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Kyunghee U & Ewha Women's U Salaries?
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swashbuckler



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisPK wrote:
swashbuckler wrote:
PRagic wrote:
Sure, the ones that don't fire people after a few years and provide annual salary increases. Some of my buddies have been at the same university for over 10 years. That's a lot of annual salary increases.


Again, my question was, which SPECIFIC universities in Seoul pay "over 5 million a month" as a BASE salary for teaching 12 hours of non-tenure [b]ESL classes a week with minimal-to-no extra duties such as prep/grading/office hours/meetings/admin duties/etc with 4-5 months of paid vacation (even if you have stay there for 10 years or more)[/b]

Unless you can name some places, I will continue to assume that you and your "friends" are full of horseshit.


None of the uni ESL teaching positions pay 5 million per month unless they are tenure track positions, which normally require a PhD, but with only an MA, you can still make 5 million=--if you teach privately on the side in addition to your uni ESL job.


That's not what prmagic said. He/she said he or she has "several friends" in seoul making "over 5 million a month" with MA'S-only teaching 12 hours of esl classes a week at universities with Fridays off/4-5 months paid vacation/minimal-to-no extra responsibilities ..so I would like to know which universities are paying that type of salary under those conditions [/b]
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swashbuckler



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

liveinkorea316 wrote:
GENO most people doing alot of extra work have F2s and so are married and sorry to burst your bubble but a nice morning class schedule and a bumper holiday season in their home-based study room and total income would be closer to 10m on average man. Are you crying in your beer yet? If his wife or gf has an ordinary job somewhere they'll be pulling in 5m easy with him hardly needing to do any extra work. She can double her income by assisting his home-based hagwon. It's all the rage man. Gotta get on that train. Get 5 classes of 10 students coming through 200,000 per month. Wha-la 10million right there. before you bring in your work salary. If you think that's not being done...ita being done all over Korea. I was told by a number that they keep the uni gig for the health insurance, pension and sanity.


This might be possible IN THEORY although I would be curious to see how many foreigners have actually netted 6 to 7 million won a month (never mind 10) on a CONSISTENT basis over say 6 to 10 years just doing this besides the usual anonymous eslcafe braggers full of horseshit

Regardless it would DEFINITELY take a "special" kind of person to deal with
pushy demanding adjummas and their spoiled little brats trampling through your house all day every day
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123 wrote:
Quote:
Yawn. Fine ESL is 'busted'. But that doesn't mean that u positions are to be so blasted, especially in the macro sense. Get over it. A lot of great people made coin before, a lot of great people are making great coin now, and a lot of people will be making great coin going into the future.


What is great coin and how do they do it ? Why so vague? Ah again it always with the extensive network of ( cool ) friends.

Quote:
Not really sure what that little formula means, but a bunch of u teachers are banking well on their way to a comfortable retirement (some an early one), and most are having what would be considered once-in-a-lifetime trips annually.


How so? How much do they make ? Remember if a big school catches someone doing extra work they might fire them. If someone makes money because of extra work it is not because of the school but despite the school. As I said get caught lose your job.


The formula is this: . 3 Million minus housing 300 minus 200 no severance and 200 for no plane ticket. That comes to 2.3 M. That is not much money at all.

Comfortable retirement??

According to this? That I would like to see.

http://www.marketwatch.com/retirement/tools/retirement-planning-calculator

Please forgive me but what you said just doesn't make any sense. Of course you are welcome to try to use the calculator to try prove me wrong. Comfortable early retirement and support a family and pay back loans . On 2.5 or a little more? Even much more would be difficult. Why don't you show how that all works?


Korean Universities don't really pay what they claim to pay so why not show what they actually pay? University jobs at the big schools ought to be blasted you know why? Cause the truth is that they are not good jobs. It is hard for many to accept because there aren't many other options in South Korea. ESL in South Korea went bust.

Quote:
some people may indeed teach writing. But I thought we were comparing apples to apples; that u writing teacher would then have to be compared to a hagwon writing teacher...who doesn't get Fridays off and doesn't get two months off twice a year.



I guess you never taught at a big school. In fact now I know so. If you are at a big school you will teach writing in someway or other and you will be working late into the night almost ever night . You will have to work until you are sick .


Quote:
And, yes, nobody cares about the plane ticket.
No one cares about something with the same value of 10% of their salary ?? Anyway it was done to compare hogwon salaries to university salaries. I would say that plan ticket is equivalent in cost to one month of vacation wouldn't you?

I don't know why you get upset when someone uses the same numbers to measure a University salary that they do for a hogwon salary.

