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SuperfuzzBigmuff
Joined: 12 Mar 2017
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| weigook744 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Korea is an OK place to save and a good starting point for "new to TEFL" teachers.
You still get an airplane ticket in, don't have to worry about a roof over your head and get a regular pay packet.
You can still land with next to nothing in your pocket or bank account and leave after a year or 3 with $10-30k in your pocket without the need to live on instant noodles.
AS to "saving"... and Oatmeal's suggestion that savers are losers that is a somewhat misleading statement. Save for a down payment on some real estate. Whatever anyone else says and whatever the economy does in the short term dirt will always be an asset and the value will increase over time.
If you are younger, take the long view. Save a bit, spend a bit, enjoy your time abroad. Bank some money to go home with. It will make the transition home a lot easier if you have the cash to get a car, pay for insurance, apartment deposit and living expenses for a few months while you get re-settled.
If you decide you actually like the job then improve your qualifications and get off of the entry level rung of the EFL ladder. There ARE some decent jobs in Asia as well as the Middle East for those with the qualifications to move up.
I started in Korea 20 years ago. It was a good start. I traveled a bunch, saved some money, bought a house with 5 hectares of land and had no debt when I left.
I added some graduate level qualifications and I currently work in school admin in Thailand earning 130k baht/month when the average EFL teacher is earning 35-40k. 130k baht/month (US$4k) goes a LONG way in SE Asia and is a nice number even in Korea.
http://teachers.education/dave/EK384.jpg
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I think life in Korea has changed a lot in 20 years? (Minus the briefperiod around the IMF Crises?) I was here briefly during the "Golden Age"? Pre 2008 era. Not sure if the 90's or the 2000's were golden age or both. Post 2008 was a nightmare as the market was flooded. It doesn't seem so bad anymore. Less flooded. Some hakwon wages slowly rising. Slowly. But inflation has swallowed a lot of what we made 10 years ago. In my case, I did the rural EPIK thing and stuck with it with allowances and 1+. Also helps being a Canadian where the exchange is decent again. Was utter garbage for several years though kicking you hard in the savings box.
American nowadays, not sure how great it is? Wages slowly rising. But, now only one way flights. So, you need an extra 100,000 won a month right off the bat to compensate for that. During recession years offers of 2.1 to 2.3 were hard to come by. Still some of those around. But, I can see a lot of 2.3 to 2.5ish as well. Inflation ought to have have us at 3.0 million if we made 2.0 million in 2006 or 2007. But, I'm around this. So, it's alright. Savings not as great as once could have been, but not terrible. I guess as some have said, Korea is a starting point. It can be a stay long point if you have a sweet gig. Was tight during the recession years. It has lightened up a bit since then. But, it's not like the golden age.
China is good for making cash and Vietnam too if you know what to look for and how to work it. Sending money home is a pain in the @$$. But, if you have a family member you trust and can make deposits in your bank account for you, you can send some of your money home to them via western union for the least hassle. The relative picks it up and puts in your bank for you. Quite a few English teacher in Korea expats have gone onto it and have liked it. Some work and make more money. Some work less, make less, but enjoy the free time. Everyone has something they like. Vietnam I know less. But they use to be picky about a 120 hour classroom TESOL. Nt so sure now if their demand is rising. Salaries going up there, but you get your own place? Cheap apartments though? Back to China, make sure you get 20,000 rmb salary minimum if you have to get your own apartment in a tier one city. It'll prob cost you 5000 or 6000 rmb for something decent. Get some good masks from RESPO company and get some good air filter cleaning machine for your place once you get there.
Anything else anyone want to add to this? |
Define Golden Age. IMHO, that’s a bit of an overstatement. Do you mean a time when jobs were pretty easy to get and inflation and exchange rates were favourable?
Bottom line: wages aren’t going up, qualifications in EFL don’t seem to be rewarded with high salaries as seen by your average uni job, inflation is rising, and, as a result, having a useless BA and being a native speaker of English is going to get you nowhere in Korea, and, pretty much everywhere else.
People might talk up Vietnam, but the reality is, most people are on less than $2000 with no free housing and flights and there are periods of time when you’re earning very little like around TET. It’s a fun place to be, though; especially if you’re under 30. I’ve seen Academic Manager and even Director of Studies jobs for around the $2500 mark. Vietnam isn’t as cheap as you think it is.
The only people banking decent coin in Korea are either those on an F visa, who earn money through a private business like a study room, or people working their arse off in a top-level hagwon.
EFL is a ticket to poverty in the long term for most people. You’re better off not forking out for TEFL related qualifications; that money should go towards being a certified teacher if you’re serious about teaching.
