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Alright alright, let's be negative about korea then.
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indiercj



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:03 pm    Post subject: Alright alright, let's be negative about korea then. Reply with quote

Here's for you narsty. Since you won't start a new thread yourself i'll do the job for you. From what i am sensing now you seem to be alittle bit tired defending youself in the "Let's be positive" one(ok i could be wrong but you are posting less aren't you?). We really don't want to lose you this way. So i hope to see what you have to say. Cool

My negative list in no particular order.

1. Cruelty toward the weak unmanliness toward the strong
This might be a tradition handed over deep in our blood because we were always a small country surounded by powerful ones. Many seem to have survived troubled times taking this 'wisdom' to heart. Nevertheless what is wrong is wrong. I think korean people are very immature putting themselves in others shoes. There are a lot of public campaigns and efforts from the government like legal efforts to abolish any discriminations of foreign workers, the diabled, women and they are spending more on welfare. But still a lot of abuses and discriminations are done so 'naturally' and 'directly'(unlike in other western counties) that the scars they leave seems so deep.

2. Money Money Money
Yeah they love it too much. But i think chinese would easily blow them away in this category.

3. Mix up of private and public in people
Some people takes thing too personally. I can't get a decent conversation without arguing. Koreans are too emotional(somewhat like Italians).

4. Home considered as a mere investment
They move move and move. To many people home is not 'home' but some stock to buy at low and sell at high. It was a successful way of making big money for so long that more people are jumping on the bandwagon. One government after another reluctant to tax fairly real estate purchases all these years made this 'mobile' society.

5. Lack of logic
Well, some. not all.

6. Spitting on streets
one of the most disgusting things to many foreigners, to many koreans as well.

7. Pong Zak and banal ballad songs
I regret the fact that i was born to understand korean whenever those terrible lyrics do the ambush out of nowhere.

8. Misuse of colors
No! you just can't put this with that!

9. Prostitution and androcentrism of fragile minds
Korean women are strong. They simply deserve better than this.

10. The inability to bring justice in many political crimes of the past
There weren't many koreans comdemned for treachery with colonial japanese, for killing, illigally imprisoning and torturing it's own people during nearly 4 decades of dictatorship that followed 'liberation'. Those who are responsible still have a large share of political and economic power. People have been fighting hard against the govenment(Korean and US alike). Some say it is too late and that time will cure, so let them die away. But is it really? I just wish thise history don't repeat itself in Iraq.


Last edited by indiercj on Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that really truly bugs me is that it seems hard to find deviation from the norm; there's a lack of individualism for many people. A lot of the other problems I have stem from this one, and this is the only stifling one to me.
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The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Korea and am not really prone to Korea-bash. But I'll add one.

The Korean media. Rather than being a positive educating force, it seems bent on reenforcing local ignorance and prejudice. It's astounding to me that Koreans know so little about the world, particularly the near-by world: Taiwan, Japan, China... And MBC does little to tell them about the world in which they live. Furthermore, foreign residents of Korea who appear on local newscasts are either US military, or have jackets over their heads at the police station. And whenever I see Westerners on Korean entertainment shows, I brace myself - the chances are good they're going to make cartoonic asses of themselves.

To those who will jump in to argue that Western news isn't any better, I'll ask, which network is more likely to tell you about something happening in Africa or Sri Lanka - the CBC and/or BBC World, or KBS and MBC? The foreign news segments of the local newscasts here are a joke. Their idea of foreign news is anything that has to do with Korea's relations with the outside world. Other peoples' relations with each other are ignored unless the story can be tangentially spun into a Korea story.

Koreans themselves have a metaphor for the country - it's a well, and the Koreans are frogs living in the bottom. All they see of the outside world is that little patch of sky peeking in through the top of the well. The result? A population that actually believes their country is the only one with four seasons, believes the rest of the world is in awe of "the world's most scientific language", and considers it natural that all of Korea's bordering seas be renamed to reflect Korea's place as the center of the universe - the East, South and West Seas.