ChrisPK
Quote:
Hey dude, what's your problem? How come you never consider vacation? Uni teaching positions normally give a 2 to 5 mo paid vacation. In contrast, hagwons only allow a 10 day or 2 wk vacation. And how about the reguired teaching hrs at hagwon? It's quite often over 30 hrs per wk while at most unis it's like 15 hrs or less. Still don't get the picture? You sound like you never take a vacation!


ChrisPK

Esl in Korea is broken . There are almost no good jobs anywhere anymore. Neither hogwons or Korea University jobs are really worth anything.

Anyway I hope this answers your question:

Things have changed for the worse everywhere in Korea. Just the way it is


Generally speaking there are three types of situations if you work for a Korean university

A ) A name university where you have to work until you are sick , get pushed around and your life is miserable cause you are nothing but a servant. If you choose to work at one it is like being sick for 8 months of the year. You might get sick for real if you work for one. They don't really pay that much either.

OR

B ) A university where you get paid next to nothing. This actually is an okay option IF you don't really need money

OR

C ) Both A & B


You can avoid this IF you have a PHD and it is also true that working in Korea is better than Wall Mart but for those just getting out of college, but basically the in between between those two extremes in Korea is rapidly disappearing if it isn't already gone.

Yes you can pretty much write off teaching in Korea if you need a salary any greater that what is needed to support a single person unless one has a PHD.

“Ethics at Korean universities” Questionable. Korea university jobs especially the big famous schools are a sort of pyramid trick.


Bolded, my provincial public school, I make more than that when you add in the housing allowance, salary, renewal allowance, year end bonus, extra classes occasionally. I think the closer you get to Seoul, the more like crap your treated. I had always heard rural universities pay less, but have a light course and workload. My only downside is some partial deskwarming through the semester, though slightly lighter during vacation times. But, the closer you are to Seoul the more strict those things are too.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swashbuckler wrote:
ChrisPK wrote:
swashbuckler wrote:
PRagic wrote:
Sure, the ones that don't fire people after a few years and provide annual salary increases. Some of my buddies have been at the same university for over 10 years. That's a lot of annual salary increases.


Again, my question was, which SPECIFIC universities in Seoul pay "over 5 million a month" as a BASE salary for teaching 12 hours of non-tenure [b]ESL classes a week with minimal-to-no extra duties such as prep/grading/office hours/meetings/admin duties/etc with 4-5 months of paid vacation (even if you have stay there for 10 years or more)[/b]

Unless you can name some places, I will continue to assume that you and your "friends" are full of horseshit.


None of the uni ESL teaching positions pay 5 million per month unless they are tenure track positions, which normally require a PhD, but with only an MA, you can still make 5 million=--if you teach privately on the side in addition to your uni ESL job.


That's not what prmagic said. He/she said he or she has "several friends" in seoul making "over 5 million a month" with MA'S-only teaching 12 hours of esl classes a week at universities with Fridays off/4-5 months paid vacation/minimal-to-no extra responsibilities ..so I would like to know which universities are paying that type of salary under those conditions [/b]


Had a friend who was a lawyer in America and got on with a uni here in their law dept, He made 7 milion won a month and had minimal work conditions. He was treated quite well. Was in Seoul at first but they wouldn't give him tenure. He went out to the provinces and got tenure. It was a slack easy job for him as many of his students couldn't speak English well anyhow.

But as he said to me, if he were an English teacher he'd prob get the shaft from the uni administration. They left him alone because they wanted an American lawyer to teach Common Law courses. He worked 2 or 3 days a week and had really long vacations. Came here on account of marrying a Korean woman in the States and her bringing him over here. (She was a complete gold digger.)

Anyways, got divorced and went after a couple more years went back Statesside as he wanted a bigger challenge in his life.


So, positions do exist if you have a specialization highly in demand, you're willing to teach outside of Seoul, and you have some kind of permanent residency (F@, F6, F5, etc).
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@liveinkorea316

Yes I know people who have been fired from Universities for doing privates or extra work. Why else would I take exception to what has been said on the subject?

Big schools are extremely sanctimonious and they like to control their teachers indeed they think they own them. A residence visa doesn't change anything in regards to this.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2627056&highlight=#2627056

Anyway university jobs at least at the big schools are not cushy jobs where one has lots of time to do extra work anyway during the term. As I said above one will have to do between 3x and 7x their contract hours every week. One does not just walk in with a textbook and then go home - not even close.

Another thing is that they won't make nice schedules for teachers to do extra work rather they will spread your schedule around to make sure you are in school as much as possible. That is just the way it is . Where do you work that allows you to do that?

