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?- Korea and Christianity
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gang ah jee



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this was discussed a bit before

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=4722&highlight=christianity
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wormholes101



Joined: 11 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or maybe its the free alcohol, side food plus you get to sit in a chair. Guess its better than prostrating yourself 100 times before Buddah. Cool
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FierceInvalid



Joined: 16 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry backtracking a little but I couldn't believe this one:

Quote:
christianity is not xenophobic? why do people have to convert to christianity then? I don't recall having met any practising muslims in the christian clergy, or athiest sunday school teachers. No doubt these people wouldn't want to be in these positions but neither would they be given the opportunity. That is at least not without the obligatory "conversion" or acceptance of christian tenents, canon, orthodoxy etc.


So, to summarize: Christianity is xenophobic because in order to be Christian you must be a Christian. You must actually believe in Christianity in order to be Christian? It's almost like Christianity is a system of beliefs and not a club or occupation! Those bastards! Astounding.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OverLeft quote: "Anthropologists- those folks who call themselves(are most widely recognized as)experts(I'm a cultural anthropologist myself) in this area of study, would say that the two forms of ancestor worship(in a broad sense, the reification of the dead) are basically the same".

Overleft: if anthropologists really think that there is no major difference, both in terms of emotional content and societal impact, between worshipping Christ because you think he was the one and only Incarnation of God, and worshipping some guy who died ten years ago because he happened to be your own grandfather, then my respect for anthropologists is now even lower than it was before.
Of course, the family unit is important in the once-Christian west as well, but don't you think that the patriarchal family MIGHT just have a bit more autonomy from social control in a society in which parents and grandparents are worshipped as gods?
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Hank Scorpio



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wombat wrote:
At last!! A religious discussion! Smile

It's curious. I often wonder why Buddhism made it big in Asia, whilst Hinduism (the mother of Buddhism), fell at the wayside. I'm not trying to divert the thread here, but are there any opinions on that one?

Wombat


Probably because Hinduism isn't in the realistic sense a coherent religion in it's own right; it's pretty much the amalgamation of thousands of differing tribal beliefs into one umbrella religion with many widely differing practices.

Before anyone gets their panties in a twist, I'm not denigrating the Hindu faith, just pointing out that as a proseltyzing religion it lacks coherency and a simple message like Islam and Christianity possess.
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is one that stumps me:

If I have a girlfriend whose parents are SO Christian, she cannot possibly marry a white guy because it goes against Christian values.

Last I checked, Jesus was more white than Korean.....
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wombat wrote:
At last!! A religious discussion! Smile

It's curious. I often wonder why Buddhism made it big in Asia, whilst Hinduism (the mother of Buddhism), fell at the wayside. I'm not trying to divert the thread here, but are there any opinions on that one?

Wombat

Possibly for the same reasons that Christianity over-took Judaism, and Islam is now overtaking Christianity? Dunno, just a random thought.
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itaewonguy



Joined: 25 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think more than half the christians that attend those churches are NOT EVEN REAL CHRISTIANS!! they are korean christians..
meaning they have their own set of beliefs that fall into korean society!

A true christian would not think twice of a foreigner joining their family marrying there daughter!
A true christian wouldnt discriminate!!

I feel most chirstians in the world a NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS!!

the preists here who take 10% of their followers income , turn up at the church in the morning in a new BMW and walking around smiling accepting envelopes IS NO REAL CHRISTIAN!!!
with the amount of churches in this country why arent orphans being taken better care of!!

I have two mothers right now who give 10% of their pay checks and I assure you their incomes are over 5 million a month!! one is over 10!
that church has 20.000 members!! COME ON!!
where is all the money going!!!
the buddists too!!! come on!!
red cross, salvation army!! BOLLOCKS! I heard that more than 80% of the donations are spent on running the company and maybe 20% IF THAT MORE LIKE 10% get to the needy!!

money is the deadliest sin of them all!! and the temptation is too much for even the pastor!!
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K-in-C



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Heading somewhere

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:48 am    Post subject: True christians Reply with quote

[quote="itaewonguy"] A true christian would not think twice of a foreigner joining their family marrying there daughter.

God gave us all free will. He also gave us Jesus. Jesus died on the cross, and through his sacrifice, all those who believe in him are saved. If christians were perfect, Jesus would not have had to die. It sure is nice to know that there is unconditional love regardless of our imperfections. Very Happy

Cheers,

Kate
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AmusedIndeed
Guest




PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

itaewonguy wrote:
I think more than half the christians that attend those churches are NOT EVEN REAL CHRISTIANS!! they are korean christians..
meaning they have their own set of beliefs that fall into korean society!