MBC et al could shine some light into the well. But they won't. I'm curious to know if they themselves know more about the world, and are keeping the frogs dumb, or if they're frogs themselves, exposing their ignorance through their work.
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Rand Al Thor



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Locked in an epic struggle

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creativity is stymied by the blind need to conform

Korea is not the only country with four seasons

The inability of Koreans to accept that I have the ability to communicate in thier language with more facility than they can in mine.

cars & motorcycles on the sidewalk (it's a sidewalk not a sidedrive)

Korean's inability to accept criticism of Korea in anyform, but thier equal love to critize my country and other non-korean countries

every person with Korean blood in them is Korean even if they can't speak Korean and are 3rd or 4th generation Canadian/American/Australian/ or whatever

total disregard for safety or regulations/laws of any kind.

I could go on but will stop for now....
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matko



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to add one thing. I always disliked the "Korea is a victim" attitude. Everything bad that happens to Korea or Koreans is blamed on someone else.


side note: many Japanese also believe that Japan is the only country with four seasons Rolling Eyes
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Dan



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Sunny Glendale, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to think of korea has a socially under developed country, and that it is progressing. in another 20 years, these points will largely be irrelevant. and even now opinions are charging at a fast pace. perhaps it is difficult for people to see, but i feel there is a definite undercurrent of change coming about, even as many young people are opposed to the US, it is not unlike the 60s in the US when young people were rebelling against the government.

anyway, give it 20 years.
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jaderedux



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:33 am    Post subject: can I get witness amen Reply with quote

I like this country very much but somedays it pains me and I see alot of things I don't like and don't want to see.

Quote:
The Korean media.


Amen brother! (and amen to the analysis behind it)

I am appalled at the tunnel vision of the Media.

1. Bizarre "science"...fans will kill you! ( since I have been here I have seen at least 4 stories in "reputable" newspapers about this phenom. ) Also, you will go blind if you wear your sunglasses in the winter. (they are for summer)

3. Koreans invented the printing press.

4. Koreans were the first people to use silverware ie: a spoon.

5. Korea is the only country with 4 seasons.

6. The complete and total lack of respect for women as equals. The women teachers(married) at my school are frequently exhausted. While western men aren't perfect ....Men here seem to do NO housework much less EVER help with children. They come home late leave early and aren't much of a role model as far as I can see.

7. The acceptence of drinking and getting drunk.

8. The belief that if you are not Korean you are somehow tainted. Koreans should only marry and procreate with other Koreans.

9. There is little hope for orphans here to be adopted. Most are adopted by Brits and Americans. Why...cuz they are either girls or since they aren't your blood they don't matter.

Quote:
Mix up of private and public in people
Some people takes thing too personally. I can't get a decent conversation without arguing. Koreans are too emotional(somewhat like Italians).


I must agree with this one in a big way. I don't understand this seeming lack of delination between work and social. I have worked quite pleasantly with people I despise. I am polite and do what it takes at work. But outside of work I would avoid them in a social situation. Here everything is all blurred. If you disagree with some work related issue then you are now an enemy. This one is one I cannot seem to get my mind around. WORK IS WORK TO ME. WHEN I LEAVE WORK I LEAVE IT THERE.

I don't like the fact that age is so damn important. I have worked for bosses younger than me and older than me. I treated all of them with respect. People here will kowtow to a senior even when they are wrong or doing something illegal. Not many whistle blowers because of this IMHO. Merit is not always important. Age, who you know is often more important.

Example: When Hiddink got here HE WAS HATED. He insisted all the players eat and train together. NO ONE got special treatment. Everyone practiced together. Senior players ate with junior players. No one was guaranteed a spot on the team. Didn't matter who your Daddy was or what school you graduated from....It raised not only eyebrows but also ire....When they started to win then Hiddink was hero.

The herd mentality. If you are different you are WRONG. Period. No questions asked. It kills me sometimes I see some flamboyant creative behavior by a student and watch it being systematically squashed by friends and even korean teachers.

The fact that for all their talk about health and what is good for you ...My students have gray hair, can barely keep their eyes open because they go to academy until 12 or 1 in the evening. I see signs of exhaustion and stress everyday. They learn nothing except how to PASS the test. Once it is over the knowledge disappears to make room for the next test. GRRRR.