As for the home school business it is very competitive . A lot of people (both Korean foreigners/ and both fail at it . And it will only become worse because of Korea's low birth rate and declining population.

Moreover such a plan to work one would need to have an aparment close to their school and BOTH one's home school and one's university job would have to work out well for a long time.

Korean Universities especially the big famous schools don't operate the way you say they do. Neither does the home school business

Funny you should talk about beer . I guess you were drinking when you wrote your post.

Again another one with an extensive network of cool friends

liveinkorea316 you are another one who has never taught at a big famous school .


Last edited by GENO123 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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tob55



Joined: 29 Apr 2007

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123 wrote:
@liveinkorea316

Yes I know people who have been fired from Universities for doing privates or extra work. Why else would I take exception to what has been said on the subject?

Big schools are extremely sanctimonious and they like to control their teachers indeed they think they own them. A residence visa doesn't change anything in regards to this.

Anyway university jobs at least at the big schools are not cushy jobs where one has lots of time to do extra work anyway during the term. As I said above one will have to do between 3x and 7x their contract hours every week. One does not just walk in with a textbook and then go home not even close.

Another thing is that they won't make nice schedules for teachers to do extra work rather they will spread your schedule around to make sure you are in school as much as possible. That is just the way it is . Where do you work that allows you to do that?

As for the home school business it is very competitive . A lot of people (both Korean foreigners/ and both fail at it . And it will only become worse because of Korea's low birth rate and declining population.

Korean Universities especially the big famous schools don't operate the way you say they do. Neither does the home school business

Funny you should talk about beer . I guess you were drinking when you wrote your post.

Again another one with an extensive network of cool friends

liveinkorea316 you are another one who has never taught at a big famous school .


I have found from my own experience that when becoming a naturalized citizen comes into play the Universities are hesitant to do anything as long as the schedule of 'other' work doesn't conflict with the regular work schedule. All because 'contract' employees are considered part time workers. (I bolded the portion I am talking about.
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At a big school like EHWHA or Kyunghee? I don't think so.Those places fire teachers without cause at the drop of a hat. The only thing resembling job security is to be a girl.
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Shimokitazawa



Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The well known universities - e.g., SKY schools - are among the worst universities for a a foreign instructor to be employed as a TEFL instructor.

First, they aren't regular, permanent employees of the university. What people here don't seem to understand is that the office staff outrank contract EFL foreign instructors at universities, many of whom consider themselves our bosses. Staff and local profs are aware that they are only contract employees that can be turfed once the semester is done.

We are merely guests at these universities and that's how the staff and local professors regard us. Our status is tenuous and that's they way they want it.

They don't want you all to stay here forever.
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Shimokitazawa



Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

misher wrote:
If you have an MA Tesol in hand you can still do ok as Korea has yet to become Japan.

There probably are guys with permanent jobs, only an MA Tesol in hand and teaching 12 hours a week making 5-6 mill a month.

This is however a MASSIVE exception to the norm and as korean unis fight for students as the birth rate remains low, they will look to shave costs.


There is huge disparity in compensation and contract terms (or no contract for regularly, permanent teachers) for foreign EFL instructors at Japanese universities.

Some with master's degrees are only earning $45,000 - $50,000 a year and on non-renewable 1 - 3 year contracts while others with master's degrees are permanent teachers with rich annual research budgets and earning $120,000 a year.

There is no typical university contract at Japanese universities.

Korean universities are following Japan's lead, and they may be even worse in that they do not offer tenure or permanent teaching positions with promotional opportunities, research budgets and other benefits.
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liveinkorea316



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123

I think you haven't worked at a university. Let me fill you in some. The general consensus in this thread is that the major 10-15 universities are not good places to work. There are roughly 450 universities in South Korea. At the other 430 odd universities staff do not get pushed as hard as you imagine and the teaching requires about the same prep time as at public schools. Most uni students in Korea wanna relax and get an A. Welcome to Korea.

Staff are consulted as to what type of schedule they want. Managers, be they Korean or Foreigner who decide class apportionment, do their best to accommodate peoples desires unless that teacher is on the wrong side of management. At many universities teachers get at least one day off per week. With 12-18 hours per week at most universities, there is ample time to attend to the wife's study room or do 10 hours of privates a week without breaking a sweat to get an extra 1.5million. Any vacation work at most (non public) university is paid on top of regular wages so a bump of 3~4million twice a year adds another 500,000.

