding what they are willing to do, and it's rarely that consistent. Therefore, anyone can feel sympathy and decide to rescue an animal regardless of what they ate that day.

It's not like someone sees a lost dog and says:
"Hmm, I should help that dog, but .... uh oh! I'm not vegetarian! I eat meat. Meat is from animals. I don't wanna be inconsistent in any way! I guess I shouldn't help that dog after all. Sorry Fido, good luck with your broken leg."

That's a bit too extremist for most, wouldn't you agree?
There's consistency... and there's just ridiculousness.


Consistency is if you care enough about the abuse if household animals, you should think about the abuse of all animals go through for human taste and traditions.

Would it be better if you saved a dog and continue eating hundreds of animals a year instead of just eating hundreds of animals a year and letting a dog die? Marginally yes. Still the act of eating meat is evil whether one or a million.


actually, i think there IS a difference. i can slaughter a cow, kitten, dog, you, a carrot, or whatever quickly for consumption. however, i could also use a cattle prod on a cow, kitten, dog, you, carrot, or whatever everyday for every second laughing gleefully with every cry of distress i hear. therein lies the difference for most "humane" people, whether they b vegheads or carnivores. i could just pull a carrot up a bit, everyday, a few millimeters, for a yr. i'd see that as pretty inhumane too...just lettin it rot in the sand. people who don't water their flowers when they should are inconsiderate. nobody really cares about anything/anyone but themselves, so why not just eat what you want? my sis is a veg. she eats fish and eggs though. i hope that she wouldn't eat "Rosa" our goldfish though as i'm gettin a bit attached to her. also, my spectacular daughter named her, and we all like her, the fish, that is. wait, we also like my daughter, and my sis, too, even though she enjoys wearin big boots made from cowhide??? i, too, like fish, and feel somewhat guilty when i'm slicing up tuna or salmon for our little kitties in front of the fish. oh, have i digressed??? anyway, i don't feel that i or my family, who are meat lovers, are evil, as you put it. i also don't think you are a saint just because you eat veggies only.


Never said anyone was evil. I said the act of killing animals is evil. Neither does being veggie makes you a saint. It's just a step to being more compassionate and loving. Being veggie is not the end goal.

If you really think farm animals have a happy life and die quickly, you really need to go to a farm and see the horrors for yourself. That's assuming the farms let you see their torture and killing facilities. Slaughter houses today are trying to make it illegal to film abuse by humans on animals (which is already against the law).

If you are really comparing a carrot to cow, please look into the word sentient. Heck if you really want to be sure, try slowly "torturing" the carrot and then "quickly" slaughter a animal. Then tell us if they are the same.

The whole point is people love dogs and cats. Try to have more empathy and expand your love to all sentient beings
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pzebra wrote:
Mix1 wrote:
schwa wrote:
I wonder what percentage of pet rescuers are vegetarian, & if not where & why they draw the line between killing some animals & not others.

Everyone draws lines in different places regarding what they are willing to do, and it's rarely that consistent. Therefore, anyone can feel sympathy and decide to rescue an animal regardless of what they ate that day.

It's not like someone sees a lost dog and says:
"Hmm, I should help that dog, but .... uh oh! I'm not vegetarian! I eat meat. Meat is from animals. I don't wanna be inconsistent in any way! I guess I shouldn't help that dog after all. Sorry Fido, good luck with your broken leg."

That's a bit too extremist for most, wouldn't you agree?
There's consistency... and there's just ridiculousness.


Consistency is if you care enough about the abuse if household animals, you should think about the abuse of all animals go through for human taste and traditions.

Would it be better if you saved a dog and continue eating hundreds of animals a year instead of just eating hundreds of animals a year and letting a dog die? Marginally yes. Still the act of eating meat is evil whether one or a million.

I was vegan for ten years, which is probably longer than you'll stick to it once you find a new issue to prattle on about.

Rescuing an animal and eating meat are separate issues. No reason to badger people about it and try to tell them they are being inconsistent. That kind of extreme attitude really turns people off from the whole vegetarian thing, doing the opposite of what you might hope to do. I'm all for people eating less meat if that's what they want to do, but I'm done with the extremist route.

Not to mention, your logic isn't even correct: It would be WORSE to save the dog because he'll be eating a lifetime worth of dog food made from OTHER ANIMALS. So if YOU want to be consistent, just say you are against saving animals in the first place. Hope you don't have any pets or you might have to put them down to be consistent.

You might want to stop paying taxes too, as your tax dollars go to subsidizing the factory farms that kill animals for meat.
Might want to stop driving too, as your tires have animal products in them, as do a heck of a lot of other products you might be using.
And you should think about all the animals that died to make the farm fields that were made to grow your veggies. Yup, the bunnies, mice, birds, moles, foxes, prairie dogs, etc. that got plowed to make your fields. Maybe free range, grass fed beef is the way to go if you want to reduce killing animals properly.
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