A true christian would not think twice of a foreigner joining their family marrying there daughter!
A true christian wouldnt discriminate!!

I feel most chirstians in the world a NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS!!

the preists here who take 10% of their followers income , turn up at the church in the morning in a new BMW and walking around smiling accepting envelopes IS NO REAL CHRISTIAN!!!
with the amount of churches in this country why arent orphans being taken better care of!!

I have two mothers right now who give 10% of their pay checks and I assure you their incomes are over 5 million a month!! one is over 10!
that church has 20.000 members!! COME ON!!
where is all the money going!!!
the buddists too!!! come on!!
red cross, salvation army!! BOLLOCKS! I heard that more than 80% of the donations are spent on running the company and maybe 20% IF THAT MORE LIKE 10% get to the needy!!

money is the deadliest sin of them all!! and the temptation is too much for even the pastor!!


Ease up there big boy...
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AmusedIndeed
Guest




PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Wall of Whiner wrote:
Last I checked, Jesus was more white than Korean.....


Jesus was white??? No wonder why you're in Korea teaching english.

And how did you check... did he come to you one sudden evening when you were but a little boy? Was that the same Jesus that told you not to tell any adults of his "special visit"???
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OverLeft



Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Location: Listening to Radiohead "I might be wrong"

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogbert and others... I agree that I should take responsibility for the nature and outcome of this dicussion (ie it's my fault that it has turned out so emotive and irrational..). However it is not due to any purposive intent on my part. It is my fault the discussion ended up the way it has because I was ignorant of the receiveing audience to which is was posing the question...Being new to daves I didn't know there were so many christians here...

Asking christians why christianity spreads is not the best way toward starting an objective discussion....Looking on my first post, now I realize in a supercharged religious atmosphere like this, my question begs the fallacious "Affirming the Consequent" argument in response.

Which is why many of the responses fit this mold....

-If A then B.
-B therefore A.

This is obviously seen to be false after a few seconds thought, so why is it so often posited as an argument by religious people?

Examples of this we have already seen on this short thread:

-If christianity is the most good, comprehensive, understandable worldview in existence then people will naturally be attracted to it.
-People are attracted to christianity therefore it is the most good, comprehensive, understandable world view in existence.

-God causes christianity to spread.
-Christianity spreads, therefore god caused it.

I might as well have asked :"Hey John Paul II, why does christianity proliferate in area X? try to remain objective please.."


Note: I don't have a problem with christianity in particular; like I said earlier, I believe all world religions have positive and negative aspects.
-So, why have I seemed to center only on christianity? In the context of this thread it seems obvious, but since so many people have assumed otherwise I'll answer......
-If a discussion centers on christianity, I tend to discuss christianity.

I really don't discriminate....I could debate against false arguments on just about any topic of discussion....
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The Great Wall of Whiner



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmusedIndeed wrote:

Quote:
Jesus was white??? No wonder why you're in Korea teaching english.


Where did I say "Jesus was white"?

How about this: after you get your eyes checked, re-read my post.


Quote:
And how did you check... did he come to you one sudden evening when you were but a little boy?


The bible says he was a Jew. Jews are more white than Koreans. That is what I said. Let's go back to school now and learn how to read, okay?


Quote:
Was that the same Jesus that told you not to tell any adults of his "special visit"???


Um don't talk to me like your such a frigg'n no-it-all because obviously you don't seeing as you have a hard time grasping the basics of reading.
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FierceInvalid



Joined: 16 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OverLeft wrote:
Quote:
Asking christians why christianity spreads is not the best way toward starting an objective discussion....


I see no reason to draw the conclusion that most of the people who have responded are Christian. They just disagree with you. Except for Kate's (that I can see right now, I admit I didn't go back and re-read the entire thread), none of the posts reflect an obviously Christian viewpoint to me, unless you're willing to extrapolote that from the fact because they are defending it in some way.
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Wombat



Joined: 28 May 2003
Location: slutville

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hank~

You're quite right, actually. Hinduism is a vague, epic body of (sometimes very confusing) texts. There are no basic tenets of faith in Hinduism; well, there are, but they are not as explicitly laid out as in some other faiths (like Islam or Judaism).

Ask any Hindu if what they practice is soley religion, and the chances are they'll answer no, it is a broad-spectrum way of life as well.

This adds up to a big picture of Hinduism being difficult to grasp for the "beginner"; it's also curious to point out that, like Judaism, one has to be born Hindu to rightfully lay claim to that particular set of deities. (That doesn't seem to deter the steady influx of hippy converts though!)

Om~
Wombat
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