There are always those who overachieve in TEFL and land a good gig, but from being in Asia for more than 10 years in several different countries, I can pretty much safely say that Korea is a good deal, especially in the public system. |
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weigook744
Joined: 12 Sep 2017
Location: Hangook
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperfuzzBigmuff wrote: |
| weigook744 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
Korea is an OK place to save and a good starting point for "new to TEFL" teachers.
You still get an airplane ticket in, don't have to worry about a roof over your head and get a regular pay packet.
You can still land with next to nothing in your pocket or bank account and leave after a year or 3 with $10-30k in your pocket without the need to live on instant noodles.
AS to "saving"... and Oatmeal's suggestion that savers are losers that is a somewhat misleading statement. Save for a down payment on some real estate. Whatever anyone else says and whatever the economy does in the short term dirt will always be an asset and the value will increase over time.
If you are younger, take the long view. Save a bit, spend a bit, enjoy your time abroad. Bank some money to go home with. It will make the transition home a lot easier if you have the cash to get a car, pay for insurance, apartment deposit and living expenses for a few months while you get re-settled.
If you decide you actually like the job then improve your qualifications and get off of the entry level rung of the EFL ladder. There ARE some decent jobs in Asia as well as the Middle East for those with the qualifications to move up.
I started in Korea 20 years ago. It was a good start. I traveled a bunch, saved some money, bought a house with 5 hectares of land and had no debt when I left.
I added some graduate level qualifications and I currently work in school admin in Thailand earning 130k baht/month when the average EFL teacher is earning 35-40k. 130k baht/month (US$4k) goes a LONG way in SE Asia and is a nice number even in Korea.
http://teachers.education/dave/EK384.jpg
. |
I think life in Korea has changed a lot in 20 years? (Minus the briefperiod around the IMF Crises?) I was here briefly during the "Golden Age"? Pre 2008 era. Not sure if the 90's or the 2000's were golden age or both. Post 2008 was a nightmare as the market was flooded. It doesn't seem so bad anymore. Less flooded. Some hakwon wages slowly rising. Slowly. But inflation has swallowed a lot of what we made 10 years ago. In my case, I did the rural EPIK thing and stuck with it with allowances and 1+. Also helps being a Canadian where the exchange is decent again. Was utter garbage for several years though kicking you hard in the savings box.
American nowadays, not sure how great it is? Wages slowly rising. But, now only one way flights. So, you need an extra 100,000 won a month right off the bat to compensate for that. During recession years offers of 2.1 to 2.3 were hard to come by. Still some of those around. But, I can see a lot of 2.3 to 2.5ish as well. Inflation ought to have have us at 3.0 million if we made 2.0 million in 2006 or 2007. But, I'm around this. So, it's alright. Savings not as great as once could have been, but not terrible. I guess as some have said, Korea is a starting point. It can be a stay long point if you have a sweet gig. Was tight during the recession years. It has lightened up a bit since then. But, it's not like the golden age.
China is good for making cash and Vietnam too if you know what to look for and how to work it. Sending money home is a pain in the @$$. But, if you have a family member you trust and can make deposits in your bank account for you, you can send some of your money home to them via western union for the least hassle. The relative picks it up and puts in your bank for you. Quite a few English teacher in Korea expats have gone onto it and have liked it. Some work and make more money. Some work less, make less, but enjoy the free time. Everyone has something they like. Vietnam I know less. But they use to be picky about a 120 hour classroom TESOL. Nt so sure now if their demand is rising. Salaries going up there, but you get your own place? Cheap apartments though? Back to China, make sure you get 20,000 rmb salary minimum if you have to get your own apartment in a tier one city. It'll prob cost you 5000 or 6000 rmb for something decent. Get some good masks from RESPO company and get some good air filter cleaning machine for your place once you get there.
Anything else anyone want to add to this? |
Define Golden Age. IMHO, that’s a bit of an overstatement. Do you mean a time when jobs were pretty easy to get and inflation and exchange rates were favourable?
Bottom line: wages aren’t going up, qualifications in EFL don’t seem to be rewarded with high salaries as seen by your average uni job, inflation is rising, and, as a result, having a useless BA and being a native speaker of English is going to get you nowhere in Korea, and, pretty much everywhere else.
People might talk up Vietnam, but the reality is, most people are on less than $2000 with no free housing and flights and there are periods of time when you’re earning very little like around TET. It’s a fun place to be, though; especially if you’re under 30. I’ve seen Academic Manager and even Director of Studies jobs for around the $2500 mark. Vietnam isn’t as cheap as you think it is.
The only people banking decent coin in Korea are either those on an F visa, who earn money through a private business like a study room, or people working their arse off in a top-level hagwon.
