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University Hiring Season
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swashbuckler



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnML wrote:
Well whilst I can't categorically say that no teacher makes 5 million non tenured (there is very likely to be at least one in Korea), it's double the rate of an average very experienced university ESL tutor. What I do feel comfortable saying is that 99/100 times someone who quotes this is likely to be talking "horse shit".

Also when comparing it to other adventures, that 12 hours is actually 25 ish hours of work (I know Smile), which is still pretty good if you like the lifestyle. I actually know tenures on this rate... but they work way more than 25 hours... I see your point though it's hard not to call BS when everything else points towards it being so. If we are going into personal stories I've had people claim they made 4 million a month who lived like peasants and would never have anything to show for it. It's blatantly obvious they are lying.

At the end of the day if they are only lying to themselves it's not a big deal, it is a big deal when people make bad judgements based off of this garbage they hear from others.


Right, as I've said before if he's only taking about doing ONLY the absolute minimum, going in 3-4 days for 12 hours and doing basic ESL conversation classes or freshman English with maybe an additional 1 hour of prep a week with a couple more at the end of the semester for grading etc for 32 weeks a year with no other outside responsibilities then he's friend is so full of it the toilets are jealous.

If you had 10 years or more of experience of maybe, MAYBE it might be possible to find something in the 4-4.5 range for that kind of schedule (still probably less than 1-100 chance though), although Koreans rarely value age or experience in ESL (see house cleanings at "top universities" every few years and I've heard Sungkyunkwon, another "top university in Seoul" won't even look at anyone over 50 when they apply)

In any event, if it was really possible 5-6million on that kind of schedule then the average long-term ESL expat in Korea would NOT (in my experience) fall into 2 general categories:

1) Weirdos/losers/lazy people who can't fit in back their home counties

2) Men married to Koreans

Regarding "bell and whistles" I'm also not sure what he keeps referring to besides MA TESOL's which are dime a dozen in Korea nowadays and CELTA/DELTA which most Korean professors have never heard of

Finally, here is a list of the "top universities" in Seoul:
#1
Seoul National University
South Korea Seoul
#105 – Best Global Universities
59.2
Global Score
#4
Sungkyunkwan University
South Korea Seoul
#231 (tied) – Best Global Universities
54.5
Global Score
#5
Yonsei University
South Korea Seoul
#260 (tied) – Best Global Universities
53.6
Global Score
#6
Korea University
South Korea Seoul
#280 (tied) – Best Global Universities
46
Global Score
#7
Hanyang University
South Korea Seoul
#432 (tied) – Best Global Universities
44.6
Global Score
#9
Ewha Womans University
South Korea Seoul
#465 (tied) – Best Global Universities
42.7
Global Score
#10
Kyung Hee University
South Korea Seoul
#515 (tied) – Best Global Universities


I will wait for someone to ACTUALLY NAME which ones pay 60-70 million a year for approximately 400-450 hours a work teaching ESL

(not on the list: Songang Konkuk and Hongik, which I know already don't pay 5 million or have yearly raises that reach that level)

If not, I will still call horse shit and discourage people from spreading dangerous and misleading information on these forums
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swashbuckler



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case you're curious no I'm not including additional payments for overtime presenting at conferences, publications, etc in that 5 million . Just teaching 12 hours a week and one or two hours of extra prep on a one-year contract with five months paid vacation..

Waiting now for PR magic and maybe one other guys canned response complaining that " no I don't have to name specific places this is a public forum you just have to take my word for it because I've been around the block blah blah...."
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Chaucer



Joined: 20 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Kyungpook Reply with quote

I think PRagic has been pretty clear that the people who make that kind of money do have a Ph.D. For such a person, the new ad from Kyungpook U would work--65 million per year, or 5 million-ish per month. The person needs a Ph.D., and needs to have published, but that's par for the Ph.D. course, no?
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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Kyungpook Reply with quote

Quote:
I think PRagic has been pretty clear that the people who make that kind of money do have a Ph.D. For such a person, the new ad from Kyungpook U would work--65 million per year, or 5 million-ish per month. The person needs a Ph.D., and needs to have published, but that's par for the Ph.D. course, no?


http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
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frankhenry



Joined: 13 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: Kyungpook Reply with quote

Chaucer wrote:
I think PRagic has been pretty clear that the people who make that kind of money do have a Ph.D. For such a person, the new ad from Kyungpook U would work--65 million per year, or 5 million-ish per month. The person needs a Ph.D., and needs to have published, but that's par for the Ph.D. course, no?


