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How common is discrimination?

 
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 5:37 am    Post subject: How common is discrimination? Reply with quote

Maybe not an easy question to answer and no doubt a topic that has been covered before. But just today I got the feeling it is very common in Korea to discriminate against teachers based on race and other things. It makes me want to get out of here but right now I do need the job. First I met a Korean-American-Japanese! recruiter guy who expressed his displeasure over schools that hire only Americans/Canadians and only whites, as he said he knew many good candidates outside this narrow field. Then later I called a woman about a job and right away on the telephone she asked me if I was white. I didn't even go meet her. Although I do understand that it is a business and that the parents may not want to send their kids to black or non-white teachers, despite ability or fluency. It's a sad world..........................
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Blue Flower



Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Location: The realisation that I only have to endure two more weeks in this filthy, perverted, nasty place!

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is sad, and totally unfair. Such racial biases are both illogical, and hypocritical. I have seen quite a few darker skinned Koreans wandering around. Granted none of them are actually "black", but they are still people of "colour". No one is truly "white", just as no one is really "black".

Its about time that those Koreans (should i use a "C") who blatently embrace racist ideologies by discriminating against potential teachers - who they badly need - just because of thier skin colour. Just because you're white doesn't mean your good. There must be heaps of white teachers out there who are useless. But because they are white, they are considered to be better than another teacher, who happens to be coloured. Racism like this makes me ashamed to be white.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't feel that a person from New Zealand should be commenting on how racism is bad in other countries.

Or does the citizen of New Zealand choose to forget things like how the "New Zealand First" party jumped from 6% in the polls three months ago to 28% last month by virtue of their intention to decimate immigration of non-white's into New Zealand?
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Blue Flower



Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Location: The realisation that I only have to endure two more weeks in this filthy, perverted, nasty place!

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I never said New Zealand was a utopic delight, free from all forms of discrimination, including racism. I am aware of how racist some NZ'rs can be. I actually come from Mount Maunganui which is part of Winston Peters ministry. He is an idiot, and a hypocrit. Educated people understand this. I myself can't understand how Winston got any votes at all, but he did. Anyway, this isn't about NZ politics, or anti-immigration, but how black teachers are discriminated against in Korea. NZ may not be perfect, but at least teachers are hired based on their skills, rather than the colour of thier skin, and thier physical apperance. Have you heard of the lofty grants offered to teachers of Maori or Pacific Island descent? That doesn't sound racist to me.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Blue Flower,

I thought your comments were intelliegent and insightful. Never mind that negative reply..

I am bothered by this racist nonsense. But I sort of understand it to be a kind of inherent thing in a country like Korea, long isolated from the rest of the world, very homogenous. Insularity, I guess, is a good word to describe the place. Just the way the locals gawk at anybody foreign still amazes me after several years. Damn people get on a boat or airplane and see the world! Lots of diversity.
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Blue Flower



Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Location: The realisation that I only have to endure two more weeks in this filthy, perverted, nasty place!

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you - I guess being "insular" is how Koreans have managed to hold onto thier culture, and language during years of occupation, etc. But enough is enough. They need to start moving forward fully, which means learning that colour is only skin deep. It is the heart and soul of a man/woman that counts.
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again Blue Flower good response.

Yeah I am really tired of meeting people who are so naive as to believe skin color or nationality determines who another person is. It almost makes makes me want to shoot myself, or the other ignoramus! I've encountered so much racism in this country it's not funny. And usually it is is innocent, almost like a child asking if the sky is blue in America, as well. But damn these people with their recent-found prosperity need to meet the world more. Go to Toronto, New York or London perhaps. Will you even ever hear the the word "foreigner" there? Doesn't make much sense in those cities. But in Seoul, with its 11 000 000 or so people you hear it (waygukin) daily. And I can understand enough Korean to know the comments about foreigners are usually not so nice....anyway what a strange country and strange world.

Ok enough rant for now.
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crazylemongirl



Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord wrote:
I don't feel that a person from New Zealand should be commenting on how racism is bad in other countries.

Or does the citizen of New Zealand choose to forget things like how the "New Zealand First" party jumped from 6% in the polls three months ago to 28% last month by virtue of their intention to decimate immigration of non-white's into New Zealand?



Umm gord I suggest that in future before you get on your moral high horse you actually get your facts straight... the following urls outline the political polls in New Zealand. The other major polls in New Zealand first are usually within a few percentage points of this one. Far from a massive surge of support, New zealand First has been trailing in single figures during that time.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,168778-1-8,00.html

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,177482-1-8,00.html

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,177482-1-8,00.html

I could give a more detailed anaylsis on the whole thing but suffice to say the popularlity on New zealand first has as much to do with the unpopularity of the main conservative party in New zealand but I get the feeling I'm the only one who would be interested in this.