EFL is a ticket to poverty in the long term for most people. You’re better off not forking out for TEFL related qualifications; that money should go towards being a certified teacher if you’re serious about teaching.
There are always those who overachieve in TEFL and land a good gig, but from being in Asia for more than 10 years in several different countries, I can pretty much safely say that Korea is a good deal, especially in the public system. |
It does seem right now that the job market is better than it was during the Great Recession and it's hangover (2009 to 2014ish). It was really terrible then and is much better now by comparison. But it is nothing like the golden age. I do see a lot of 2.3 to 2.5 offers whereas for a long time it was 2.1 to 2.3 being offered, sometimes even less, and it was extremely competitive for those. Of course you must take off 100,000 won a month to pay the return flight. 2 million in 2006 is probably close to 3 million a month now with inflation? Of course I had a terrible exchange rate for several years, but is pretty good again (as a Canadian). So, that is saving my @$$ so to speak. Still I haven't had a raise in 5 years. I was happy to get up to 2.7 and sometimes 2.8. With some slight overtime and renewal allowance (excluding severance), I was closer to 3.0. Five eyars ago during the height of the recession, it was a blessing seeing a lot of hakwon jobs at the time were lowballing people with 2.0 million and were extremely competitive. EPIK cuts were just getting started. With debt sky high, it was a stressful time. I was grateful to survive and even more grateful a couple of years later to see the Canadian dollar drop so it has felt like another raise even when the local wage has stayed the same. I live decently though not rich. However, I see the writing on the wall. Hakwon wages have risen recently. (I can see 2.6 and 2.7 sometimes.) Either way if this trend continues, while less with inflation, will come to equal EPIK out here in the provinces. I do know there is money to be made in China. A lot of Korean expats who were fed up with the lack of raises during the recession got out. Vietnam, I don't know much about. Korea is still a deal for me being almost out of debt now. (I spent a lot this past year or had some expenses. Otherwise, I would have been several months back. But it's close. Student loans gone last year and final credit card debt just about gone.) |
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oatmeal
Joined: 26 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:54 am Post subject: |
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I don't want to get into too much detail about my personal finances, but I want to share some money wisdom. This also applies to anyone living anywhere in the world, not just Korea.
People often are misguided with the belief that making more money means saving more money. Not true. Most people who make more money actually spend more money and accrue bigger debts.
Wealth begins with in here (pointing to my head). You have to have set goals, you have to set boundaries (budget), you need to financially plan and make sure you stay disciplined to your budget and hit your annual target every year.
It's not really about how much money you make but about the % of your income you are able to save, invest, spend, etc. Of course other factors include where you live (cost of standard of living - rent/housing, food, taxes, currency value etc.).
One safe idea has always been the 3 bucket approach. Save 1/3, Invest 1/3, Spend 1/3. If you hold to this, you'll have a very sound and reasonable financial plan. Mine is more closer to the 2/3 save/invest and 1/3 spend, so for what little money we make as english teachers, I've actually done quite well financially.
So there's much more to just how much money you make. A huge factor is basically how you think and what kind of plan you have financially for yourself, your future goals, etc. You CAN and it is very possible to be quite wealthy on making just 30k-50k per year if you plan each year with discipline. |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| oatmeal wrote: |
I don't want to get into too much detail about my personal finances, but I want to share some money wisdom. This also applies to anyone living anywhere in the world, not just Korea.
People often are misguided with the belief that making more money means saving more money. Not true. Most people who make more money actually spend more money and accrue bigger debts.
Wealth begins with in here (pointing to my head). You have to have set goals, you have to set boundaries (budget), you need to financially plan and make sure you stay disciplined to your budget and hit your annual target every year.
It's not really about how much money you make but about the % of your income you are able to save, invest, spend, etc. Of course other factors include where you live (cost of standard of living - rent/housing, food, taxes, currency value etc.).
One safe idea has always been the 3 bucket approach. Save 1/3, Invest 1/3, Spend 1/3. If you hold to this, you'll have a very sound and reasonable financial plan. Mine is more closer to the 2/3 save/invest and 1/3 spend, so for what little money we make as english teachers, I've actually done quite well financially.
So there's much more to just how much money you make. A huge factor is basically how you think and what kind of plan you have financially for yourself, your future goals, etc. You CAN and it is very possible to be quite wealthy on making just 30k-50k per year if you plan each year with discipline. |
Many are taking home around W1.8 million, after deductions.
So?
Save 600,000
Invest 600,000
Spend 600,000
…and become quite wealthy.
Wow! |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| goat wrote: |
| oatmeal wrote: |
I don't want to get into too much detail about my personal finances, but I want to share some money wisdom. This also applies to anyone living anywhere in the world, not just Korea.
