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Canada Unhappy with U.S. Passenger List Plans
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:22 pm    Post subject: Canada Unhappy with U.S. Passenger List Plans Reply with quote

Canada Unhappy with U.S. Passenger List Plans
By David Ljunggren
Wed Jun 1, 5:39 PM ET

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada is "very worried" by a U.S. proposal that its airlines provide passenger lists for planes flying through American airspace rather than actually landing in the United States, Transport Minister Jean Lapierre said on Wednesday.

Lapierre said the proposal could have "a major effect" on Canadian sovereignty since flights between Canadian cities are often routed over U.S. territory to save fuel.

Of the 160,000 Canadian flights that enter U.S. airspace every year, around 120,000 are traveling domestically

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050601/wl_canada_nm/canada_security_canada_usa_col
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FUBAR



Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: The Y.C.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't see what the problem is. If you are flighting in another country's airspace, I think they have a right to know who are what is flying above their land. It's justified in my eyes, so long as the US reciprocates to all other countries who's airspace they are entering.
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PEIGUY



Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Location: Omokgyo

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FUBAR wrote:
I personally don't see what the problem is. If you are flighting in another country's airspace, I think they have a right to know who are what is flying above their land. It's justified in my eyes, so long as the US reciprocates to all other countries who's airspace they are entering.


I agree, the US must recieve what they dish out. It's only fair!
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PEIGUY wrote:
FUBAR wrote:
I personally don't see what the problem is. If you are flighting in another country's airspace, I think they have a right to know who are what is flying above their land. It's justified in my eyes, so long as the US reciprocates to all other countries who's airspace they are entering.


I agree, the US must recieve what they dish out. It's only fair!


Perhaps the Soviets shot down that U-2 'cos they didn't have the passenger list?
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A plane which flies through US airspace with a terrorist on board which isnt destined for the US is just as dangerous to the US as a plane with a terrorist on board which was destined for a US city anyway.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps most countries have more worthwhile things to do than monitor pasenger lists of arriving flights, let alone those merely flying over.

Imagaine, were that not the case, if all US flights were to produce lists for all flights to, and over, EU countries. Of which there are 25.

Now, I am not an expert on flight paths, but consider a flight from NY to, say, Berlin. It will probably overfly Ireland, UK, Holland until it arrives in German airspace. 4 lists. 4 chances of being ordered to "return to base".

Let's see.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: Canada Unhappy with U.S. Passenger List Plans Reply with quote

Quote:
Of the 160,000 Canadian flights that enter U.S. airspace every year, around 120,000 are traveling domestically

Democracy

It's coming through a hole in the air,
from those nights in Tiananmen Square.
It's coming from the feel that this ain't exactly real,
or it's real, but it ain't exactly there.

From the wars against disorder,
from the sirens night and day,
from the fires of the homeless,
from the ashes of the gay:

Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming through a crack in the wall;
on a visionary flood of alcohol;
from the staggering account of the Sermon on the Mount
which I don't pretend to understand at all.

It's coming from the silence on the dock of the bay,
from the brave, the bold, the battered heart of Chevrolet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the sorrow in the street,
the holy places where the races meet;
from the homicidal bitchin'
that goes down in every kitchen
to determine who will serve and who will eat.

From the wells of disappointment where the women kneel to pray
for the grace of God in the desert here and the desert far away:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on O mighty Ship of State!
To the Shores of Need
Past the Reefs of Greed
Through the Squalls of Hate
Sail on, sail on, sail on, sail on.

It's coming to America first, the cradle of the best and of the worst.
It's here they got the range and the machinery for change
and it's here they got the spiritual thirst.

It's here the family's broken & it's here the lonely say
that the heart has got to open in a fundamental way:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

It's coming from the women and the men.
O baby, we'll be making love again.
We'll be going down so deep & river's going to weep,
and the mountain's going to shout Amen!

It's coming like the tidal flood beneath the lunar sway,
imperial, mysterious, in amorous array:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

Sail on, sail on ...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.

But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up
this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just glad that the supporters of that hate monger Jeff Rense aren't in power.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
just glad that the supporters of that hate monger Jeff Rense aren't in power.

Mmmmmm ... how refreshing. Another novel "ad hominem" attack from an angry Joo Cool

Flame baby flame Laughing
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

igotthisguitar wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
just glad that the supporters of that hate monger Jeff Rense aren't in power.

Mmmmmm ... how refreshing. Another novel "ad hominem" attack from an angry Joo Cool

Flame baby flame Laughing


Whatever just telling the truth about Jeff Rense.

Anyway Jeff Rense is a fascist bigot, so are those behind the American Free Press, and so are their supporters. The US ought to use the Patriot act against them and keep their supporters out of the US.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
The US ought to use the Patriot act against them and keep their supporters out of the US.

SPOOKY !!!
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not as spooky as Jeff Rense and his supporters. Keep them out of the US. and use the Patriot act against them.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>. Spooky.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Not as spooky as Jeff Rense and his supporters. Keep them out of the US. and use the Patriot act against them.


How could the US use the Patriot Act against them if they had been kept out of the US?

Would not a smarter strategy be to let them in (i.e., no objection to a "known" terrorist on a fly list and then arrest them on arrival under the Patriot Act?

I am not sure which article would apply though. But you could choose from here http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12251&c=207

BTW, there are specific provisions for protecting the "Northern Border", but I saw nothing about the western, southern, eastern borders or international airports.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Wangja"]
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
Not as spooky as Jeff Rense and his supporters. Keep them out of the US. and use the Patriot act against them.


Quote:
How could the US use the Patriot Act against them if they had been kept out of the US?


The ones outside should be kept out , and the US should use the patriot act against far right groups in the US

Quote:
Would not a smarter strategy be to let them in (i.e., no objection to a "known" terrorist on a fly list and then arrest them on arrival under the Patriot Act?


It depends hate speech isn't usually a crime.
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