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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
Too bad - think of how much healthier that generation would be now if it'd had the benefit of better nutrition and increased immune systems that breast milk promotes. And the social and political environment of tyhe time - specifically feminism - shares some blame for it:
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Formula, being ��scientifically�� formulated, was touted as superior to ��old-fashioned�� breastfeeding. It was hailed as a boon of modernity, freeing women from being so tied to their babies. My mother had me in the 1970s, when breastfeeding in America hit its all-time lowest rates. The feminist movement had told women to get out of their homes and get real jobs, and they listened in droves. Formula made that vastly easier, because mom could be gone for hours or even days at a time, without worrying about feeding the baby. My mother��s feminism told her that breastfeeding was not only unnecessary, but to be avoided, because a nursing mom must actually stay with her children.
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I can sympathise with this. It's easy now to say it was bad, but there wasn't much information at the time for women to know they were doing a disservice to their babies. Especially when many doctors were in fact recommending formula! Nowadays you can express your milk using a pump, so I can work full time and keep my baby supplied with breast milk. I can also pump surplus milk when I'm at home so that we always have a store in the freezer, which my husband can use if I'm not about.
Occasionally we use formula, when we take baby out. It doesn't need refridgeration and it can travel well. We simply add bottled water as required. At these times, formula is a god-send. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| peppergirl wrote: |
My Korean SIL is going back to work in a few weeks, and is still breastfeeding. She's a public officer and instead of two 30 min pumping breaks, she can come to work 1 hr later or leave work 1 hr early every day.
It seems the tide is changing in Korea regarding breastfeeding/formula though. The big women's hospital I am visiting here even has a lactation specialist, and my SIL is not the only young Korean mother I know who's breastfeeding. |
Korean hospitals still have a long way to go. It is now recognised that the baby's instinct for latching on is strongest in the first hour of life. Therefore, experts say that it's very important to breastfeed within an hour of giving birth. My sister gave birth in Australia, and immediately the baby was placed on her chest and the medical staff assisted her in breastfeeding her boy right away.
Here in Korea, despite my protests, the nurses snatched my boy and ran off with him. They kept saying "Baby cold, baby cold" when I tried to hold on to him. I was told the baby had to be kept under observation for 4 hours (standard procedure at the hospital) so after 4 hours I tried to feed him - but the nurse (a junior who probably didn't know what the hell she was talking about) wouldn't allow it. She said he needed more observation. I wasn't able to breastfeed him until 13 hours later. It was a disaster. We had so much trouble due to this disruption. Also, I requested that my boy not be bottle fed, only cup fed. I think some nurses disobeyed this, because he wouldn't cup feed when we took him home. We struggled to breastfeed at first and so we were forced to bottlefeed him expressed milk (luckily my friend lent me a pump). He took to the bottle right away, which suggested he'd already had some practice.  It's a surprise we eventually did become successful at breatfeeding. It was really hell at the beginning and I nearly gave up. It's not as easy and automatic as you would believe, latching on needs practicing by both mother and baby. Fortunately, I'd read enough books to know that it was worth perservering and that almost any woman could do it. So we got there in the end - after a lot of tears (from baby and even more from me  ). Now of course, it is second nature.
I have great sympathy for the poor mums who don't make it. Most women give up in despair after 2 days. Some babies have a weaker latching on instinct than others, and women have to learn to present their nipples to baby in the right way. There is not enough support. I remember reading an article in The Guardian about it. The British government is trying to encourage women to breastfeed, but at the same time money for lactation specialists and breastfeeding counselors is being slashed! Most women do want to breastfeed their baby, but it's so difficult they usually give up. Even misinformed doctors often tell a woman to give up. Especially here in Korea. My Korean friend wanted to breastfeed, but she had trouble the first few days (as most women do) and the nurses and the doctor told her she wasn't able to breastfeed, and should use formula. So she gave up. This is common. An American friend was also told by her doctor (in the US) to give up. Luckily, she didn't take any notice, and spoke to her friend who was a lactation specialist who gave her the right advice and help, and she continued.
There is a desperate need more more information, support, and properly trained staff. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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La Leche League is an international, nonprofit, nonsectarian organization dedicated to providing education, information, support, and encouragement to women who want to breastfeed. All breastfeeding mothers and pregnant women interested in breastfeeding are welcome to come to our meetings or call our Leaders for breastfeeding help.
http://www.lalecheleague.org/
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/leader.html
[R.S.R. Note: In Asia, they have chapters in China, Japan, Singapore, but not in Korea yet. Maybe some breast-feeding activists in Korea could start one. Maybe it would be good publicity for calling attention to the importance of breast-feeding by having a Nurse-In. Or a march of nursing mothers on Parliament.  ]
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A Brief History of La Leche League International
1956 - Breastfeeding rates in the US drop close to 20%; October 17, first meeting held at home of Mary White 1957-LLL brings Dr. Grantly-Dick Read, childbirth expert, to speak to a packed house at the local high school
1958 - Founders clarify their purpose and incorporate as LLL of Franklin Park; publish the first edition of THE WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING in loose-leaf format and the first edition of the bimonthly publication for members, then called LLL NEWS
1960 - Over 50 women coming to 'Board' meetings bi-monthly, first LLL Group outside of country founded in Jonquiere, Quebec
1962 - LLL establishes 'Chapters' with 5 Groups per Chapter.
