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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: Our life with the Neanderthals was no brief affair |
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LONDON (Reuters) - Far from wiping out Neanderthals overnight, modern humans rubbed along with their shorter and stockier cousins for thousands of years, giving plenty of time for the two groups to share ideas - and have sex.
The most accurate timeline yet for the demise of our closest relatives, published on Wednesday, shows Neanderthals overlapped with present-day humans in Europe for between 2,600 and 5,400 years before disappearing about 40,000 years ago.
Pinpointing how and when the Neanderthals became extinct has been tough because the mainstay process of radiocarbon dating is unreliable for samples that are more than 30,000 years old, due to contamination.
The latest six-year project by researchers at the University of Oxford used modern methods to remove contaminants and accurately date nearly 200 samples of bone, charcoal and shell from 40 important archaeological sites across Europe.
The data showed that Neanderthals vanished from Europe between 39,000 and 41,000 years ago - but rather than being replaced rapidly by modern humans, their disappearance occurred at different times across sites from the Black Sea to the Atlantic.
"Now that we are using better techniques, the picture is becoming much more clear in terms of the process by which Neanderthals disappeared from Europe," said lead researcher Tom Higham. "Our results suggest there was a mosaic of populations."
Scientists already know from DNA evidence that there was some interbreeding between the two groups, although it is not clear whether this occurred once or many times. Recent studies have suggested between 1.5 and 2.1 percent of the DNA of modern non-African human populations originates from Neanderthals.
"In a way, our close cousins, as Neanderthals are, aren't extinct," according to Higham. "They carry on in us today."
Paleoanthropologist Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London, who was not involved in the research, said the new findings were "striking" and backed up the idea that modern humans and Neanderthals may have learnt from each other.
He believes interbreeding probably first occurred in Asia soon after modern humans began to leave Africa around 60,000 years ago, so the latest evidence indicates the two populations may have been in some kind of contact for up to 20,000 years - much longer than in Europe alone.
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Cool, but it doesn't seem like anything new? Except perhaps the date on Neanderthal extinction, prior numbers were 35-25K YA.
Cro-magnons would have encountered Neanderthals first, there is a significant overlap on the timeline, and we know interbreeding took place. This was a huge chunk of time when multiple homo species was a normal thing; trade, sex, wars, must have happened. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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So, where's missing link? Where's the half-cromagnon-half-neanderthal skeleton? I mean, besides President Obama.  |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
| So, where's missing link? Where's the half-cromagnon-half-neanderthal skeleton? |
There's no missing link. Cro-magnons developed large cranial capacity (half way between homo sapiens and neanderthals) and robust facial features. Either from mating with Neanderthals or from living in the same environment they did and developing those same characteristics. |
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FriendlyDaegu
Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
| So, where's missing link? Where's the half-cromagnon-half-neanderthal skeleton? I mean, besides President Obama. |
I may be thick, but I don't get it this joke. The link is in all of us. And we would assume Obama is less neanderthal than most Americans, no? |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| FriendlyDaegu wrote: |
| And we would assume Obama is less neanderthal than most Americans, no? |
That's correct, African decent has a lower % Neanderthal. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| FriendlyDaegu wrote: |
| andrewchon wrote: |
| So, where's missing link? Where's the half-cromagnon-half-neanderthal skeleton? I mean, besides President Obama. |
I may be thick, but I don't get it this joke. The link is in all of us. And we would assume Obama is less neanderthal than most Americans, no? |
Obama's not American, but he is full-blooded CIA. While the CIA is an American-born creature, the person currently residing in the White House is most assuredly not.
I found this on a quick google search, but the evidence abounds.
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2012/07/05/barack-obama-his-mother-and-the-cia/
There's a ton of other sources pointing to this man's suspect origins. Where are his academic records, for instance? And that birth certificate was a complete forgery that anyone with a clue could see was laughable.
The guy's a plant, and the more he plays golf maybe the better off we'll be. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
Cool, but it doesn't seem like anything new? Except perhaps the date on Neanderthal extinction, prior numbers were 35-25K YA.
Cro-magnons would have encountered Neanderthals first, there is a significant overlap on the timeline, and we know interbreeding took place. This was a huge chunk of time when multiple homo species was a normal thing; trade, sex, wars, must have happened. |
It is also speculated that Neanderthals ended up in small pockets across Europe until they became extinct. Wars most likely happened between the two. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
| So, where's missing link? Where's the half-cromagnon-half-neanderthal skeleton? I mean, besides President Obama. |
Aliens gave us some of their DNA. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Died By Bear wrote: |
| Aliens gave us some of their DNA. |
Could very likely be true in a way, by which I mean stuff cooked in interstellar clouds for a billion years, and then came to earth on asteroids or dust, and became the building blocks of our DNA. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| FriendlyDaegu wrote: |
| andrewchon wrote: |
| So, where's missing link? Where's the half-cromagnon-half-neanderthal skeleton? I mean, besides President Obama. |
I may be thick, but I don't get it this joke. The link is in all of us. And we would assume Obama is less neanderthal than most Americans, no? |
I've been told to never to explain jokes but I'm exploring paths less travelled.
So, the set-up is to make the reader think of a mixed-breed of (supposedly) inferior Neanderthals and (supposedly) superior Cromagnons. However, there aren't any, are there? Nothing obvious really.
Next, the punch-line: Pick something or someone that we are not supposed to laugh about. President Obama is half-white and half-black and he's been getting thin, skeletal almost. BAM!
I learnt humour from from MAD Magazine.  |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I still don't get the joke. |
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FriendlyDaegu
Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
I've been told to never to explain jokes but I'm exploring paths less travelled.
So, the set-up is to make the reader think of a mixed-breed of (supposedly) inferior Neanderthals and (supposedly) superior Cromagnons. However, there aren't any, are there? Nothing obvious really.
Next, the punch-line: Pick something or someone that we are not supposed to laugh about. President Obama is half-white and half-black and he's been getting thin, skeletal almost. BAM!
I learnt humour from from MAD Magazine. |
I get it now. Thanks for explaining. For those who read the article, the joke would make a lot more sense if the punchline was about some famous white guy who has 'neanderthal' qualities. Somebody funny/dirty/sleazy like Sarkozy or Rob Ford. Having a black or half-black guy as the punchline doesn't make any sense in this context. |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| FriendlyDaegu wrote: |
I get it now. Thanks for explaining. For those who read the article, the joke would make a lot more sense if the punchline was about some famous white guy who has 'neanderthal' qualities. Somebody funny/dirty/sleazy like Sarkozy or Rob Ford. Having a black or half-black guy as the punchline doesn't make any sense in this context. |
Yes, so your style would be on-the-beat, and my would be off-beat. Either way works as long as the audience laughs. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| So...the evolutionists have gone from trumpeting neanderthals as the missing link- a dumb hairy ape-man-in the 1950's- to the gradual realization that neanderthals were fully human, probably more intelligent than modern humans, more robust, and probably longer lived. They had the same degree of genetic difference as is found between any different human populations today. They're the same species. There is no missing link. |
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