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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: Dumbya, a little perspective, please: |
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The global threat to humanity from terrorism is so small as to be meaningless.
1900- 2004: Accidents 500 K (150K/yr Medical Mistakes, 100K/yr Auto Accidents.)
- Each *year* in the US alone some 20- 30k die from car accidents.
1900 - 2004 Natural Disasters 21 M
(Incl. Drought) World: 250K/yr Drought 50%, Floods: 34%, Windstorms 6%, Earthquakes: 9%, Volcanoes: 0.5%, Landslides 0.3%, Avalanches 0.1% (Source: "The Vulnerable Become More Vulnerable" New York Times Week in Review, Jan. 2, 2005.) Other sources report fewer deaths with earthquakes exceeding floods. US: Heat: 32%, Flood: 22%, Lightning: 17%, Tornedo: 12%, Winter: 9%, Cold: 4%, Hurricane: 3%, Earthquake: 1% (See: US Weather Deaths)
1900 - 2004 Pandemic 46 M (2.6M/yr.; AIDS: 23M total as of 2004)
1900 - 2004 Wars 60 M Civilian and Military deaths in the 20th century
1900 - 2004 Democide (Genocide, Rebellions, ...) 80 M (180 M in last 200yrs.)
And that bogeyman terrorism????
- Terrorism (1972-2003) 12 K (11K 1980-99 per State Dept.) And let me add oh, maybe 5 - 7k since 99?
http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/hist/disasters-war.html
Yes, I understand that with "terrorism" you're dealing with socio-political disruption, but someone want to tell me New Orleans isn't disrupted? South Asia? Central America? Is there anywhere that *isn't* disrupted in some way? The issue as I see it is question of proportionate response and allocation of resources.
Why do leaders and citizens not stop to think: Hmmm... Let's see. A militant bloody fool hits the WTC and 3000 die so lets spend BILLIONS and KILL tens/hundreds of thousands vs. having tsunami warning systems world wide and levies in New Orleans, Venice and some of those Pacific Island nations, and improved building standards and practices around the world.... what would the aggregate loss be in terms lives, cost and disruption?
No brainer! Let's keep those terrorists in check while we deal with the really dangerous stuff like storms, earthquakes and madmen running around killing millions...
Why, oh, why doesn't this happen??
Hint: this has been a rhetorical public service Q and A session. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Dumbya! 
That is soooo funny! I don't think I've heard that one yet!
Man, I tell you what... I need to get a towel to clean the piss of the floor. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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I know what wait for them to launch even bigger attacks.  |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Truthfully, though... You're OP makes little sense and has no point.
What you're saying is that we should use all this money used to fight terrorism, and use it to fight Mother Nature, God, Luck, and everyone in Africa?
Umm... I say stick it to those Islamic Jihadists. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
Truthfully, though... You're OP makes little sense and has no point.
What you're saying is that we should use all this money used to fight terrorism, and use it to fight Mother Nature, God, Luck, and everyone in Africa?
Umm... I say stick it to those Islamic Jihadists. |
That is not what I said at all. Reading what I wrote, it is impossible (I used words such as "proportionate") to come to that conclusion, so how did you? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
Dumbya!
That is soooo funny! I don't think I've heard that one yet!
Man, I tell you what... I need to get a towel to clean the piss of the floor. |
I can take credit for thinking of it on my own, but I know others also thought of it on their own because I heard it used before I ever used it publicly. It is a fairly obvious derivation, no?  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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The worst written thread made against Bush in a long time.
The key difference here between the attack on the World Trade Center and Hurricanes Rita and Katrina is that the former was entirely preventable. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
The worst written thread made against Bush in a long time.
The key difference here between the attack on the World Trade Center and Hurricanes Rita and Katrina is that the former was entirely preventable. |
If you read the whole message you would know it is not a thread "against Bush," but is a thread about how our governments and we, the people, conspire to use our resources stupidly. Bush just happens to be the president and, more so than most past presidents/world leaders, is far more directly responsible for some of the tragically stupid thigns going on. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
The worst written thread made against Bush in a long time.
The key difference here between the attack on the World Trade Center and Hurricanes Rita and Katrina is that the former was entirely preventable. |
If you read the whole message you would know it is not a thread "against Bush," but is a thread about how our governments and we, the people, conspire to use our resources stupidly. Bush just happens to be the president and, more so than most past presidents/world leaders, is far more directly responsible for some of the tragically stupid thigns going on. |
Hrrmmm, not another thread against Bush? I guess I was fooled by the heading 'Dumbya' in the title.