Form over substance. If you look good ... you must be good.

I like this country but just like my own it has problems. (shrug) Going on my third year..so I see more of them. But I have also seen more good to...experience is sometimes a double edged sword.

Jade
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indiercj



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On media.
It is true the korean media needs more work in credibility compartment. But i thought MBC was the most credible of the whole bunch. SBS is the real joke. Every news they make is one dissapoinment after another with no proof or fact(maybe like Fox news in the state), I know a journalist working for YTN, she said it is no secret that among many journalists those in SBS are not even considered as like.
It is one big problem that korea has been sufferring. The lack of indepth analysis based upon a certain amount of firm facts means people have no decent source of reference in discussing topics(not everyone can research everything to discuss anything). i would like to suggest that the media stop hiring people with just a korean BA, these people just can't report.
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Rand Al Thor



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Locked in an epic struggle

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: can I get witness amen Reply with quote

jaderedux wrote:

3. Koreans invented the printing press.


Actually that is something that they did do... but not like it matters as it never left their country. Gutenberg is the "true" inventer. In this case dissemination of technology is what counts.
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The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But i thought MBC was the most credible of the whole bunch.

Yes, SBS may well be worse. My loathing of MBC comes after a winter of watching their perversely one-sided coverage of USFK/SOFA issues on the nightly news. Every night they had a different "why the USFK is evil" spot, always somehow giving them the excuse to once again recount the Korean version of the two-girls story and show those bloody pictures again. It was pure propaganda and nationalist hate-mongering (kind of like the video companion to Hankoryeh).

Once the word came down from Noh Moo Hyun to knock it off, it all stopped very suddenly. I'm not even American and I found it nauseating.

To say that episode left a sour taste in my mouth is an understatement. There were stores in Yongsan that had signs up: "No USFK until SOFA is revised". Again, I'm not American and therefore obviously not USFK, and though the signs came down I still won't shop at those stores. They were pandering to a mob.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: can I get witness amen Reply with quote

Rand Al Thor wrote:
jaderedux wrote:

3. Koreans invented the printing press.


Actually that is something that they did do... but not like it matters as it never left their country. Gutenberg is the "true" inventer. In this case dissemination of technology is what counts.


Ummm well China had it before anyone in Europe did so obviously the printing press invention migrated to one other country. China was actually as technology advanced (if not a little more so) than Europeans were when they first went to China. Unfortunately for China, Europe was on the upswing while China was sliding down. Japan didn't come across the printing press until the Europeans arrived so Korea didn't export it very far.

Anyway, good list indiercj. One thing that bugs me is running into all the really drunk guys in public. No matter what day of the week, I'm bound to come across a drunk guy if I'm out at night.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
8. Misuse of colors
No! you just can't put this with that!


Colour mis-management I can live with- it's the folks who wear plaid, stripes, and paisly together who must not be allowed to procreate under any circumstances.
[The fashions may be wierd to my North American eye, but I found Koreans on the whole to be more attentive to their appearance and in general better dressed than North Americans.]
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the Korean media,

Is it just me or was the Daegu Subway tragedy under reported? It seemed that two weeks after the tragedy we heard nothing more about the investigation. Or at least it was barried.

Perhaps someone who follows the Korean language media more closely can comment on this further.
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rudyflyer



Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Location: pacing the cage

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alias wrote:
Regarding the Korean media,

Is it just me or was the Daegu Subway tragedy under reported? It seemed that two weeks after the tragedy we heard nothing more about the investigation. Or at least it was barried.

Perhaps someone who follows the Korean language media more closely can comment on this further.


yeah 200 people killed primarily by gross negilgence by the Daegu Subway Corp and it dies (pardon the pun) yet 2 kids get accidently run over and it was being played up 8 months later
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narsty dog



Joined: 29 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just be grateful england didnt colonise korea................

INDIERCJ: see above post by rudyflyer for why living in korea is a pain in the a66773e , and not worth it if you are white / other colour not resembling korean . And you expect foreingers to like your unfriendly little islet????
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