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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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For anyone who is cheering on Mr. Hussain in his criminal case here...
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| What was different this time, however, was that, once it was reported in the South Korean media, prosecutors sprang into action, charging the man they have identified only as a 31-year-old Mr. Park with contempt |
Do any of our western homelands have laws criminalizing something called "contempt"(I mean, besides "contempt of court")? It sounds like a very ill-defined and nebulous charge to me. In fact, I think it's the kind of thing which, in any other circumstance, we would be pointing to as an example of the capricious and arbitrary nature of certain aspects of the Korean justice system.
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Police in Busan have booked nine foreigners in Busan for putting on an unapproved performance that allegedly degraded Korean culture, reports the Kyunghyang Shinmun.
The paper noted that they were booked (but not detained) on procedural grounds (you must seek permission from authorities before holding a performance), but controversy was expected since it was possible police were more concerned about what was said during the performance than the paperwork before it.
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Okay, these guys weren't charged under the "contempt" laws, apparently, but it does go to show how the law in Korea often gets employed as a convenient weapon-at-hand to advance some sort of narrow sociopolitical agenda(in this case, I would assume, protecting the patriotic feelings of Koreans). And I think that something like that might have been going on with the decision to prosecute Mr. Hussain's drunken tormentor on the bus. I really question whether the prosecutors thought that Kim had violated a specifically defined law, or if they just found his behaviour embarrassing to Korea(what with the Indian FTA in the works), and wanted to save face by making an example of him. I'd really be curious to know what other sorts of actions have been prosecuted under these "contempt" laws.
Even in Canada, where we have laws against promoting hatred, I've never heard of anyone being charged with that simply for hurling abuse on the street. Usually, you have to prove that the person made a deliberate and premeditated attempt to get other people to hate members of a certain group. The closest I can think of to the Hussain case in Canada would be that of David Akenahew, and even that involved remarks made to a news reporter for publication, and eventually resulted in an acquittal.
I dunno. Maybe people back in our motherlands do get charged for random insults on the street. For the most part, though, this Korean "contempt" law strikes me as somewhat authoritarian in its underpinnings, and I'm surprised to see so many people on here supporting its application.
The Marmot's Hole |
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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:00 am Post subject: |
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"I remember hearing some Western expats complain that they were not provided with chopsticks -- and instead were given a fork and spoon in a Korean restaurant -- and they felt discriminated against."
-Bonojit Hussain
It is insulting to be treated like a special needs child who has trouble doing something simple like using chopsticks. However, plenty of western men have also experienced more serious discrimination. Some posters have shared their experiences here about being harassed for being with Korean women. Some have even been beaten and murdered. The National Human Rights Commission did not get involved in those cases but they did after Hussain was harassed. Rereading about this case makes me wonder if racism against westerners is taken less seriously here.
"Just a few years ago, an American soldier who touched the behind of a Korean woman -- his wife -- set off a brawl that led to his arrest and to denunciations in the press about the American military threat to Korean women. A few years before that, an American sergeant-major was beaten to death by a Korean man who objected to the American escorting a Korean girlfriend."
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/02/world/seoul-journal-casanovas-beware-it-s-risky-for-non-koreans.html |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
Wow, for the Indian media to be "outraged" over this incident is extremely hypocritical in my opinion.
It's not like India is the baston of tollerence. Try talking to a Indian woman while in India. |
I think it would be unfair to paint all of India as being intolerant. Also, you should realize that India is hardly in a comparable situation with respect to South Korea socioeconomically speaking. Only 10% of its population is well educated whereas in South Korea, most people have a university education.
By the way, did you know that there is a kind of affirmative action for people from lower castes? I know this true at least for university acceptances. |
Have you ever been to India?
It's a beautiful country with a lot of great things to see and do. But again, Koreans a light years ahead of Indians when it comes to inter-racial tolerance. |
I have not been to India yet, but I am planning to go to Kerala sometime next year.
Again, like I said, it does not make much sense to compare India to South Korea. It would make more sense perhaps to compare it to nations such as the Philippines which is probably at a somewhat similar socioeconomic situation in terms of education and income.
Regardless of all those things, Mr. Hussain or anyone else who is being mistreated has every right as a human being to fight for their rights. |
Let me take a page out of the Korea Basher brotherhood:
"Look, just because India is not as developed doesn't excuse their racism. You are just making EXCUSES for them. Please stop making excuses for their racism. Saying that just because they haven't had as much time as other countries to become like them socioeconomically doesn't excuse their behavior!" |
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coralreefer_1
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
"I remember hearing some Western expats complain that they were not provided with chopsticks -- and instead were given a fork and spoon in a Korean restaurant -- and they felt discriminated against."
