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Do Hagwans prefer experienced or in-experienced teachers?

 
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 6:39 am    Post subject: Do Hagwans prefer experienced or in-experienced teachers? Reply with quote

I've been looking for my next ESL job in Korea for a few weeks now. As it will be my third contract I've upped the ante a bit on pay and conditions. The problem is that I've had zero positive responses despite putting out the word to a lot of schools/recruiters.

This, and other factors, has led me to conclude that Hagwans prefer to hire fresh graduates with no teaching qualifications or experience. Why?

a. They're cheaper.
b. They don't make any demands.
c. They don't have any yardstick to measure with.
d. They don't complain.
e. (and the most worrying) Hagwans don't actually care about teaching quality.

I'm not saying new teachers can't do a good job. I find they usually can. Hagwan teaching isn't rocket science.

If anyone out there is working at a quality hagwan (Seoul only) and you're leaving July/august please PM me and maybe I can replace you. You never know, you might be able to get a finders fee. ( my previous school offered me 1mill to find my replacement)
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, it's easy to get a substantially higher rate of pay or other requested considerations IF the school knows you are worth it.

Going in with "yep, I'm experienced, hire me and give me lots of money" without the school knowing why you're worth more doesn't help the cause. Done incorrectly, it can make you look quite arrogant and uncooperative.

Quite frankly, look back on your last two jobs and consider why they didn't offer a lot of cash to keep you. If they decided not to try and keep you, they made the decision to spend 3 million Won up front MINIMUM to REPLACE you.

On paper, that looks pretty bad. "My last school spent three million Won to replace me rather than trying to keep me." With a history like that, would you then offer such a teacher a lot of cash?

The best way to get the big dollars is to have someone hire you who already likes you.
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain.

They did try to hire me again but I didn't like their teaching ethos. Their curriculi were based on impressing parents and nothing to do with real education.

I was offered very nice deals by both previous schools. Call me an idealist but I wanted to work somewhere where education mattered.

You know what they do here. Quantity not quality. Both my previous schools lied to the parents about what their school was all about.

I know it's probably un-realistic in Korea but I was hoping for a hagwan that would be willing to spend a bit more for experience.
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Hagwon Muppet



Joined: 18 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'3 million Won up front MINIMUM to REPLACE you'

Where does this figure come from?

Airfare? - hire in Korea. Save money.
Key money? - paying that anyway.
Recruiter? - don't use em.

Maybe I've missed something but that seems an awfully high number.

From what I've seen the majority of hagwons want a teacher as cheaply as possible and if that means firing an experienced teacher and getting someone in for 500,000 a month less they'll do it.

There are exceptions of course. Just wish I could find one thats hiring immediately.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2003 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eamo wrote:
Captain.

They did try to hire me again but I didn't like their teaching ethos. Their curriculi were based on impressing parents and nothing to do with real education.

.....

I know it's probably un-realistic in Korea but I was hoping for a hagwan that would be willing to spend a bit more for experience.


There ya go right there, eamo. You know as well as I the hakwon business. We've heard the stories a million times. I can't really give ya any advice because you've pretty much got the situation figured out. Most hakwons don't want what you're offering.

You could try some non-hakwon stuff. The other foreigner at my school might be finished in October, but I dunno his plans, otherwise, I'd tell ya to hold out for that, even if it is in Cheonan.
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eamo wrote:
Captain.

They did try to hire me again but I didn't like their teaching ethos. Their curriculi were based on impressing parents and nothing to do with real education.

I was offered very nice deals by both previous schools. Call me an idealist but I wanted to work somewhere where education mattered.


Wrong country, wrong business.
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weatherman



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say they want them green. This is because they can impress and wow them with Korea, which is very wowable to anybody new. This gives the owner the upper hand. Also newbies take longer to realize when they are being used and screwed. I also think this is one reason, the owners don't put a lot of effort into training them and making them better teachers and residents of a new country. Having the newbie in the dark is good for control, and Korean love to control you.
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Captain Obvious 2.0



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

weatherman wrote:
I would say they want them green.


A friend of mine is a recruiter, and these days nearly every school she deals with demands experience. A few months ago experience was preferred, and schools would pay extra for it. Now it's cutting off people who are green unless they have education related to teaching.

That's forcing more people who are green into working for schools that tend to be newer or smaller, and less secure in their ongoing operation.

As well, more schools are requesting recruiters only forward them information on teachers already in Korea, or teachers who will fly their own way here. This isn't the rule, but a couple years ago it was practically unheard of.
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weatherman



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Obvious 2.0 wrote:

A friend of mine is a recruiter, and these days nearly every school she deals with demands experience. A few months ago experience was preferred, and schools would pay extra for it. Now it's cutting off people who are green unless they have education related to teaching.

That's forcing more people who are green into working for schools that tend to be newer or smaller, and less secure in their ongoing operation.

As well, more schools are requesting recruiters only forward them information on teachers already in Korea, or teachers who will fly their own way here. This isn't the rule, but a couple years ago it was practically unheard of.


I stand corrected and I believe this is a good trend.
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MrTESL



Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A buddy of mine in Korea now has about 6 years exp in country. He's worked for EPIK and in a uni hakwan.

He tells me that all the uni hakwan jobs he applies for won't even look at him, and he asserts its because he has too much exp. He says they prefer greenhorns with MA's. I have no idea if this is true or not, it's just what he tells me.

He refuses to work in a hakwan, so he spends his days practicing Judo and eating hamburgers.


___________________________________
Cheap, fast TESL certification - http://members.rogers.com/tesl/
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kylehawkins2000



Joined: 08 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm finding that alot of Hogwans really do prefer inexperienced teachers because they are cheaper. Not all mind you....but a substantial number.

I have completed two contracts. I returned to Canada a year ago to get my teaching qualifications (BEd). Now I'm an experienced and qualified teacher. I also have experience as a head foreign teacher and several references who speak very highly of my teaching abilities and dedication. Most of the offers I've received are between 2.0 and 2.2 million won per month with the same old 2-3 weeks vacation and 120 hours per month. Basically after three years of working to improve my teaching credentails I am being offered about an extra $75 a week in pay. That is brutal!

When I was recruiting for my former employer he regularly passed up the opportunity to hire qualified teachers becuase they wanted 1-200 000 won more per month than unqualified/unexperienced teachers. He preferred to save the money by hiring the inexperienced teachers.....
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