Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Another liberal sees the light!
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
funplanet



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Location: The new Bucheon!

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Another liberal sees the light! Reply with quote

And this one is a San Francisco leftie Very Happy Keep it up, lefties....you're a dying breed


www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/22/INGUNCQHKJ1.DTL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
guangho



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
The Man known as The Man



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He would be labeleed as a frightening Conservative with a hidden agenda in Canada.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He would be assassinated in The Netherlands.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
guangho



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leslie Cheswyck wrote:
He would be assassinated in The Netherlands.


Which makes him right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
hypnotist



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two obvious things:

Quote:
I'm leaving the left -- more precisely, the American cultural left and what it has become during our time together.


I don't know what the American cultural left is, but I certainly don't believe it represents the entire body of thoughts and opinions of the left. If you guys on the right do, you're idiots. Do you all agree with each other about everything?

But then, the American right's usual answer to how a country could improve itself is always "become more like America".

Quote:
Leading voices in America's "peace" movement are actually cheering against self-determination for a long-suffering Third World country because they hate George W. Bush more than they love freedom.


Some people in the "peace" movement have indeed come across as pro-Saddam, and many others have been painted that way by a hostile media. It is, however, not pro-Saddam to point out that the elections were hardly fair, were held in the shadow of both occupation and terrorism, and were to make up a largely impotent body unable to change the decisions already made for the country by the ruling American administration.

I cannot believe - and I despair - at how much of a rallying cry Bush's "you're either with us or against us" statement became. Just because some of his (stated) aims are laudable, doesn't mean he is doing the right thing. And frankly, the rest of us don't trust a word he says anyway.

Maybe "The Left" in America has become soggy, lost sight of its driving principles, found itself unable to shout down the powerful and loud right-wing media. So be it. It doesn't make the right right. And I didn't read anywhere him arguing in favour of the policies of Bush, beyond Iraq and Afghanistan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Apple Scruff



Joined: 29 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post

Last edited by Apple Scruff on Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Apple Scruff



Joined: 29 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hypnotist wrote:
Maybe "The Left" in America has become soggy, lost sight of its driving principles, found itself unable to shout down the powerful and loud right-wing media. So be it. It doesn't make the right right.


Yeah, I love how people on the right think of themselves as infinitely principled just because they bark the loudest and charge head-first into situations regardless of the consequences.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:54 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Yes, the poor lefties. They're a dying breed.

I move that all lefties just give up the ghost and become card-carrying Republicans.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Affect change from within.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
guangho



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The right has two great gifts: they can articulate an agenda in thirty seconds and twenty syllables (or less) and have the ability to force everyone who claims to be one of them, be it a Mainer or a Texan to toe the line.

"Terrorists hate freedom."
"Class warfare."
"Soft on crime."
"Liberal judges."
"Right to life."
"The constitutional option."
"You're with us or against us."
"A vote for Kerry is a vote for terror."

What does the left have? Nothing remotely like it- just a lot of handwringing and tons of consultants who premise their six-figure services on the idea that the left, as constructed, is unpalatable to the public and must (by the use of said six-figure services) be sold to Joe Sixpack. And for all that money, they still got no slogans. So let me suggest a few.

"Equality, liberty and justice for all."
"Democracy now."
"For G-d's sake and ours."
"Equal opprtunity."
"Economic freedom."
"The right to be let alone." (There is a huge libertarian sect that the left could tap if they were effective at it.)
"Values worth fighting for." (What values? You tell us.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maybe "The Left" in America has become soggy, lost sight of its driving principles, found itself unable to shout down the powerful and loud right-wing media. So be it. It doesn't make the right right. And I didn't read anywhere him arguing in favour of the policies of Bush, beyond Iraq and Afghanistan.


I didn't read him anywhere saying the right was right. As for the OP, I didn't read him embracing neo-conservatism (or paleo-conservatism, or any other type of it), so much as abandoning current leftist thought because it is incompatible with progressive values.

His criticism of the Left is dead-on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Quote:
Maybe "The Left" in America has become soggy, lost sight of its driving principles, found itself unable to shout down the powerful and loud right-wing media. So be it. It doesn't make the right right. And I didn't read anywhere him arguing in favour of the policies of Bush, beyond Iraq and Afghanistan.


I didn't read him anywhere saying the right was right. As for the OP, I didn't read him embracing neo-conservatism (or paleo-conservatism, or any other type of it), so much as abandoning current leftist thought because it is incompatible with progressive values.

His criticism of the Left is dead-on.


Well said.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
His criticism of the Left is dead-on.


Yes. (But I would say his criticism of certain parts of the Left is dead on.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 6:58 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

To lay it on the line, I believe I would rather concede the next election to the GOP than vote Democrat again.

The point here is also that seeking out or hoping that one side of the political spectrum dies is a fallacy. It will always be there, irregardless of parties. Parties are not provided for in the constitution but are rather a product of it.

To have one side "die" and there be only one party would be a step toward communism. Unless, of course, the grouping of everyone under one party splintered it and naturally resulted in two parties.

It's a shame we can't have more than two (see electoral college and frozen congressional seats).

I honestly don't want "the right" to die. The Right and the the Left are an unwritten system of checks and balances we have.

As such, I would have been far happier if "the Left" had run a full-on anti-war platform against the GOP's clearly pro-war platform. If we'd still lost, it would have been a far more honest, satisfying outcome.

Just as if we'd had a referendum on whether to invade Iraq before we did it.

I'd sleep easier at night if I knew that we did what "the American people" themselves had decided instead of having someone claiming to have the "American people's" support.

To speak for the author of the article, I think he's clearly stated that he's not "gone right". He's instead searching looking for his own politics. Good for him, but I'm not sure exactly what he's saying. It seems he's unhappy that enough people weren't happy enough about Iraq's elections. I don't think that means he buys into the pro-torture, anti-environment, pro-corporation, pro-life stance of the contemporary right.

He leaves these aspects unexamined, and he could fall into the pseudo-left category of Rudy Guliani and Zell Miller.

But, to get back to my original point, why support a party that compromises its convictions to pander to others. A platform, win or lose, should be based on convictions.

So, yes, Republicans win in this respect, but this party is just as corrupt as the other. And parties do die.

So, yes, I'm willing and prepared to let the Democrats die. Why? They don't represent me adequately.

And I suppose that gives a lot of conservatives their jollies, but take a look around.

You wanted tax cuts at the same time you wanted to blow a truck bomb of money on Iraq. To be quite bi-partisan, that is just plain stupid.

Let's say Clinton is the last Democrat president. Talk all you want about his morals, but he balanced the budget and paid back on the deficit.

The economics you voted for ignores the deficit.

In fact, you voted for more.

Enjoy your short-sighted tax cuts and even hope the death of the Democrats, but don't ingulge on the fantasy that the left is going to die.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hypnotist



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
Quote:
Maybe "The Left" in America has become soggy, lost sight of its driving principles, found itself unable to shout down the powerful and loud right-wing media. So be it. It doesn't make the right right. And I didn't read anywhere him arguing in favour of the policies of Bush, beyond Iraq and Afghanistan.


I didn't read him anywhere saying the right was right. As for the OP, I didn't read him embracing neo-conservatism (or paleo-conservatism, or any other type of it), so much as abandoning current leftist thought because it is incompatible with progressive values.

His criticism of the Left is dead-on.


He did say "I'll admit my politics have shifted in recent years" - but my point was aimed at the "yeah, *beep* the left, up the right!" follow-up posters rather than the columnist himself. We're basically making the same point.

It did puzzle me as to where he's gone, though - and why he isn't saying.

Others have called you on your use of "the left" so I won't do so again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International