-Bonojit Hussain
It is insulting to be treated like a special needs child who has trouble doing something simple like using chopsticks. However, plenty of western men have also experienced more serious discrimination. Some posters have shared their experiences here about being harassed for being with Korean women. Some have even been beaten and murdered. The National Human Rights Commission did not get involved in those cases but they did after Hussain was harassed. Rereading about this case makes me wonder if racism against westerners is taken less seriously here.
"Just a few years ago, an American soldier who touched the behind of a Korean woman -- his wife -- set off a brawl that led to his arrest and to denunciations in the press about the American military threat to Korean women. A few years before that, an American sergeant-major was beaten to death by a Korean man who objected to the American escorting a Korean girlfriend."
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/02/world/seoul-journal-casanovas-beware-it-s-risky-for-non-koreans.html |
LOL..I walk around Daegu (a place considered one of the more conservative areas in Korea) every darn day practically with a Korean woman whom I have been with for almost 6 years exactly..a woman fine enough to be a model (she is a cosmetics model actually) and 10 years my junior.
Not even once in all of these years have we EVER had an issue. Honestly I cant even recall anyone ever saying anything to us at all...though there may have been one occasion when some punk (some low brow cellphone store dealer) might have made a comment....but did so in such a low voice that it was clear he was stroking his own ego/dealing with his own insecurities.
All these stories about getting spit on/assaulted/cussed out..etc, are something that I find hard to believe. And I say that not because it is hard to believe, but rather because (and I dont mean to toot my own horn here) that my lady is literally the kind of woman old men at Samsung want to marry their rich kids off to. In short, shes the kind of Korean that Korean men not only want...but approach cold.
Yet if her with her fine self, and me with my big nose/short stature self cant get even the slightest bit of hate here in Daegu of all places...then it seems the issue and stories we have heard have been blown way out of proportion. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| 3DR wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
Wow, for the Indian media to be "outraged" over this incident is extremely hypocritical in my opinion.
It's not like India is the baston of tollerence. Try talking to a Indian woman while in India. |
I think it would be unfair to paint all of India as being intolerant. Also, you should realize that India is hardly in a comparable situation with respect to South Korea socioeconomically speaking. Only 10% of its population is well educated whereas in South Korea, most people have a university education.
By the way, did you know that there is a kind of affirmative action for people from lower castes? I know this true at least for university acceptances. |
Have you ever been to India?
It's a beautiful country with a lot of great things to see and do. But again, Koreans a light years ahead of Indians when it comes to inter-racial tolerance. |
I have not been to India yet, but I am planning to go to Kerala sometime next year.
Again, like I said, it does not make much sense to compare India to South Korea. It would make more sense perhaps to compare it to nations such as the Philippines which is probably at a somewhat similar socioeconomic situation in terms of education and income.
Regardless of all those things, Mr. Hussain or anyone else who is being mistreated has every right as a human being to fight for their rights. |
Let me take a page out of the Korea Basher brotherhood:
"Look, just because India is not as developed doesn't excuse their racism. You are just making EXCUSES for them. Please stop making excuses for their racism. Saying that just because they haven't had as much time as other countries to become like them socioeconomically doesn't excuse their behavior!" |
So, let me get this straight. Because I was sympathetic to Bonojit's situation in which he was taking verbal abuse along with his Korean lady friend being physically assaulted by a drunk Korean man, this somehow makes me a Korea basher. And of course, you are responding to comments made nearly 5 years ago. You must have a little too much time on your hands.
Also, you should improve your reading skills. I do not condone racism or any other types of petty hatred. The bottom line is that the different problems faced by South Korea and India should not be considered interdependent. Yes, India should do its best to get rid of caste discrimination, but this absolutely should not have any bearing on difficulties faced by Indians (or by anyone else of any nationality for that matter) in South Korea.
By the way, at the Korean university where I previously worked, I had several Indian colleagues who only made two thirds of my salary simply because they were Indian and I was American (although the university would never admit to this being the justification). And keep in mind, I was only teaching, but in fact, compared to most of their Korean colleagues in the department in question, my Indian colleagues were publishing more research papers in well regarded journals. Anyways, I would hope that if they ever were to protest about their salary being unfair, they would not have to deal with other people criticizing them and having some irrelevant issue about India come up. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
"I remember hearing some Western expats complain that they were not provided with chopsticks -- and instead were given a fork and spoon in a Korean restaurant -- and they felt discriminated against."
-Bonojit Hussain
It is insulting to be treated like a special needs child who has trouble doing something simple like using chopsticks. However, plenty of western men have also experienced more serious discrimination. Some posters have shared their experiences here about being harassed for being with Korean women. Some have even been beaten and murdered. The National Human Rights Commission did not get involved in those cases but they did after Hussain was harassed. Rereading about this case makes me wonder if racism against westerners is taken less seriously here.