That equation adds 2million to a regular salary of 2.5-3million straight away. There is your 5million won for someone WITHOUT a private study room/hagwan at home run by the wife. A home hagwon is much more lucrative with studets paying upto 100,000 per month each to join regular classes with the wife and huaband when he gets time. 100,000 x 30 students = 3million. There are almost no set up costs just clwar out the spare room and get some old desks. Korea Sparkling.
.
The population crisis you cite is not an issue for people opening a home hagwon now. You are extrapolating too far into the future. There are lots of home hagwans because there's no regulations to stop it (it's the latest trend) and not many of them have foreigners because it would have to be that foreigners house. So Married foreigners have a distinct competitive advantage and they know it. Even if the market slowly declined as you say foreigner-owned ones will still go gang busters.
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liveinkorea316



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123

By the way, regarding home study hagwons, 100,000 is the absolute bottom price that os charged these days. Hagwon prices in Korea in general range from 150,000 ~ 300,000 per month per child. Students are usually expected to attend their hagwons Mon thru fri so that's where the extra cost comes in because its for about 20 lessons. I know three people running these home hagwons and one does not operate any weekend classes because they have their own children but another does.

During the school vacations they even put on their own special schedule like other hagwons with extra classes in the daytime and it operates like a summer study camp. $$$$$$$$$
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liveinkorea316



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GENO123 wrote:
At a big school like EHWHA or Kyunghee? I don't think so.Those places fire teachers without cause at the drop of a hat. The only thing resembling job security is to be a girl.


Please be clear about a couple of things.

1. There is no such thing (in reality) as being fired without cause. Maybe you meant 'just cause' but firings always have a reason, legitimate or not.

2. On a one year renewable contract there is no obligation to renew on the side of the university so unless a teacher was let go mid semester (highly unlikely except in the case of obvious serious misconduct) the contract can simply be not renewed.

3. This situation is not unique to foreign teachers at all. Korean lectures are on 1-2 year contracts that can be, and often are, not renewed. A similar situation exists in the USA unless you are on tenure track. Welcome to academia.
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are quite a few things wrong with your answer


I would say the number of schools that push their teachers until they are near sick is a lot higher than 10-15 . Probably around triple that . More like the top 40-50. . Most of the other schools pay 2.4 a month or less. At any rate there are lots of universities that ought to be avoided for a variety of reasons. Another thing you left out is that many schools are located in the middle of nowhere. Which makes getting extra work home school or private teaching that much more difficult.

Like I said on the thread above : privates teaching isn't entirely safe . If you get caught you can be fired. It is in every university contract. You say they don't care? See what happens if you get caught.


http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2627056&highlight=#2627056


As I said the hogwon business or home school business is pretty risky and finally privates pay less and are much harder to come by than in the past. A lot of teachers are only getting 25-30K an hour for private teaching . There are some who will do them for 20K . You can see them on the internet.



Quote:
There are lots of home hagwans because there's no regulations to stop it (it's the latest trend) and not many of them have foreigners because it would have to be that foreigners house. So Married foreigners have a distinct competitive advantage and they know it. Even if the market slowly declined as you say foreigner-owned ones will still go gang busters.


For that to work for the long term wouldn't the teacher
need for both the university job and the home school to both work out for the long term. If the teacher lost their job and had to change locations what happens with the home school?

You are still guilty of using close to ideal / best case numbers and situations. If you use more realistic numbers the situation would look a lot worse.


Quote:
Any vacation work at most (non public) university is paid on top of regular wages so a bump of 3~4million twice a year adds another 500,000.


A more accurate answer is one could get close to 4M before deducting what they pay for housing . If they did a fair amount of private teaching and they worked year round. So there you go. Even to get to 4M one would need to work at a University that is reasonably good AND have decent supply of STEADY somewhat lucrative extra work . Right or wrong?

You talk about what is possible , what I mentioned is far more likely.


Last edited by GENO123 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:10 pm; edited 12 times in total
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shimokitazawa wrote:
The well known universities - e.g., SKY schools - are among the worst universities for a a foreign instructor to be employed as a TEFL instructor.

First, they aren't regular, permanent employees of the university. What people here don't seem to understand is that the office staff outrank contract EFL foreign instructors at universities, many of whom consider themselves our bosses. Staff and local profs are aware that they are only contract employees that can be turfed once the semester is done.

We are merely guests at these universities and that's how the staff and local professors regard us. Our status is tenuous and that's they way they want it.

They don't want you all to stay here forever.


The number of schools like that that virtually torture their teachers with the amount of work isn't limited to the SKY schools. There are a lot of schools that fit that description.


Last edited by GENO123 on Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So still no one has named a university where EFL teachers are earning 5 million basic salary without doing any extra work on the side. Do we all accept now that these places don't exist?
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