Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

All You Diehards
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Travel Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demonicat wrote:
While consistency is good (go at the same times every week), intensity is the key. One of the key works of bodybuilding (or simply body shaping) is progressive resistance-i.e. in order to keep growing (bigger, stronger, or leaner) one needs to continually increase the workload. Concievably this could be done by increasing time spent, or by icreasing weight. In reality, increasing time spent leads to a decrease in good form (and therefore injuries and slowed growth) as well the always present spectre of overtraining. Therefore, increasing weight moved is the way to go (yes there are other highly advanced ways of intensity increasement-static strip, partial reps, forced negatives, i.e.- but they are way out of the league of a beginner).
Recognizing that one has to increase the weight, the question becomes: how? The traditional golden rule of thumb was once one could complete all reps of all sets with relative ease, then one was ready to increase weight by 5-10%. Try this out and I'm sure you'll be sucessful.

As far as bb.com goes, if all one is buying is whey protein, then your are better off visiting the import market at Namdaemun (hours are 10-6M-F) and looking around. Recently (May) I saw a 2K tub of prolab for 40.000W- which wasn't bad- just make sure to check the expiration dates which are clearly printed. If, however, anything else is needed, bb.com can end up cheaper even after shipping. With the exception of namdaemuns prolab (which is subject to availability) Korea tends to be outrageously priced (Korean made whey sold at bodybuilding shops go for 100.000-150.000 per 2K.).

One thing to make a note of: In this (what is becoming) column, I have made constant mentions of the importance of a high-protein diet. There are two VERY important things that I have failed to mention: water and multivitamins. Every day try to take in AT LEAST 4 litres of water, it aids in muscle growth, health, and fat loss. In fact, some have gone as far as to label water the miracle weight loss substance that so many people crave. My second note is to make sure and include a multivitamin. Good ones can be found at most pharmacies in Korea (Atomix seemed ok). I, personally like Animal Pak by universal nutrition (www.bodybuilding.com). The bottom line is that as peripetic teachers/dieters/bodybuilders our diets can be less than perfect- and a proper multi will help correct any defiencies.



I like this post. Solid advice!!!

I would only add this. Stay away from processed carbs (white rice, white bread, bagels). The majority of carbs should come from fruits and vegetables. Processed carbs are digested more rapidly, causing a insulin spike which could lead to increased fat storage. And try and avoid saturated fats. Go for heathy fats like those in virgin olive oil.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Try and flex your "lower" and "upper" chests individually. Can't be done, since the pec muscle is just one muscle.


I can do it. Even in the poor shape I am in today, I can do it sitting here in front of this key board.

I agree wit hyou though when you say that most cannot but after a decade of training... i can. I can make itso you can bounce a quater off of my upper peck while the lower part feels softer than your momma's ______ (just joshin' man).

Seriously, you do not have to be a genetic wonder. I have trained with some of the top bodybuilders in Canada and I must say (at one time) I know what I am doing.

I don't proport to be the anatomy wiz some of my buds are but when it comes to "gym physics" I know how to seperate a muscle.

Many people confuse the pectoralis major and minor


But I think this is a better example of upper and lower sections of the major itself.




Speaking of genetic freaks, when I was looking through my old gym photos I stumbled accross this one of myself, some genetic freak, and the owner of my gym. See if you recognize this guy (its from about 8 years ago)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Try and flex your "lower" and "upper" chests individually. Can't be done, since the pec muscle is just one muscle.


I can do it. Even in the poor shape I am in today, I can do it sitting here in front of this key board.

I agree wit hyou though when you say that most cannot but after a decade of training... i can. I can make itso you can bounce a quater off of my upper peck while the lower part feels softer than your momma's ______ (just joshin' man).

Seriously, you do not have to be a genetic wonder. I have trained with some of the top bodybuilders in Canada and I must say (at one time) I know what I am doing.

I don't proport to be the anatomy wiz some of my buds are but when it comes to "gym physics" I know how to seperate a muscle.

Many people confuse the pectoralis major and minor


But I think this is a better example of upper and lower sections of the major itself.