"Just a few years ago, an American soldier who touched the behind of a Korean woman -- his wife -- set off a brawl that led to his arrest and to denunciations in the press about the American military threat to Korean women. A few years before that, an American sergeant-major was beaten to death by a Korean man who objected to the American escorting a Korean girlfriend."
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/02/world/seoul-journal-casanovas-beware-it-s-risky-for-non-koreans.html |
Actually, I exchanged an email with Bonojit and it was his intent to get Westerners to add those sorts of grievances to the narrative of what was then being discussed. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
| ghostrider wrote: |
"I remember hearing some Western expats complain that they were not provided with chopsticks -- and instead were given a fork and spoon in a Korean restaurant -- and they felt discriminated against."
-Bonojit Hussain
It is insulting to be treated like a special needs child who has trouble doing something simple like using chopsticks. However, plenty of western men have also experienced more serious discrimination. Some posters have shared their experiences here about being harassed for being with Korean women. Some have even been beaten and murdered. The National Human Rights Commission did not get involved in those cases but they did after Hussain was harassed. Rereading about this case makes me wonder if racism against westerners is taken less seriously here.
"Just a few years ago, an American soldier who touched the behind of a Korean woman -- his wife -- set off a brawl that led to his arrest and to denunciations in the press about the American military threat to Korean women. A few years before that, an American sergeant-major was beaten to death by a Korean man who objected to the American escorting a Korean girlfriend."
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/02/world/seoul-journal-casanovas-beware-it-s-risky-for-non-koreans.html |
LOL..I walk around Daegu (a place considered one of the more conservative areas in Korea) every darn day practically with a Korean woman whom I have been with for almost 6 years exactly..a woman fine enough to be a model (she is a cosmetics model actually) and 10 years my junior.
Not even once in all of these years have we EVER had an issue. Honestly I cant even recall anyone ever saying anything to us at all...though there may have been one occasion when some punk (some low brow cellphone store dealer) might have made a comment....but did so in such a low voice that it was clear he was stroking his own ego/dealing with his own insecurities.
All these stories about getting spit on/assaulted/cussed out..etc, are something that I find hard to believe. And I say that not because it is hard to believe, but rather because (and I dont mean to toot my own horn here) that my lady is literally the kind of woman old men at Samsung want to marry their rich kids off to. In short, shes the kind of Korean that Korean men not only want...but approach cold.
Yet if her with her fine self, and me with my big nose/short stature self cant get even the slightest bit of hate here in Daegu of all places...then it seems the issue and stories we have heard have been blown way out of proportion. |
Is Daegu the city that has a little side street not far from the fire-station, where if you happen to wander off the beaten track, down it by accident and you are a foreigner (male or female), you get beaten into a bloody pulp? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| It's been more mild the last 2 or 3 years. Some newer foriegners probably have no idea how things really were until recently. Last decade, especially in a rural area, was far far worse. It resembled Seoul in the 90's in some ways. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| It's been more mild the last 2 or 3 years. Some newer foriegners probably have no idea how things really were until recently. Last decade, especially in a rural area, was far far worse. It resembled Seoul in the 90's in some ways. |
Nothing like being c blocked galore or even having girls get stared at or called names for being with you. You couldn't even punch the arsehole in the face because the cops would take his racist side. But, I'm sure it was mild comapred to the 80's and 90's where you'd get into a fight or maybe get killed.
At any rate some these newer foriegners don't believe it and act as though it were peachy just because they didn't have to experience that. Isn't it amazing how short sighted and selfish some folks are? They assume that because something hasn't happened to them that it hasn't happened to anybody. I remember getting into a bad arguiement about a eyar ago with a couple of younger foriegners who had their head in the sand and just got off the plane at Incheon 5 minutes earlier.
Nowadays, I don't sense the same negative vibe coming off folks like I did before. All you had to do a few years ago was walk into a room and you could sense the negativity and hatred oozing off the locals. I'm not sure if it's because of a younger generation coming up through the ranks or more folks going abroad, but whatever happened something changed things around 2010 to 2011ish forward.
There seemed to be general criticism of us being here before and a "we don't need foreigners" attitude. Maybe it was the golbal economic crash that made them realize how much they need us to export to and they're eating their humble pie. Whatever it is, online hate groups like "anti - English spectrum" limp on as a shell of it's former self.
Thankfully, things have changed and Korea has become much better than before. (Minus the lower salaries of course and work conditions ppost recession.) But don't doubt for a minute there still aren't xenophobes out there. They've just had to learn to hide it and go underground as it's no longer Politically Correct as it was a few years ago. Foriegners learning Korean and translating this stuff caused an embarrasing backlash.
