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Non-white teachers in Korea?
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Trinny



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jung is another name for affection you feel for the people you care about. It is a common feeling that all of us have. I am a Korean, I don't think Koreans are any particular in relations to others when it comes to love or affection. You love your husband, wife, boyfriend, girl friend, family or a few friends. What else is new here?

I have an impression that Gyopos who haven't lived in Korea for a lengthy period of time might have a glorified or hyped vision of Korea. Maybe they are viewing Korea through a pair of rosy glasses. Anyway, it is a little absurd to talk about Jung in todays' Korean society.
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rumibaer



Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think Jung transcends mere "affection" . I mean that's just my personal opnion obviously, but I feel that Jung is more than the routine affection that anybody feels for someone they care about. Afterall, you can have Jung with someone you've just met- it doesn't have to be someone you've known for a long time. Realistically, I think that people of a certain pragmatic nature are not going to believe in Jung, no matter what- for example take religion, like Christianity. The biggest problem in explaining Christianity to non-believers, is assuaging their skepticism at how a religion can be centered on a being that you can't even "see", but that's the whole point of faith: believing even when there's no tangible truth that you can hold and touch.

Actually in my experience, most gyo-po's that I know don't really tout Jung that much. For me, it's my friends who are native Koreans who usually try to instill the importance of Jung in me, or talk of how Jung is important to Koreans.
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JW



Joined: 06 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think non-Koreans understand.
I was leaving a movie one day. I saw 3 black people sitting in a cafe. We all froze. Our jaws dropped. I am not in a place with a heavy black population by the way. On a daily basis I see no black people. Anyway, I waved and one threw up the black power fist (before anyone criticizes the "black power fist" please educate yourself about it first). Believe me I felt it. It is the same thing in the states when I see a black man and we nod at eachother as if we know something the rest of the world does not. It a feeling of togetherness even if in the eyes of the world we are disfunctional and disorderly. Malcolm X talked about this feeling. I think all cultures have it. Believe me when I say that I can feel you on this. This does not, however, give me calm when I send friends emails who were turned away from employment. Malcolm X wrote "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." I'm done. Be well.
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Medic



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:42 pm    Post subject: Non-white teachers in Korea? Reply with quote

Aint nothing but a tad of the collective unconscious
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.W- The black power fist: we used to have a similar gesture in Rhodesia during the war. It signified that we were all fighting for our country's future, nobody outside of our sanctioned country understood us, but blow them anyway. Shame we're all of various races so we can't recognise eachother now.
Maybe all the foreign teachers here should have a "board marker" gesture or similar. we all know what eachothers going through!!!
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gyopoboy



Joined: 02 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that esl teachers who frequent this board have this illusion that they are either intellectual or right minded...

well folks, that's all it is.. just an illusion... you're all just a bunch of asses...

"Koreans are prejucided against blacks"

right... all 65 million koreans have a burning hatred for people of colour...

(something along the lines of...) "God I wish the Cosby show was aired in Korea.. that'd change their simple little minds about african americans"

right... the cosby show. the most historically defining SITCOM... i bet if that thing was aired 40 years earlier, it would've ended segregation a decade or two earlier. the cosby show would have to be one of the most pathetic shows network execs could've come up with~... you could've just seen them in their board rooms..

"hey guys, lets write a sitcom about a black family.. who live like white people! then we'll put them in these hilarious situations with a black twist! that'll show america that black people don't all rap...!"

well anyway, enough about the cosby show... i'm not a cynic, but reading posts here turns me into one...

guys, don't act so high and mighty... don't over generalise (some people will actually believe you) and remember, you're not in kansas anymore. there are bound to be differences.. don't try to be a new yorker when your in seoul...

ya dig?
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Wombat



Joined: 28 May 2003
Location: slutville

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has no bearing on Korea in general - it's simply an experience I've had while working in Korea. Last year, a black man came into the hagwon - I believe he selling something - and the boss simply REFUSED to talk to him. She wouldn't look at him, wouldn't say a word. Just stood there facing away from him, looking angry until he left. It was unbelievable! Later, she recounted how "afraid" she'd been, and how "they aren't people." I was shocked to say the least, but didn't say anything - it was obvious that there was nothing I could say to change her mind. Shocked

Give Korea twenty years to join the global scene - they're still developing in a lot of ways.

Wombat
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wombat wrote:
This has no bearing on Korea in general - it's simply an experience I've had while working in Korea. Last year, a black man came into the hagwon - I believe he selling something - and the boss simply REFUSED to talk to him. She wouldn't look at him, wouldn't say a word. Just stood there facing away from him, looking angry until he left. It was unbelievable! Later, she recounted how "afraid" she'd been, and how "they aren't people." I was shocked to say the least, but didn't say anything - it was obvious that there was nothing I could say to change her mind. Shocked

Give Korea twenty years to join the global scene - they're still developing in a lot of ways.