----------

THIS

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GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankhenry wrote:


There are some good and bad schools out there. Two different teachers can be having different experiences at the same school, different pay, hours work, etc. But this is the same with most all jobs. It's not limited to universities. I've noticed that the biggest whiners are usually the worst workers. They can't cut it. They are poor at doing their work. They lack the required skills to carry out the tasks. They are usually lazy slackers so they demean the job.

Then, there are the winners. We succeed. We move up the ladder. We are the ones who eventually make 65 million, 75 million, and elevate ourselves to even bigger things.

whiner Embarassed

winner Very Happy



http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3003287&highlight=#3003287
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the helpl, Chaucer, but, no, the ESL teachers I was referring to do NOT have Ph.D.s. One has a law degree, and that may contribute to the higher salary in that case, but that doesn't explain the others.

They have at least one MA in a related field (some have two), plus the CELTA/DELTA. A few are trained CELTA/DELTA instructors. Some have additional certs in peripheral topics such as pronunciation and the like. Not in the field, so don't know much more. Some present at international conferences and some even publish. All have at least 10 years of experience, and they're salaries have grown over the years.

And why the heck should one have to name university names? Other people have chimed in on these boards to back up the salaries I've described. Believe it or don't, but get over it one way or the other. I'd PM swashbuckler with the actual university name, but I'm afraid he or she would turn right around and post it up on the public boards. Sigh....

IF you DID have a Ph.D. in TESOL, and if you were on the tenure track where I work, you'd be clearing a heck of a lot more than 65 million a year after few years and a promition. But that's comparing apples to oranges.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...good thing I did get out of ESL over 15 years ago...my spelling blows lol....
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swashbuckler



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, please show evidence that other people have said it's possible to make 5million or more a month ONLY FROM teaching esl 12 hours a week with five months paid vacation/ no other outside responsibilities/ minimal grading and prep (less than 2-3 hours a week on average) as a non-tenured one-year contract instructor with only an MA
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PRagic wrote:
...good thing I did get out of ESL over 15 years ago...my spelling blows lol....


Not to mention grammar.

Laughing

Quote:
they're salaries have grown over the years.
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PRagic



Joined: 24 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rest case I my.
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tophatcat



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swashbuckler wrote:
Once again, please show evidence that other people have said it's possible to make 5million or more a month ONLY FROM teaching esl 12 hours a week with five months paid vacation/ no other outside responsibilities/ minimal grading and prep (less than 2-3 hours a week on average) as a non-tenured one-year contract instructor with only an MA


…while standing on one leg and whistling into a brass bucket.
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Fallacy



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: RE: University Hiring Season Reply with quote

Regarding the job posting for a Yonsei University position in Wonju: ignore the hearsay discussion in another thread, and PM me. I will give you the contact information for an academic professional of foreign extraction, who has verifiable experience working there in that precise job and living in that precise location. Hopefully they can answer any of your queries and satisfy any of your curiosities.
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Fallacy



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:03 am    Post subject: RE: University Hiring Season Reply with quote

Nearly three weeks have passed since the last post, so perhaps now is a good time for update. Fall is the season for hiring rather than Spring, and this off-season has been marked by the usual trickle of not more than a dozen or so full-time position offerings on Dave's for a September 1st start. Also represented have been the usual suspects, such as Changwon, Gwangju or Kyungpook at a 2.1, 2.3 & 2.4 million KRW monthly salary respectively, but not many of the better prospects, such as SNUST or Sungkyunkwan at a 3.0 and 3.9 million KRW monthly salary respectively. Woosong is always hiring: not a calendar month seems to pass without one of their ads posted. Wonkwang looks like a reasonable balance between money (KRW 2.5 million per month) and time (9 hours per week + vacations). Ulsan looks like an interesting opportunity to focus on teaching content rather than just TEFL (not to be confused with UNIST, which looks like too much work). Kaya offers an E-1 visa, but not much else. Hansung is located in Seoul for those who cannot bear living elsewhere. Going forward, there may be a few last-minute ads posted with urgent desperation in late June and early July to fill suddenly vacated positions, but those will not likely be to higher standards than the ones surveyed above. Good luck.
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Fallacy



Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: RE: University Hiring Season Reply with quote

No new university positions have been posted since June 30, but prospective applicants need not fret, for the university hiring season will begin anew just 2 months from now in the Fall.
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