So, as I've said, most Koreans do seem pretty nice nowadays compared to before. It's certaintly a more livable country than before. You seem to be able to go out for dinner with a Korean girl and not have the local dart looks of hate at you both anymore. Still some overly macho butt head Korean guys around that need to be smacked every now and then, but overall, things have changed a lot and quickly. |
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BigBuds
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
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That article is pretty out of date. It was first printed over 16 years ago. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| All these stories about getting spit on/assaulted/cussed out..etc, are something that I find hard to believe |
Yet you expect us to believe your tail of dating a model who is 10 years your junior.
I think you don't believe other poster's stories because you are telling lies yourself. If you want to PM me a link to your facebook profile containing pictures of you and your model girlfriend, then I will withdraw my comment.
Until then I think someone better call 119, because coralreefer's pants are on fire. |
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coralreefer_1
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| All these stories about getting spit on/assaulted/cussed out..etc, are something that I find hard to believe |
Yet you expect us to believe your tail of dating a model who is 10 years your junior.
I think you don't believe other poster's stories because you are telling lies yourself. If you want to PM me a link to your facebook profile containing pictures of you and your model girlfriend, then I will withdraw my comment.
Until then I think someone better call 119, because coralreefer's pants are on fire. |
PM sent, but to add...its not that I dont believe other poster's stories are true..but rather than the issue is not as widespread as some would like us to believe. To illustrate that, I told my own story. Doesnt negate that such things have/have not happened to others, but as I said I find it hard to believe that there are REGULAR incidents of such things outside of the drinking/club areas. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| All these stories about getting spit on/assaulted/cussed out..etc, are something that I find hard to believe |
Yet you expect us to believe your tail of dating a model who is 10 years your junior.
I think you don't believe other poster's stories because you are telling lies yourself. If you want to PM me a link to your facebook profile containing pictures of you and your model girlfriend, then I will withdraw my comment.
Until then I think someone better call 119, because coralreefer's pants are on fire. |
PM sent, but to add...its not that I dont believe other poster's stories are true..but rather than the issue is not as widespread as some would like us to believe. To illustrate that, I told my own story. Doesnt negate that such things have/have not happened to others, but as I said I find it hard to believe that there are REGULAR incidents of such things outside of the drinking/club areas. |
Good man. I read your PM but instead of showing pictures you've just invited me to friend you on facebook, upon which I will finally be granted access to a photo of your model girlfriend.
Seems a bit suspect to me. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| All these stories about getting spit on/assaulted/cussed out..etc, are something that I find hard to believe |
Yet you expect us to believe your tail of dating a model who is 10 years your junior.
I think you don't believe other poster's stories because you are telling lies yourself. If you want to PM me a link to your facebook profile containing pictures of you and your model girlfriend, then I will withdraw my comment.
Until then I think someone better call 119, because coralreefer's pants are on fire. |
PM sent, but to add...its not that I dont believe other poster's stories are true..but rather than the issue is not as widespread as some would like us to believe. To illustrate that, I told my own story. Doesnt negate that such things have/have not happened to others, but as I said I find it hard to believe that there are REGULAR incidents of such things outside of the drinking/club areas. |
Good man. I read your PM but instead of showing pictures you've just invited me to friend you on facebook, upon which I will finally be granted access to a photo of your model girlfriend.
Seems a bit suspect to me. |
Hes offered to let you see pics as you requested, and you've refused.
You seem like a massively belligerent person. What does it take to pacify you? |
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coralreefer_1
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| All these stories about getting spit on/assaulted/cussed out..etc, are something that I find hard to believe |
Yet you expect us to believe your tail of dating a model who is 10 years your junior.
I think you don't believe other poster's stories because you are telling lies yourself. If you want to PM me a link to your facebook profile containing pictures of you and your model girlfriend, then I will withdraw my comment.
Until then I think someone better call 119, because coralreefer's pants are on fire. |
PM sent, but to add...its not that I dont believe other poster's stories are true..but rather than the issue is not as widespread as some would like us to believe. To illustrate that, I told my own story. Doesnt negate that such things have/have not happened to others, but as I said I find it hard to believe that there are REGULAR incidents of such things outside of the drinking/club areas. |
Good man. I read your PM but instead of showing pictures you've just invited me to friend you on facebook, upon which I will finally be granted access to a photo of your model girlfriend.
Seems a bit suspect to me. |
To be honest, I did not ask to friend you. you said in the quote you wanted to view a facebook profile, which I sent. I uploaded pics to a private album on my facebook to give proof of what you wanted to see. You then asked that instead of viewing the album, I email you two (which I did), but refused to view the other 37 (which in context would have shown an extended relationship and plenty of pics in different situations as well as several profession pics over the years)
Last edited by coralreefer_1 on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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