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Bush Calls Amnesty Report "Absurd"

 
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject: Bush Calls Amnesty Report "Absurd" Reply with quote

Bush: Amnesty Report 'ABSURD' Shocked
Tuesday, May 31, 2005 Posted: 11:54 PM EDT (0354 GMT)



WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush called a human rights report "absurd" for criticizing the United States' detention of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and said Tuesday the allegations were made by "people who hate America."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/31/bush.newsconference.ap/index.html
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I guess he did not see the irony in

Quote:
Bush did not comment directly on the verdict (on Mikhail Khodorkovsky) but said, "it looked like he had been judged guilty prior to having a fair trial."


Some in GT might wonder when they will get a fair trial. Or even any trial. Or maybe even be charged?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
Bush did not comment directly on the verdict (on Mikhail Khodorkovsky) but said, "it looked like he had been judged guilty prior to having a fair trial."


Some in GT might wonder when they will get a fair trial. Or even any trial. Or maybe even be charged?


How many American citizens are detained at Gitmo again?
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I see. So only Americans can be tried fairly?
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bourquetheman



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to break it to you, but the fact that they're human beings kind of supersedes the fact whether they are Americans or not. I know some people will call them savages, etc. but nonetheless they are (or should be) afforded the same rights as any other person. But hey thanks for sarcasm, after all it is a form of humour. Laughing
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wangja wrote:
Ah, I see. So only Americans can be tried fairly?

Yah, the RICH ONES Arrow
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So only Americans can be tried fairly?


No. But there's a world of difference between handling the detainment of POWs who were fighting for a now stateless regime and against an international coalition, and the seizure of a wealthy magnate who was a citizen of a country who spoke out against the government.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has the terminology changed from "detainee" to "PoW" now?

I see you too have missed the irony of GWB's remark.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bourquetheman wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but the fact that they're human beings kind of supersedes the fact whether they are Americans or not. I know some people will call them savages, etc. but nonetheless they are (or should be) afforded the same rights as any other person. But hey thanks for sarcasm, after all it is a form of humour. Laughing


Al Qaida are klansman
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bourquetheman



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
bourquetheman wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but the fact that they're human beings kind of supersedes the fact whether they are Americans or not. I know some people will call them savages, etc. but nonetheless they are (or should be) afforded the same rights as any other person. But hey thanks for sarcasm, after all it is a form of humour. Laughing


Al Qaida are klansman


That's an opinion that you are frequent to voice, but a fact is that they are human beings and deemed the same rights of any others under the Geneva Convention, but oh that's right, that's why they are at Guantonamo as it's being used as a loophole to get around having to classify them as P.O.W's. I know you will say that "having the air-conditioner on full blast and making them listen to Korean pop music" isn't torture, but I haven't heard anything like that being done so I think you're just pulling that from you butt. Making an exception for using torture is a first class ticket to tyranny.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Has the terminology changed from "detainee" to "PoW" now?

I see you too have missed the irony of GWB's remark.


What irony? Perhaps you've missed the distinction between the Khordokovsky case and the detainees at Gitmo. In Russia, eveyone distrusts the police. The word police state is not quite apt, but almost. In America, we have a little problem with dealing with stateless individuals apprehended in Afghanistan. Apples and oranges. Or rather, apple pie and vodka.

Now, I have my own scruples with the way detainees are handled at Gitmo, but it's not exactly Abu Ghraib (meaning that for the most part they didn't just pick up these a-holes off the street and by a tip, in many cases they were shooting live fire against Americans, or fleeing from mountain tops in Afghanistan). The fact that in most cases (admittedly, there are exceptions) they have no government to ransom them, or that their government has abandoned them for one reason or another, shows that on the whole they have had some seedy connections and done some seedy things.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bourquetheman said
Quote:

That's an opinion that you are frequent to voice, but a fact is that they are human beings and deemed the same rights of any others under the Geneva Convention, but oh that's right, that's why they are at Guantonamo as it's being used as a loophole to get around having to classify them as P.O.W's. I know you will say that "having the air-conditioner on full blast and making them listen to Korean pop music" isn't torture, but I haven't heard anything like that being done so I think you're just pulling that from you butt. Making an exception for using torture is a first class ticket to tyranny.



Quote:
subjected to sleep deprivation, physical assault, loud music blasted from
metre-high loudspeakers, and hooding. ... that he has been forced to endure many
hours of cold under air conditioners, and subjected to sleep deprivation


http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510632005


Look for it yourself , then get your head out of your butt bourque

They are not POWs and calling Al Qaida Klansman POWs is an insult to POWs. Al Qaida fighters are criminals and terrorists. They are not POWs.
They are not entitled to the rights of POWs.

They don't have the right not to cooperate.
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bourquetheman



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've proven my point about making an exception to the rule regarding human rights. No matter what you think of them they are still human beings, no matter what spin you try to put on it. The loophole the U.S. government is using to detain them (without charges against many of them) is truly a violation of human rights. And the fact that Amnesty International called a spade a spade frankly takes balls and I hope the rest of the world doesn't let this go unnoticed. If they all are truly Alquaida then charge them and bring them to trial instead of detaining them indefinitely.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bourquetheman wrote:
You've proven my point about making an exception to the rule regarding human rights. No matter what you think of them they are still human beings, no matter what spin you try to put on it. The loophole the U.S. government is using to detain them (without charges against many of them) is truly a violation of human rights. And the fact that Amnesty International called a spade a spade frankly takes balls and I hope the rest of the world doesn't let this go unnoticed. If they all are truly Alquaida then charge them and bring them to trial instead of detaining them indefinitely.


Clinton thought that Bin Laden could not be convicted in a US court.

What is a mid easterner doing in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban?

In the US court system Illegally obtained evidence can't be used. You mean cause the US did an illegal search on them , therefore that evidence ought not to be used. You agree with that?

In the US criminal system prisoners have the right not to cooperate, therefore the US loses information , like that which the US has used to reverse engineer improvised explosives and so jam the bombs used in by the insurgents in Iraq.

Al Qaida fighters are not POWs they are war criminals.

Al Qaida fighters - when we know they are the real deal - should not be allowed to sleep until they cooperate.
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