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Another reason not to have an abortion.
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kangnamdragon



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Another reason not to have an abortion. Reply with quote

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/15/nabort15.xml

Revealed: how an abortion puts the next baby at risk


Quote:
Having an abortion almost doubles a woman's risk of giving birth dangerously early in a later pregnancy, according to research that will provoke fresh debate over the most controversial of all medical procedures.


Last edited by kangnamdragon on Sat May 21, 2005 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they came up w/ a male contraceptive then there would be a lot less abortions. In a few years they will have one then there will be a lot less abortions.

They should also increase the tax benefits for adoption.
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shakuhachi



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good lord. I dont know how anyone could be in favor of abortion. It fails the test of the 'Golden Rule', and I dont know of anyone that wishes they had been aborted by their mother.
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New male contraceptive found 99 percent effective: But it's not on shelves yet
The World Health Organization is hailing a new male contraceptive injection as 99 percent effective, and claims it could eventually revolutionize birth control. "This research has been going on for many years and still has a long way to go before it's a marketable contraceptive," she says. The drug is not expected to reach consumers for at least another five to 10 years.
April 2, 1996
CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/9604/02/nfm/

Male contraceptive '100% effective'
Scientists have developed a male contraceptive which was 100% effective and side-effect free in trials.
October 6, 2003
BBC NEWS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3167090.stm

Male Contraceptive Breakthrough?
The world of male contraception has been limited to condoms and vasectomies. But researchers now point to a new method that shows promise -- a shot that prompts an immune reaction to a protein produced in the male reproductive system.
November 10, 2004
CBS NEWS
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/11/health/main655202.shtml

Malecontraceptives.org
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/index.htm

Male Contraception Using Testicular Heating
http://www.puzzlepiece.org/bcontrol/malebc.html
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Apple Scruff



Joined: 29 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shakuhachi wrote:
I dont know of anyone that wishes they had been aborted by their mother.


Deep.
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Tiny_Tibbo



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Location: In My Skin

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are millions of people who wish they would have been aborted by their selfish mother.......
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiny_Tibbo wrote:
there are millions of people who wish they would have been aborted by their selfish mother.......


Could I have the link to this poll.
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Tiny_Tibbo



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Location: In My Skin

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever lived in a ghetto or been in a poverty stricken place? you could take a poll there to start......
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Tiny_Tibbo



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Location: In My Skin

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

however I guess I wouldn't say it is out of selfishness that these children are born....well in the poverty stricken areas that is...but in many ghetto areas.....maybe you could start with the millions of foster kids ...i'm sure some of them wish their mother hadn't been so selfish. And then there are the ones who have been sexually and physically abused since they were born....i'm sure a few out of that group would have wish they were aborted.....ummm.....just an educated guess......no poll to prove it but hey....i'm sure somebody could go and ask people that question to remind them of their hell on earth existance.....
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shakuhachi



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiny_Tibbo wrote:
however I guess I wouldn't say it is out of selfishness that these children are born....well in the poverty stricken areas that is...but in many ghetto areas.....maybe you could start with the millions of foster kids ...i'm sure some of them wish their mother hadn't been so selfish. And then there are the ones who have been sexually and physically abused since they were born....i'm sure a few out of that group would have wish they were aborted.....ummm.....just an educated guess......no poll to prove it but hey....i'm sure somebody could go and ask people that question to remind them of their hell on earth existance.....


By that standard, why not hit the streets of a ghetto and start 'aborting' people that you see on the street with a shotgun? You would be doing them a favor.
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Tiny_Tibbo



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Location: In My Skin

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is not our choice to make......it was their mothers choice that she decided not to choose....for whatever reason that may be
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tiny_Tibbo wrote:
however I guess I wouldn't say it is out of selfishness that these children are born....well in the poverty stricken areas that is...but in many ghetto areas.....maybe you could start with the millions of foster kids ...i'm sure some of them wish their mother hadn't been so selfish. And then there are the ones who have been sexually and physically abused since they were born....i'm sure a few out of that group would have wish they were aborted.....ummm.....just an educated guess......no poll to prove it but hey....i'm sure somebody could go and ask people that question to remind them of their hell on earth existance.....


By that standard, why not hit the streets of a ghetto and start 'aborting' people that you see on the street with a shotgun? You would be doing them a favor.


Quote:
that is not our choice to make......it was their mothers choice that she decided not to choose....for whatever reason that may be


No, but it is the choice of the ghetto kid himself. After all, anyone can commit suicide if they think their life is so horrible. And since relatively few people choose to commit suicide, and those suicides that do occur are often the result of some specific incident as opposed to overall quality-of-life, I think it's safe to assume that most people don't regret being born.

I'm pro-choice, simply because I think that women have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies. But arguments appealing to the supposedly unlivable quality of life in "the ghetto" veer a bit too close to the logic of eugenics for my taste.

All that said, "everyone wants to be born" is a somewhat problematic argument to make against abortion, since it could also be used as an argument against contraception and celibacy, things that most people don't have any moral problem with.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
All that said, "everyone wants to be born" is a somewhat problematic argument to make against abortion, since it could also be used as an argument against contraception and celibacy, things that most people don't have any moral problem with.


Has someone else been reading Peter Singer? I wonder if anyone here would advocate post-birth abortion. Obviously, many people who are pro-choice have scruples with it, most people who are pro-choice also do not respect a mother's choice should she want to abort her child simply because she is female.

My position is pro-choice, but for pragmatic reasons. I believe people would be aborting children whether or not it were illegal. I believe they would be endangering themselves. And I believe that by keeping abortion legal in cases where it might be warranted, we can avoid many illegal abortions where abortion might not be warranted. But I also respect the mother's choice to abort a mentally handicapped child because it's handicapped. Maybe it's because of the golden rule: I wouldn't want to live any longer if I suffered significant mental injury.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But I also respect the mother's choice to abort a mentally handicapped child because it's handicapped. Maybe it's because of the golden rule: I wouldn't want to live any longer if I suffered significant mental injury.


Ah, but if you had been BORN mentally handicapped, but were still smart enough to grasp the concepts of "born" and "not born", would you wish that you had never been born?
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whatthefunk



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Location: Dont have a clue

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shakuhachi wrote:
Good lord. I dont know how anyone could be in favor of abortion. It fails the test of the 'Golden Rule', and I dont know of anyone that wishes they had been aborted by their mother.


thats a crap argument. if you hadnt been born, you wouldnt be here to know the difference. and it would be great to be able to live your life without breaking the golden rule, but how many of us actually do this??
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