People often are misguided with the belief that making more money means saving more money. Not true. Most people who make more money actually spend more money and accrue bigger debts.
Wealth begins with in here (pointing to my head). You have to have set goals, you have to set boundaries (budget), you need to financially plan and make sure you stay disciplined to your budget and hit your annual target every year.
It's not really about how much money you make but about the % of your income you are able to save, invest, spend, etc. Of course other factors include where you live (cost of standard of living - rent/housing, food, taxes, currency value etc.).
One safe idea has always been the 3 bucket approach. Save 1/3, Invest 1/3, Spend 1/3. If you hold to this, you'll have a very sound and reasonable financial plan. Mine is more closer to the 2/3 save/invest and 1/3 spend, so for what little money we make as english teachers, I've actually done quite well financially.
So there's much more to just how much money you make. A huge factor is basically how you think and what kind of plan you have financially for yourself, your future goals, etc. You CAN and it is very possible to be quite wealthy on making just 30k-50k per year if you plan each year with discipline. |
Many are taking home around W1.8 million, after deductions.
So?
Save 600,000
Invest 600,000
Spend 600,000
…and become quite wealthy.
Wow! |
That, actually, COULD add up pretty quickly. "A penny saved is a penny earned." |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| denverdeath wrote: |
| goat wrote: |
| oatmeal wrote: |
I don't want to get into too much detail about my personal finances, but I want to share some money wisdom. This also applies to anyone living anywhere in the world, not just Korea.
People often are misguided with the belief that making more money means saving more money. Not true. Most people who make more money actually spend more money and accrue bigger debts.
Wealth begins with in here (pointing to my head). You have to have set goals, you have to set boundaries (budget), you need to financially plan and make sure you stay disciplined to your budget and hit your annual target every year.
It's not really about how much money you make but about the % of your income you are able to save, invest, spend, etc. Of course other factors include where you live (cost of standard of living - rent/housing, food, taxes, currency value etc.).
One safe idea has always been the 3 bucket approach. Save 1/3, Invest 1/3, Spend 1/3. If you hold to this, you'll have a very sound and reasonable financial plan. Mine is more closer to the 2/3 save/invest and 1/3 spend, so for what little money we make as english teachers, I've actually done quite well financially.
So there's much more to just how much money you make. A huge factor is basically how you think and what kind of plan you have financially for yourself, your future goals, etc. You CAN and it is very possible to be quite wealthy on making just 30k-50k per year if you plan each year with discipline. |
Many are taking home around W1.8 million, after deductions.
So?
Save 600,000
Invest 600,000
Spend 600,000
…and become quite wealthy.
Wow! |
That, actually, COULD add up pretty quickly. "A penny saved is a penny earned." |
It does add up. I've know some old people who have managed to save up small fortunes, over time.
It's probably difficult for young people to pay off student loans and live on 600,000 each month. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| goat wrote: |
| denverdeath wrote: |
| goat wrote: |
| oatmeal wrote: |
I don't want to get into too much detail about my personal finances, but I want to share some money wisdom. This also applies to anyone living anywhere in the world, not just Korea.
People often are misguided with the belief that making more money means saving more money. Not true. Most people who make more money actually spend more money and accrue bigger debts.
Wealth begins with in here (pointing to my head). You have to have set goals, you have to set boundaries (budget), you need to financially plan and make sure you stay disciplined to your budget and hit your annual target every year.
It's not really about how much money you make but about the % of your income you are able to save, invest, spend, etc. Of course other factors include where you live (cost of standard of living - rent/housing, food, taxes, currency value etc.).
One safe idea has always been the 3 bucket approach. Save 1/3, Invest 1/3, Spend 1/3. If you hold to this, you'll have a very sound and reasonable financial plan. Mine is more closer to the 2/3 save/invest and 1/3 spend, so for what little money we make as english teachers, I've actually done quite well financially.
So there's much more to just how much money you make. A huge factor is basically how you think and what kind of plan you have financially for yourself, your future goals, etc. You CAN and it is very possible to be quite wealthy on making just 30k-50k per year if you plan each year with discipline. |
Many are taking home around W1.8 million, after deductions.
So?
Save 600,000
Invest 600,000
Spend 600,000
…and become quite wealthy.
Wow! |
That, actually, COULD add up pretty quickly. "A penny saved is a penny earned." |
It does add up. I've know some old people who have managed to save up small fortunes, over time.
It's probably difficult for young people to pay off student loans and live on 600,000 each month. |
True. A year or two doesn't mean much. 10 years starts the ball rolling...IF you're a bit of a spendthrift. |
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