Speaking of genetic freaks, when I was looking through my old gym photos I stumbled accross this one of myself, some genetic freak, and the owner of my gym. See if you recognize this guy (its from about 8 years ago)


I'd pay money to see that (flexing parts of your chest individually). Are you saying that you can make the top or lower part of your pec major move without the other part moving at all, even slightly? If so you violate all the laws of anatomy and seriously should consider donating your body to science. Cool

And is that Ronnie Coleman in your photo?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that is him. Shoot, I'm glad half his arm is covered in that shot. Embarassed

Anyways, what I am saying is that I can make flex my upper pec while relaxing the lower portion.

My point is, we are disagreeing on fine details here. While i agree that the majority of people cannot do it there are those who have dedicated great portions of their lives to training their bodies.

In University I got in numerous discussions with the Phys Ed dept guys and it always came down to the burden of proof. They had the books and I had my body. They would say something isn't so and I would show them that it was. They would say its due to genetics or drugs and I would say...







So? Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've dedicated 15 years of my life to training my body and I still can't do that. Nor can anyone else I know. Anyway some bedtime reading.


http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=4730&page3&pp=25

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=1608

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=4227&page-2&pp=25

A few jokers on these threads, but if you look at the more serious ones (especially the second one) you can see some good information.

Anyway it probably won't change either of our minds so let's agree to disagree and move on. 'Kay? Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the links man. The second one is worth a read and while I do not totally agree with every conclusion he makes, they have merit.


Quote:
The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals...In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense...it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do)...


I agree that anatomically they may not be distict as seperate muscles but I truely believe that the plane of motion of which they exert force on determines thier development and thus, for practical applications, their separation.

Quote:
Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions...When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion...Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps


Again, I agree to a point. However I have seen far too many muscles developed in such a way as to contradict this "truth". If it is "impossible" to flew/stimulate only one part of a given muscle (while not involving other portions/heads) how would one explain those with massive outter pec development while lacking inner growth? Or what about those with loaves of bread hanging off the back of their arms (rear head of the tri) but lacking other parts? I have seen this in the gym and can usually identify it after observing their training. sometimes it is simply a genetic trait but more commonly it is in their training. If it is impossible to isolate one part of the muscle... then would their development not be equal all around (in each given musle)?

Quote:
Many proponents of the so-called ˇ°isolationˇ± approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the ˇ°targetˇ± region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation


This is more along my lines of thinking.

Quote:
In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.


And I dissagree with this. While TUT is a great factor I do not believe it is the only one. Degree of stress, resistance, fiber recruitment, and contraction points are all others I would include.

Quote:
The ability to ˇ°isolateˇ± a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are

Gee, do you think he means me?

Quote:
In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved.

Agreed

Overall a good post but I beg to differ on a few points. As you can see from the responses the community is still disagreeing on it. Also note he mentions only the pectoralis major, it seems the jury is also out on whether the minor would be included in all this chest development talk. Someone posted about only pumping the upper pec... well, if I was in half-way decent shape, i'd post a pic. Wink




here are some oldies but goodies.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=203729&highlight=#203729

(ah fudge, it seems that the "ESL Fitness Challenge" has been deleted. Too bad too cuz it was one of my favorites on here)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Thanks for the links man. The second one is worth a read and while I do not totally agree with every conclusion he makes, they have merit.


Quote:
The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals...In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense...it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do)...


(1) I agree that anatomically they may not be distict as seperate muscles but I truely believe that the plane of motion of which they exert force on determines thier development and thus, for practical applications, their separation.

Quote:
Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions...When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion...Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps


(2) Again, I agree to a point. However I have seen far too many muscles developed in such a way as to contradict this "truth". If it is "impossible" to flew/stimulate only one part of a given muscle (while not involving other portions/heads) how would one explain those with massive outter pec development while lacking inner growth? Or what about those with loaves of bread hanging off the back of their arms (rear head of the tri) but lacking other parts? I have seen this in the gym and can usually identify it after observing their training. sometimes it is simply a genetic trait but more commonly it is in their training. If it is impossible to isolate one part of the muscle... then would their development not be equal all around (in each given musle)?

Quote:
Many proponents of the so-called ˇ°isolationˇ± approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the ˇ°targetˇ± region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation


This is more along my lines of thinking.

Quote:
In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.


(3) And I dissagree with this. While TUT is a great factor I do not believe it is the only one. Degree of stress, resistance, fiber recruitment, and contraction points are all others I would include.