Wombat
I did have a rather strange experience a weekend ago or two.. basically me and this other waegook met these two korean girls in Itaewon and went bar hopping.. as we were walking around.. we decided to go into King Club.. upon entrance I saw this one very cool guy from Gabon (africa), who've I've drank beer with on occassion.. I grabbed his hand, and said 'hey, how's it going?'.. and the Korean girl I was with started cowering in fear.. it was the strangest response I've ever seen.. actually I felt really embarrassed even being around her after that response.. was afraid she might just freak out the entire time in the club.. she didn't fortunately.. but it was a very weird moment
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bubbles



Joined: 22 Jul 2003
Location: Hawaii, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:45 am    Post subject: don't know if anyone will read this but... Reply with quote

I grew up in Asia, Europe, and the U.S. I grew up with best friends who were Middle-easterners (Jews and Arabics), black, white, Hispanic, and Asian. I don't remember ever feeling particularly more or less closer to any one of these friends based on their ethnicity. I think friendships can transcend nations and people. That said, I must say that in most places, people are almost equally closed-minded and hostile toward strangers--especially foreigners!

There will always be nice people, and the extremely mean ones as well, but a good portion (and I'm not giving you any statistics or numbers here) would prefer to stick with their own kind (this doesn't necessarily mean race as much as perhaps the people from their own town or country). Some are more tactful about hiding their negative feelings toward strangers (ever heard of the cold-hearted yet smily white folks?), some are extremely expressive (yup, I've been hit upon/called names by blacks I've met here in the U.S., and yes, persons of other races have never done the same to me), and still others are direct yet in another way (it's the silent talks behind your back and gazes you get, if you don't know what I mean). Personal reactions are nothing when you compare this to laws made to discriminate against foreigners. They are not much better in so-called developed/civilized western nations (except for America where the door is pretty much open for everybody... again in very relative terms so don't try to argue on this point please) than they are in developing countries.

Personally, in every place I've lived at other than Korea, and this despite the fact that I have been living only in major capitals around the world, people have been talking about me in front of me and behind my back about everything from "she's a chink" to "how adorable, that little girl speaks _________ so well (duh, that was the only language I had learned at that time)". I have also never been able to meet someone who couldn't find anything to comment about my being Asian (and this even in a very multicultural major city in the US) whether it was meant as a good or bad thing.

My point is, before you complain about Koreans being narrow-minded and not fair enough to others, if this issue really bothers you so much, be the open-minded person yourself and take this as a learning experience to try to think from THE OTHER person's point of view. And before you talk about "but in my country it's not as bad... it's simply outrageous what they do here in Korea", trust me when I tell you that I have taken enough classes in college (yes, an American one) and read enough books and articles on this issue all which said that racism is still officially very much a major issue in the States as well as in other western countries: some of it brought upon by the white majority, others by discrimination amongst the minority races themselves.

Also, Korea is still a developing country: Koreans themselves get discriminated for many different reasons in ways you can't even imagine. The staring and discrimination you feel you are getting in the hiring process (including less pay) is nothing compared to what Koreans have to go through. It's a big problem and it's something that Koreans will have to fix amongst themselves (who knows when that'll happen), but until then, I can guarantee you that no matter how upset you personally feel about being treated like a foreigner in Korea, you are so much more luckier living in Korea as a foreigner and it won't get any better.

Well, as a doomed person being born a Korean who has to feel most comfortable in her own backyard where everyone else looks like her *grin* I think I've said more than enough here. Urgh, I have to stop getting worked up on these things and start posting more positive posts...
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HardyandTiny



Joined: 03 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthur Fonzerelli wrote:
narsty dog wrote:

Basically koreans are wanna be followers of the white people with capitalist dreams of world domination and no respect for the environment ( US kyoto protocol rejection etc. ) as long as they keep up their 'comfortable' lifestlye.


Man, you are bitter... Move on bro, move on...


I with Fonzie...yooooo!

And I have to ask Narsty Dog; If so, what are YOU exactly?
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JW



Joined: 06 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gyo

I see where you are trying to go. I've heard this before. I had even said it when debating a woman about sexism against women on the job. I found that my argument, though valid to a degree, was still not fair. I am not a woman. I was forced to visit and revisit my own chauvinism. It is easy for me to look on the surface and say that women have it good now when I compare it to 1901 but dare I compare their situation to mine right here and now.