1963 - LLL publishes first bound book edition of THE WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING and first translation into French. Reader's Digest publishes the article: "They teach the art of breastfeeding" by Karen Pryor.
l964 - Official name change from La Leche League to La Leche League International, Inc. with Groups in Canada, Mexico and New Zealand; LLLI's first International Conference takes place in Chicago with 425 adults and 100 babies in attendance.
1965 - The first issue of Leaven is published to keep LLL Leaders up-to-date on breastfeeding and organizational issues.
1971 - LLLI receives widespread publicity when Princess Grace of Monaco speaks at the 4th International Conference held in Chicago, Illinois, USA.
1972 - Breastfeeding rates finally start to climb, jumping 4%, continuing an average climb of 3% a year throughout decade.
1974 - LLLI is accredited to provide continuing medical education credits by The American Medical Association.
1979 - LLLI represented at joint WHO/UNICEF Meeting on Infant and Young Child Feeding in October in Geneva, Switzerland.
1981 - LLLI is welcomed into consultative status with the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF); establishes affiliate status as part of its organizational structure; LLL Switzerland became LLLI's first Affiliate country; A revised and expanded edition of THE WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING is published; LLLI holds its 25th Anniversary Conference with a record attendance of 3800 adults and 2300 children; LLLI publishes the first edition of BREASTFEEDING ABSTRACTS, a quarterly publication for health professionals.
1982 - LLL Leader works with UNICEF/Brazil to develop a pilot project to train low-income mothers to be breastfeeding counselors and to form mother-to-mother support groups. Breastfeeding rates reach 61.9 %.
1984 - LLLI publishes OF CRADLES AND CAREERS by Kaye Lowman.
1985 - The title and format of LLL NEWS changes to NEW BEGINNINGS; LLLI serves on The International Board of Lactation Consultant Examiners, established to develop and administer a voluntary certification program for lactation consultants; first IBLCE exam, July 1985.
1986 - LLLI publishes 6 books, including a new edition of THE WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING, in 3 years.
1987 - LLLI launches the Peer Counselor Program.
1988 - LLLI is awarded a 4 year Child Survival Grant for projects in Guatemala and Honduras to train low-income women as breastfeeding counselors and to form mother-to-mother breastfeeding support groups; LLLI publishes the first quarterly edition of ALUMNAE NEWS to reach members of the newly formed Alumnae Association.
1989 - LLLI initiates an 800-line to enable mothers to reach LLL Groups and receive the breastfeeding information they need; LLLI establishes the Center for Breastfeeding Information (CBI), the world's largest resource for scientific research on breastfeeding.
1990 - Breastfeeding rates drop to 50%; The WHO/UNICEF Policymaker's Meeting produces the "Innocenti Declaration on the Protection, Promotion and Support of breastfeeding," which is signed by 10 UN Agencies and 32 countries, including the US.
1991 - The Baby-Friendly Hospital Initiative (BFHI) is launched by WHO/UNICEF in June in Ankara, Turkey; LLLI joins with other organizations and individuals to form the World Alliance for Breastfeeding Action (WABA) a global network to protect, support and promote breastfeeding LLLI publishes THE BREASTFEEDING ANSWER BOOK and a revised edition of The WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING.
1992 - WABA sponsors first World Breastfeeding Week, August 1-7 with the theme: Baby-Friendly Hospital. LLLI sponsors its first World Walk for Breastfeeding.
1993 - LLLI is admitted into official relations by the Executive Board of the WHO's ninety-first session in January (resolution EB9l.R20).
1994 - LLLI moves its office from Franklin Park to Schaumburg, Illinois, USA.
1995 - LLLI establishes a presence on the Internet with its own Web site and as a participant in "Parent Soup on America Online." Breastfeeding rates rise again approaching 60%.
1996 - WABA sponsors the fifth World Breastfeeding Week, August 1-7, theme: Breastfeeding: A Community Responsibility; LLLI publishes a revised and expanded edition of THE BREASTFEEDING ANSWER BOOK.
1997 - LLLI holds the 25th annual Physicians Seminar and the 40th Anniversary International Conference in July 1997 in Washington, DC USA; Celebrates the 10th anniversary of the Peer Counselor Program.
1998 - Education Center officially established at LLLI, Schaumburg, IL, USA, for the implementation of courses related to breastfeeding and lactation management.
1999 - LLLI representative travels to Moscow, Russia, to provide technical assistance and support to newly established mother-to-mother support group. Russian obstetricians tour LLLI offices, Schaumburg, IL, USA.
2000 - LLLI's Center for Breastfeeding information goes online.
2001 - Wellstart International donates their library to LLLI increasing the number of professional journal articles, research studies and books available from our Center for Breastfeeding Information from 19,000 to 38,000.
