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Do you think there will ever be another civil war in The USA |
Yes, it's possible. |
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41% |
[ 7 ] |
No, never. |
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47% |
[ 8 ] |
Not sure. |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
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Total Votes : 17 |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:14 am Post subject: |
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What forces would have stood with Gore? |
There were none, and that is why nothing happened. At the time, there were reports of the Bushie backers marching around Florida frothing at the mouth. And the Gore supporters doing nothing but calling up another lawyer.
Imagine what might (might) have happened had the Court decided that Gore was the winner. Another 4 years of Clinton II! Things on the street might have been more, shall we say, combative.
[This is an aside: Imagine how liberals might react if the courts begin to impose conservative Christian interpretations of the laws. For example, pregnant girls have no right to attend high school. This was still true in the 60's in many parts of the US. Or that the school day start with the Lord's Prayer. That political candidates must be de facto, if not de jure, active church members to run. These are beside the point.]
The essence of the threat is from the right. The right's contempt for the courts scares me. It seems to me they call into question the whole constitutional structure of the republic. From Lincoln's Second Inaugural:
" Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came". Keep in mind that I am not talking about a war of secession. I am talking about a civil war in which one party tries to seize control of the levers of state, more similar to Caesar and Pompey or Cromwell and Charles II than Lincoln and Davis (or George III and George Washington, for that matter).
One of the elements that is missing so far is the impassioned feeling on both sides. I think it is there on one side, but not both. This speaks to Gopher's question about who would have stood with Gore. During the War Lincoln met Harriet Beecher Stowe and is quoted as saying, "So you are the little lady who caused the big war". Today's liberals are wimpy. Many here on Dave's have complained about this. That is what was wrong with Kerry as a candidate. There is no passion in the anti-Bush people. They aren't for anything, just against the conservatives. That won't produce a civil war. But tomorrow or next week, some little lady is going to write the new Uncle Tom's Cabin that will inspire the liberals to fight for their beliefs. It's possible. (It isn't guaranteed, but it isn't beyond imagining.)
On a related note, has anyone read Stephen Vincet Benet's "John Brown's Body"?
"This we have seen as well, distorted and half-forgotten
In what came before and after, where the blind went leading the blind,
The first swift rising of youth before the symbols were rotten,
The price too much to pay, the payment haughty in kind."
and later...
"...They can hunger, they can thirst,
But they know for what and why."
[If you want to read a GREAT short story, read Ambrose Bierce's "Chickamauga".] |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Location: The deep south...
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Alas...
This is the thread that a southerner was waiting for... Yes, I know it's only because we lost the first one.
While many of my southern bretheren, usually the anti-Janet Jackson's tit crowd, are counting the days that they can expel the heathenous Yankee scum I feel that it would never happen.
However, if it were to happen...
Jonathan Moser
AP-Fayetteville, NC
In what would appear to be a scene out of a cheap 1980's action movie, a barrage of camoflaged pick-up trucks and SUVs loaded with shotgun-wielding Confederates stormed the gates of Fort Bragg today in what has been the most daring assault in the war thus far.
"We been learning to shoot since we wuz youngins!" said one man as he and his bretheren stormed into the 3rd Armory, retrieving weapons, body armor, and ammunition that will easily support them for weeks to come.
Several batallions of US Army troops have already joined the confederation, seeing that many of them were loyal to the south even before they swore to fight off "all enemies, both foreign and domestic."
Many states north of the Mason-Dixon line have claimed neutrality. However, no states south, except for Florida, have excluded themselves from the war. Charlie Jones, of the 1st NC Millitia, had this to say:
"We gon' kill us any Yankee scum that gits in are way. Those Jews, Catholics, Ay-rabs, and all them queers and hippies are gon' stop tellin' us what we can do wit' are state! We dun told y'all that de South gon rise agin!"
------
While I would hate to see it, I would like to watch it on TV... |
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Red
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Should the fundamentalists get their wish and all move to a state that's friendly to their brand of religion, they will attempt to leave the union once they have altered the state's laws to please them.
Then we will have the civil war. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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As a northener, I think its pretty safe to say that most of us from the Blue States would have absolutely no problem whatsoever if the RED States took Bush and created their own country far away from the rest of us.
Am I willing to die for that cause? No. But I'd definetely 100% support it and help back bags out of the White House if they so desired it. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: A second civil war? |
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SuperFly wrote: |
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"deessell
My reasons for this poll are related to supposed "time traveler" John Titor. John came back in time from 2036 into the year 2000. He said (2000) that in 2004/2005 there was a civil war in USA that lasted for 7 years.
I am interested what other posters think about this with particular reference to the current political climate in the USA. |
John Titor was revealed to be a fraud a long time ago bro. Don't be naive! |
Did he need to be revealed? To travel in time one would have to first accelerate to the speed of light, which is an impossible feat.
As for the second civil war...only time will tell. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:50 am Post subject: Re: A second civil war? |
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Gopher wrote: |
deessell wrote: |
I am more interested in civil war and whether anyone thinks that the citizens of USA (or any western country) would be able to instigate a civil war, with changes to gun laws, loss of liberty and freedoms, it would be a harder prospect. |
The gun ownership advocates don't really get the point that handguns, shotguns, and even assault rifles won't do too much against a govt armed with tanks, rockets, jets, tactical nukes, and also armed with comprehensive information databases and infrared and other satellite technology and intelligence means available to its forces...