Point is that yes we are talking about racism here in Korea. That is what the thread is about. Sure there is racism in other countries. Start a topic about that and I'll post if I'd been there to experience it. It is just disheartening to endure such things in your own country and then travel over seas only to find that it is alive and well here too. Maybe you should read between the lins of some of these notes. You may find a little pain and dissappointment. This is not New York but it is the world. We don't exit in small sections where saying "I don't want to hire her because he is from India" is ok. That shhh is not cool anywhere as far as I'm concerned. When left unchecked those thoughts will grow like cancer. Do you honestly think the Bubble Sisters thought up the pickinanny drag without looking at images from the states. The cancer grows my friend. I think the worst part about descussing this is not the bickering. It is the denial and atempt at justifying it. That's another 2 cents from JW.

PS
Gyo as far as the Cosby Show.. read or watch "Free your mind and return to the source" By Asa Hilliard. You may learn that not everyone saw such sitcoms as a definitive view of Af Am life.
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gomurr



Joined: 04 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a guy in Kangnung I know thats mixed blood. When I worked in Chung-ju back in '99, there were a couple from Trinidad Tobago of all places teaching English. There are alot of filipino/filipina's posing as missionaries and teaching English. My wife was teaching for awhile in Kangnung.
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HardyandTiny



Joined: 03 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were black and American I would take advantage of the guaranteed government jobs.
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JAMZ



Joined: 18 May 2004
Location: Ori Station, Bundang

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiger Beer,

in an earlier post (i couldn't find it) you asked about the filipino community in toronto... i'm a canadian born filipino living in toronto and to answer your questions yes there is a VERY large filipino community here in toronto but it's not localized. It's just spread out accross the city.

I've been hearing that filipinos are discriminated against in korea and being filipino would make it difficult for me to find a teaching job there (so far i havent had any luck but my job search hasnt been very intensive yet). On the other hand though i met a korean exchange student here in toronto who is from seoul and she told me that i shouldn't have a problem being discriminated against because i speak proper english and have good pronounciation. So basically i've been getting mixed reviews on how receptive potential employers (and koreans in general) are towards filipino people. This thread deals mostly with the debate over black vs. white prospective teachers... i want to know if anyone can tell me how much of a problem i can expect being filipino, in both my job search AND with living in korea (i plan to go to seoul). I also have 2 friends whom are also filipino who plan to go to korea as well and any help clearing up this issue for us would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]
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Alyallen



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAMZ wrote:
Tiger Beer,

in an earlier post (i couldn't find it) you asked about the filipino community in toronto... i'm a canadian born filipino living in toronto and to answer your questions yes there is a VERY large filipino community here in toronto but it's not localized. It's just spread out accross the city.

I've been hearing that filipinos are discriminated against in korea and being filipino would make it difficult for me to find a teaching job there (so far i havent had any luck but my job search hasnt been very intensive yet). On the other hand though i met a korean exchange student here in toronto who is from seoul and she told me that i shouldn't have a problem being discriminated against because i speak proper english and have good pronounciation. So basically i've been getting mixed reviews on how receptive potential employers (and koreans in general) are towards filipino people. This thread deals mostly with the debate over black vs. white prospective teachers... i want to know if anyone can tell me how much of a problem i can expect being filipino, in both my job search AND with living in korea (i plan to go to seoul). I also have 2 friends whom are also filipino who plan to go to korea as well and any help clearing up this issue for us would be greatly appreciated.
[/quote]

Hi JAMZ,

I don't know if I can help much but this what I have heard/ witnessed from 2002.

I know 2 Filipinas who came to Korea for 6 and 12 months respectively.

The first Filipina is a former teacher of mine. She was a guest professor for a University in Daejeon. She said she had a good experience there and so did her American (White) husband and daughter (I only point out the race of her husband to further point out the lack of racial issues for her and her family in her time in Korea). The only odd experience that I remember her mentioning was that some older people would get mad at her because they thought she was Korean and didn't know the language. Never mind the fact that my teacher doesn't look Korean AT ALL! But once they figured out she wasn't Korean, they were really nice to her.

My other friend is A Filipina of Chinese descent, so her experience might not be the same for a hmmm "typical" Filipina. But oddly enough, she also had the same experience as my former teacher. I witnessed people yelling at her in Korean because she spoke to them with an accent that wasn't Korean. She either just walked away or explained that she wasn't Korean. But...I only saw this happen a few times. She was in Korea for a year and I do know that she enjoyed her time there.

I hope my information helped. And if it helps any, I'm Black and as an exchange student in Korea, I had no problems in relation to my race.

Good luck,
AlyAllen
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