2002 - Revised edition of THE BREASTFEEDING ANSWER BOOK, available in CD format for the
first time
LLLI PR July 2003 |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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big_bird... exactly the same thing happened to me! My husband, not knowing better, listened to the doctor and they took Letty from me to clean etc.. I wanted to feed! But I was told that she might have had amniotic fluids inside and that had to come out first.. bah... so I waited until midnight when I wanted to feed her but she was fast asleep.. so I didn't want to wake her up and waited until the morning - she didn't want to eat then or may be she had lost her feeding instinct. Anyway... the nurses were concerned that she was hungry and gave her some what they called *sugar* water.. not sure what it was. Letty had some of that and was happy. I persevered with breastfeeding and tried and tried. They wanted to give her a bottle, I refused flatout. Luckily because Letty only had the water in a bottle that she didn't have a lot of problem feeding from the breast. Neither Letty nor I knew what we were doing but we managed it in the end. And I have to say Lansinoh is GODSEND! I am proud to say that Letty has not had a single ounce of formula and only was bottle fed expressed milk twice because I had to go somewhere and couldn't really take her. I now take her everywhere with me and I feed her whenever and wherever.
RSR - they have a few La Leche members in Korea.. not so much a chapter but I think they are consultants. Well, at the beginning, my husband called them up for some advice because my nipples were cracked and sore and I was miserable and Letty seemed unhappy.. and we really didn't know what to do but I was very adament that she shouldn't have formula. Well... a fat lot of use they were!!!! My husband asked this person what I could do for my cracked nipples and he said to use a bloody nipple shield!!!!!!! In England, they are totally against using the nipple shields except in really exceptional circumstances. They had no idea that there are internet shops that sell lansinoh (which, incidentally, is a La Leche approved product for breastfeeding mothers). I was so upset with the way they responded. My husband got really mad because he said they were totally useless.
Anyway... like I said, we managed and now we have absolutely no problem whatsoever.. but boy, I surely would love to have had some support from the beginning. |
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peppergirl
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Seems I got really with the maternity hospital here. It's got a unicef 'baby-friendly' certificate, which means that they implement the following 10 steps:
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1.Have a written breastfeeding policy that is routinely communicated to all health care staff.
2.Train all health care staff in skills necessary to implement this policy.
3.Inform all pregnant women about the benefits and management of breastfeeding.
4.Help mothers initiate breastfeeding within a half-hour of birth.
5.Show mothers how to breastfeed, and how to maintain lactation even if they should be separated from their infants.
6.Give newborn infants no food or drink other than breastmilk, unless medically indicated.
7.Practice rooming-in: allow mothers and infants to remain together 24 hours a day.
8.Encourage breastfeeding on demand.
9.Give no artificial teats or pacifiers (also called dummies or soothers) to breastfeeding infants.
10.Foster the establishment of breastfeeding support groups and refer mothers to them on discharge from the hospital or clinic |
Apparently there are only 11 hospitals in Korea with this certificate at the moment. Didn't have the baby yet, so we'll see how well they implement these 10 steps, but they seem to be more breastfeeding oriented then the other maternity hospitals I've seen here. They also have their own lactation consultant and they organise breastfeeding classes. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
I'll have to have another go at checking the baby rooms out. The only one I saw, was when I was a Carrefour. I tried to get in there, but it was so jam-packed with children and mothers that I couldn't even open the door more than 6 inches! So I had to rush home to feed my boy.
Also, the problem for me is that because I am...shall we say...full bosomed, the best method for me and my boy to use is what's known as the clutch hold, where you prop baby on a couple of cushions (or my bag and a soft blanket if we are out) and hold him like an American footballer would hold a football when he's running. You need a comfortable big armchair or couch for this. My sister said that a lot women in Australia who use this method have complained that the government has not provided enough facilities where woman are able to do this. I suspect it's the same in Korea (well, have you seen many korean women with a big bust?). I can nurse the conventional way, but it makes my back ache, and it's extremely uncomfortable to remain that way for 20 minutes. Also, I don't want Korean woman gawking at me (ajummas sometimes feel my boobs!) - so do they have private cubicles? |
Yeah I know the football hold. I tried it but Letty didn't like that very much..
The bigger department stores - like Shinsegae and Hyundai - they have HUGE baby rooms. and they have a private room that you can go to and close the curtain and no one will see you. The Shinsegae in Central City in Gangnam has these really comfortable arm chairs.
You should just go and do a survey!  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| tzechuk wrote: |
My husband got really mad because he said they were totally useless.
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That bit made me chuckle! 
I'll check out some of those baby rooms sometime.
Peppergirl: it sounds good. Just be careful that they stick to it. I had a birthplan that I worked out with my doctor, but the other medical staff didn't want to go by it. I stood firm with them. I didn't let them discuss stuff with my husband either, because he doesn't know anything and he'd just be bewildered by it all. I had a couple of foreign friends with me when I was in labour, and they helped me to stand my ground with the doctor when she was trying to talk me into an unnecessary episiotomy.
Wow, it's my first ever Mother's Day today! What a load of unnecessary comercial crap! I called my mum though, and my husband bought me a bar of chocolate which he pretended was from the baby. |
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