. |
The Iraqi insurgency doesn't seem to be doing that bad... |
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death from above
Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Location: in your head
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: |
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anyone north of I-10 is a yankee. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:56 am Post subject: ... |
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I think that the key point is that, during the Civil War, politics and regions were united. This is now dispersed. Not completely, but mostly.
Moreover, were such a thing to occur, the military would be able to snuff any large-scale action. Were the military to be split into two sides (which I highly doubt), the result would still be a no-win situation for both sides.
Speak of polarization, but I don't think Americans are even remotely close to indulging in such notions. There's no $ advantage to such actions.
People can leave if they're that disgusted.
While I know it's commonly associated with liberals, I remember working with people during high school who said their parents wanted to move to Canada if Jesse Jackson became president.
On another note, while I understand the financial and other repercussions, I
a) Believe that, if they wanted to, the South should have been allowed to seceded from the Union. I say that to reflect American notions of self-determination.
b) Am torn about whether I would've preferred that the South secede.
But, in fact, rather than think about that, I think I would've preferred the Articles of Confederation over the Constitution's centralization of power.
In other words, I'm strongly Jeffersonian. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
igotthisguitar wrote: |
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This image comes right out of the anti-Clinton conspiracy people (they referred to him as "Billary" and they also spoke of "the People's Republic of California"), the right-wing survivalist gun freaks a la Timothy McVeigh who feared "the Brady Bill" and U.S. participation in the UN as a sign of some kind of ominous occupation of the United States that was yet to come...
As to the possibility (not probability) of a civil war in the U.S.: never say never. Very unlikely at the moment, however.
I am aware of senior officials in the military who are concerned that forcing the military to get involved in the antidrug war and immigration patrols, etc., will politicize the armed forces and open the way for a military coup...I've read articles on this in military journals, written by officers who preferred to say out of these things for these reasons. In any case, if I wanted to see where a breakdown of the constitution might come from, I'd keep my eye on that ball. |
THIS is key ... separation of powers. Check & balances, or not. The Bush clique is pushing to have it extinguished as we speak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
In a related vein, a few years back US soldiers (likely Canadian troops as well) were "surveyed" on whether, if ORDERED, they would ever open fire on American citizens. Thankfully the VAST majority offered a resounding "NO".
This is why the globalist elites have to "quietly" work out the logistics so that when people finally wake up, it'll be too late. National sovereignty will be rendered null & void. Unfortunately, only then it seems will Joe Citizen finally realize hoardes of foreign troops have been covertly stationed throughout North AmeriKa.
Anyone ever see the movie RED DAWN?
http://www.impawards.com/1984/red_dawn_ver3.html
Click the above link for a cool poster ... shot ... |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:26 am Post subject: |
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So are any states thinking of ceding from the Union any time soon? |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Location: Eungam Loop
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Civil War- no. Class War- highly likely. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Anyone ever see the movie RED DAWN? |
Yes, and it was a very poor comedy. I was the only one laughing and that was because it was ludicrous to imagine Cuba and Nicaragua seizing control of the US. Comedy, even absurd comedy, has to have some grounding in reality. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Quote: |
Anyone ever see the movie RED DAWN? |
Yes, and it was a very poor comedy. I was the only one laughing and that was because it was ludicrous to imagine Cuba and Nicaragua seizing control of the US. Comedy, even absurd comedy, has to have some grounding in reality. |
Are you sure it Nicaragua? I thought it was Russia & China.
Anyways the point here is that there are already said to be 1 million PLUS foreign ( most purportedly UN ) troops on U.S. soil. How many are in Canada God only knows. Witnesses have attested to seeing truckloads of armed Mexican soldiers, Chinese, Lithuanian.
Where are all the U.S. troops? Where's the National Guard? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:23 am Post subject: Re: A second civil war? |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Gopher wrote: |
deessell wrote: |
I am more interested in civil war and whether anyone thinks that the citizens of USA (or any western country) would be able to instigate a civil war, with changes to gun laws, loss of liberty and freedoms, it would be a harder prospect. |
The gun ownership advocates don't really get the point that handguns, shotguns, and even assault rifles won't do too much against a govt armed with tanks, rockets, jets, tactical nukes, and also armed with comprehensive information databases and infrared and other satellite technology and intelligence means available to its forces...
. |
The Iraqi insurgency doesn't seem to be doing that bad... |
Sorry.
The Iraqi insurgency is foreign-backed, and they're most likely being backed with intelligence information, urban guerrilla training, and being provided with all kinds of weapons.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
Guerrilla wars and insurgencies rarely succeed. Govts, on the other hand, sometimes fail. And many people confuse the cause and effect relationship here. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:25 am Post subject: |
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igotthisguitar wrote: |
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Quote: |
Anyone ever see the movie RED DAWN? |
Yes, and it was a very poor comedy. I was the only one laughing and that was because it was ludicrous to imagine Cuba and Nicaragua seizing control of the US. Comedy, even absurd comedy, has to have some grounding in reality. |
Are you sure it Nicaragua? I thought it was Russia & China. |
Watch it again. It was Cuba and Nicaragua, backed by the Soviets. The Soviets nuked the Chinese so they were out of it.
And by the way, with all of your interest in conspiracy theories, I would've thought that at least you had heard of the Sino-Soviet split and Nixon's triangular diplomacy as a means to exploit this split... |
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