As for your superiorty complex compared to the other 'old commonwealth' countries + the states I would put New Zealand right up there with canada in terms of fighting racism. In australia, is in complete denial (the government can't even apologise for past wrongs) the US first nations people seem to be left out of the political process altogther while blacks and hispanics are severly marginalised. Britan, has race riots and the 'troubles' in northern ireland..

I'm impressed with what's been done in Canada in terms of the parallel development work there, and talking to many Maori, that seems to be where they would like New Zealand to head.

Over the past 15 years New Zealand has put in place many efforts to redress past wrongs committed by the colonial government through the treaty of waitangi tribunal. There have been offical apologies made to the chinese and communities over past treatment. While numerous affirtmative action programmes that are designed to empower communities have been put in place. Our parliament is one of the most diverse in the world (how many countries have both a rastifarian and transexual MP in the one house? The answer one, New Zealand).

Sorry for going off topic... but here's my rant on korea.

As for korea it does make me sad to so much overt racism here.. I think it has a lot to do with a very closed nation that is only just opening itself up to the world... I remember explaining this to a coworker who thought it was highly ammusing that one of the kiwis at my work had a maori grandad that this idea of racial purity is a very bizzare concept in many parts of the world, particulary in nations built on large waves of recent immigration.

CLG
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jajdude



Joined: 18 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post crazylemongirl,

Yes indeed Korea is a weird country and most Koreans do not know how weird it is... only the few who have spent time abroad realize it. I have met many of all kinds here and those who have been abroad always say what a diverse place the world can be, various peoples and food. WOW... yes indeed, the world is not limited to kimchi and Koreans only. Just try saying that to the locals who have never been outside Korea. They'll look at you like you are insane.
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Blue Flower



Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Location: The realisation that I only have to endure two more weeks in this filthy, perverted, nasty place!

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my "conversation" classes yesterday (I use that term loosely) I was asking them if they had ever left the country, and where they were born. I would say over half of the students were born in Anyang (which is where I am teaching) and still live here. Out of about 45 students, only 5 of them have travelled overseas, and only 1 student has been to a western country (apparently he is rich - according to the other students), he has been to america, england, and australia. The rest have been to either Japan, or China. This amazed me, considering that Korea is pretty close to other countries. In NZ, which is very far from any other country, other than Australia, there will be heaps more kids that have travelled overseas, and not just to aussie either. They really do just stay here, repeating the cycle of ignorance, as they just don't know, and haven't experienced anything different.
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Len8



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 3:12 pm    Post subject: How common is discrimination? Reply with quote

There have been many editorials in the Korean English papers about Korean racism, and some of them haven't been very complimentary. There have been the articles about how they treat their foreign workers and how they abuse them and deprive them of their basic human rights. There have also been articles about their arrogance to-wards other foreigners who might have other buisness in their country. Most koreans I have found to be very gracious and kind, but unfortunatly the ones I reamember the most happen to be the ones I have had a run in with over prejudice and or discrimination.

Now why they can be so hard, and at the same time curteous and kind is a dichotomy in their make up that is quite unfathomable. Someone once said to me that as Asians they know that they will always recieve some slant or snide comment from someone. In other words they are not part of the general white anglo saxon hegemony, so they will always be considered outsiders, and a little lower class. I know this sounds a little cruel, but unfortunatly the majority of the rest of the world think this. Now their (korean ) atitude to-ward foreigners or those they consider lower down on the totem pole is partly a reflection of their hidden bitterness at this status quo that's been forced on them.
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Korea Newfie



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Newfoundland and Labrador

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Flower wrote:
Out of about 45 students, only 5 of them have travelled overseas, and only 1 student has been to a western country.


I'll go you one better: My old director has never (or hadn't at that point) been any farther away than Seoul. I live in INCHEON Shocked . My current director has been to Jeju Island (once, with his family), and goes to Seoul from time to time, but tries to keep time in places where foreigners might be to a minimum. He's never seen Itaewon in person.

That really surprises me, because he frequently asks me questions about my culture, and I even spent 30 minutes breaking down the Canadian parliamentary structure for him last week. It seems to me that such people would like to take advantage of a place like Itaewon to expose his children to different races, if only by dragging them by the hand from one end to the other. But, alas, he prefers to see the world through my inexperienced eyes. Too bad.

That said, I have to say that it really doesn't surprise me that people here don't travel abroad much. I mean, we do because we learn about the world, and want to see it. However, if you were led to believe that your own country was closest to perfection, would you want to leave?
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