Listen, if you don't think that Dr. Khan's promiscious selling of uranium enrichers combined with dozens of Soviet nuclear warheads uncounted fore added to a global wave of violent jihadism could possibly equal a nuclear device detonated in the United States or Europe, then there is really little between us to discuss. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
The worst written thread made against Bush in a long time.
The key difference here between the attack on the World Trade Center and Hurricanes Rita and Katrina is that the former was entirely preventable. |
If you read the whole message you would know it is not a thread "against Bush," but is a thread about how our governments and we, the people, conspire to use our resources stupidly. Bush just happens to be the president and, more so than most past presidents/world leaders, is far more directly responsible for some of the tragically stupid thigns going on. |
Hrrmmm, not another thread against Bush? I guess I was fooled by the heading 'Dumbya' in the title.
Listen, if you don't think that Dr. Khan's promiscious selling of uranium enrichers combined with dozens of Soviet nuclear warheads uncounted fore added to a global wave of violent jihadism could possibly equal a nuclear device detonated in the United States or Europe, then there is really little between us to discuss. |
You see, you have to read ALL of a post:
"Why do leaders and citizens not stop to think:"
then, you have to avoid making massive, massive assumptions:
| Quote: |
| Listen, if you don't think that Dr. Khan's promiscious selling of uranium enrichers combined with... ...then there is really little between us to discuss. |
Making one statement, especially a very general statement, does not automatically eliminate another possibility unless that first statement and the other possibility are, in fact, mutually exclusive. That is not the case here, so you can relax now and rest assured I am not interested in thermonuclear devices getting into the hands of anyone who doesn't have them now, and would certainly prefer they did not exist at all.
You seem to missing the point. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
Listen, if you don't think that Dr. Khan's promiscious selling of uranium enrichers combined with... ...then there is really little between us to discuss.
Making one statement, especially a very general statement, does not automatically eliminate another possibility unless that first statement and the other possibility are, in fact, mutually exclusive. That is not the case here, so you can relax now and rest assured I am not interested in thermonuclear devices getting into the hands of anyone who doesn't have them now, and would certainly prefer they did not exist at all. |
So you don't disagree? Okay, well then we can talk.
Yes, there is a disproportion in the responses and allocation of resources between the War on Terror and certain natural disasters. This has less to do with Bush's name having an intimate connection with the word dumb and terrorism being a bogeyman as it does with neo-con ideology.
I disagree with your terrorism casualty numbers. I can't find the site, but I believe between 9-11 and the July London bombings there were 15k killed and wounded because of terrorist attacks worldwide. Don't ask me to prove this because I won't, but these are the numbers I remember from the time as seeming accurate. If you want to persuade me otherwise I'm willing to listen.
As for the tsunami warning system, it's understandable that there was no political will for that, as it would have had to have been an international co-operation between various states in the region who don't really get along with each other and hardly have the money to spare. Should there be a warning system? If there's any chance something half as violent might come in the next fifty years, I think it's at the very least worth extremely serious consideration.
As for prosecuting terrorism. I don't mind the price-tag (I'd pay the extra taxes but this debt stuff bothers me), but I do mind the tactics. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Yes, there is a disproportion in the responses and allocation of resources between the War on Terror and certain natural disasters. This has less to do with Bush's name having an intimate connection with the word dumb and terrorism being a bogeyman as it does with neo-con ideology. |
Yeeeaaah..... 
| Quote: |
| I disagree with your terrorism casualty numbers. I can't find the site, but I believe between 9-11 and the July London bombings there were 15k killed and wounded because of terrorist attacks worldwide. |
I don't know the number, but the "?" was meant to show that. But no matter what, it's far, far, far lower than any other of the items on the list.
| Quote: |
| As for the tsunami warning system, it's understandable that there was no political will for that, as it would have had to have been an international co-operation between various states in the region who don't really get along with each other and hardly have the money to spare. Should there be a warning system? If there's any chance something half as violent might come in the next fifty years, I think it's at the very least worth extremely serious consideration. |
Again, why do we not consider history? Krakatoa was not all that long ago. Exactly the same effect as the December 26 quake.
| Quote: |
| As for prosecuting terrorism. I don't mind the price-tag (I'd pay the extra taxes but this debt stuff bothers me), but I do mind the tactics. |
I do mind the price tag, particularly because the "price" we have paid (meaning the manner in which Bush is trying to "pay" that particular bill) has only made things worse.
But the greater question is, again, why do we make decisions based on fear, rather than practical reality? |
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