Quote:
The ability to ˇ°isolateˇ± a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are

(3) Gee, do you think he means me?

Quote:
In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved.

Agreed

(4) Overall a good post but I beg to differ on a few points. As you can see from the responses the community is still disagreeing on it. Also note he mentions only the pectoralis major, it seems the jury is also out on whether the minor would be included in all this chest development talk. Someone posted about only pumping the upper pec... well, if I was in half-way decent shape, i'd post a pic. Wink




here are some oldies but goodies.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=203729&highlight=#203729

(ah fudge, it seems that the "ESL Fitness Challenge" has been deleted. Too bad too cuz it was one of my favorites on here)



(numbers are mine)

A couple of good points, but I'd just like to respond to some of your points I numbered.

1. Well your belief is your belief and you are fully entitled to it. But in terms of scientific proof, belief doesn't count for much, as I am sure you can agree.

2. As for the examples you mentioned. For the guy with the pecs, genetics could be one cause. As for the guy with the triceps, well that is a different muscle all together. It has three distinct heads, thus allowing for the possibility that one or more could be well developed with a lagging part left behind.

3. No idea. Do you post there? Laughing


4. Not really. A quick look does yield that impression but in the main the disagreeing responses tend to come from relative newbies, while the people who have been there a while (and have been training numberous years) nearly always oppose the idea that you can train separate parts of the pec muscle. As a long-time member of this site I can vouch for that. As for the pec minor yes the jury is still out on that, which is why I mentioned it a few posts above.

Thanks for the link by the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

now I know why this seems like de-ja vu'

mauahahahaha



so, we meet again Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Qinella



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demonicat wrote:
Inclines hit the upper chest, Straights focus on the middle and lower. I'd try diamond (also called marine) pushups to really blast it.Simply bring your hands together and make a diamond with your thumbs and forefingers. Its *beep*'. Do them to failure, wait a minute, do it again, repeat for 4 or five sets. Do this 3 or 4 times a week. Enjoy.


It seems like those put almost all the pressure on my triceps. Maybe I'm doing them wrong.

Which area do declines hit?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Qinella



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Qinella wrote:
While you're on the topic, can you tell me the best way to build lower chest without any weights? I can't stand going to the gym, it's just ultra boring for me, so I work out at home. The only part of my body I'm unhappy with is my lower pecs because they aren't completely firm, so should I be concentrating more on incline pushups, or would standard pushups be best?


one trick I used to do when I trained at home was "kitchen dips". I'm not sure how well it'd work in Korea but in my (strong) Canadain kitchen I was able to use the -V- corner of my counter for dips.


That's a good idea. I can probably bring two chairs together and extend my legs out, so I'd be working abs, pecs and tris in one move. Good tip.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will sound funny but,

When doing dips if you keep your chin up it seems to focus more in Tri's

while if you put your chhin down your draw it more into your chest
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Demonicat



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, take a look at this and see if this is what you're doing:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Real=%3C%3D+7&Name=&MainMuscle=Chest&Equip=BodyOnly&Isolation=&order=Name
(push-ups close hands position)

Declines (here we go with another flame war), work the lower areas of the chest region
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Thunndarr



Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not an expert on this by any means but there is an awful lot of talk about muscle compartmentalization over at BB.com these days, which basically states that a single muscle fiber does not in fact, run the entire length of the muscle, and that therefore, certain movements will tend to work different areas of the muscle more.

So, if this is true, it would indeed be possible to work different areas of the muscle. At least, that is the current theory.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thunndarr



Joined: 30 Sep 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In other news, they have 6 lb. tubs of whey protein at Costco for 36,000 won. Pretty good deal for Korea, assuming the quality is ok. Just an fyi.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Badmojo



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demonicat, I would like to thank you for your exercise routine. I've been doing it for a month, and man, it's been spot on. Each day's taking me about an hour and I am getting stronger. I can see the progress especially on Fridays when I'm doing those pushups.

Once I get to China, Tuesday and Fridays are going to be massage days. Your Friday plan leaves me in a hunk of disabled sweat on the floor. I loathe Friday's especially because of those squats. I don't even want to think of the gym.

Anyway thank you again. I think I'm finally working out correctly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Travel Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International