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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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 Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Another bashing of teachers , how fun. Guys who got a degree in film studies writing a book, read some Chomsky and now completely understands how information and culture move between cultures. HO HUM!!
The internet and good hygiene are also due to Anglo -American imperialism. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Guys who got a degree in film studies writing a book, read some Chomsky and now completely understands how information and culture move between cultures. |
If you check out Phillipson's CV available on his web site, you'll notice that he has a B.A. in Modern Languages, an M.A. in Linguistics and English Language Teaching, and a Dr.Phil. for his thesis (I thought it was supposed to be a dissertation at that level, but I'm not familiar with the Dutch education system) "English Language Teaching and Imperialism". That's a far cry from a degree in film studies. I may disagree with some of his stuff and his outlook, but that does not mean he's an amateur. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Well qualified local teachers and under-qualified foreig |
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| crashlanding wrote: |
"Antagonism between well qualified local teachers and under-qualified foreigners" is one of the "Results of importing young native speakers in China, Japan, Korea" that will be highlighted by an internationally recognized British scholar who has been paid to give a conference talk in Seoul later this year.
I've thankfully left South Korea and will never go back, but an email jumped into my inbox about Robert Phillipson, who has written books about "language imperialism" and who has been invited to speak about English language teaching. Phillipson is a professor at the Copenhagen School of Business and he has worked for decades fighting the tide of native speaker teachers and promoting instead local, non-native speakers teaching English because of their superior confidence.
Phillipson was kind enough to email me the Powerpoint for his presentation. The quotes above are from slide 36. Here are other quotes from that slide:
"Proof of the incompetence of local decision-makers who are responsible for such policies"
"Proof of the opportunism, economic and political of organizations in the UK, Australia, USA, Canada supplying models of an Anglo-American way of life rather than appropriately qualified teachers."
Again, as I've said I've left South Korea (and I wasn't really an EFL teacher per se, so this isn't really an issue for me), but my heart really does go out to all of you guys who are struggling in that filthy, angry place. I wanted all of you to know what's going on.
I'm not well versed in Korea politics, but I've been told Phillipson is being used as a pawn by certain political groups to give international credence to the growing anti-English movement in the upper echelons of Korean society, and his presentation will probably be used to cut budgets to hire native speakers in public schools and encourage Korean universities to abandon English-language instruction.
I imagine the lower middle class of South Korea will suffer the most from this. For them, linguistic talent and the drive to learn English are collectively one of the few socioeconomic equalizers in a deeply unfair and hierarchical society.
I have a copy of his speech and Powerpoint presentation if anyone's interested. Just PM me. |
As far as the writer and language imperialism, I don't see it his way. There are various global languages that are important in the world. You could say it has a lot to do with the power associated with those countries in history. That part is true. He's picking on English but not on Spanish. Spanish is important due to Spanish imperialism. Chinese is important because it's an economic and military power. French is important because of French imperialism and power.
Obviously, English is important to a large extent because England conquered many lands in Asia, Africa, and North America. Furthermore, the United States has been quite a powerful country and promoted English through its culture products, and economic and military power. So many people speak English as a first or second language due to the imperialism of the past, but we cannot change the past. Was not Chinese a language studied in much of the East when China was a superpower in Asia some centuries ago?
In the end, people need to communicate with each other in a global environment and we can't all simply learn all the various languages of the world to engage in transactions. It's not practical, IMHO. |
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crashlanding
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
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| My--I hadn't even thought of that. A brilliant point. Perhaps you would like to email him? [email protected] |
His theory has already been debunked. He is a guilt riddled, liberal, half-wit who seems to think non-English speakers are too weak to stand up for themselves. His theory is patronizing to English learners and ESL teachers and remains unproven. Korea had done very well from opening up to foreign influences but there are still extremists who see anything foreign as a threat. Phillipson is a one-trick pony who these idiots wheel out to further their xenophobic agenda. He wrote his book in 92 yet 20 years later he is still singing the same, out of tune, redundant song.
His research history speaks volumes about his abilities. All he does is regurgitate his cultural imperialism theory as if refining it will suddenly make it true. Compare his work to Dornyei, the motivation master. Dornyei's research and publications have gone far beyond motivation into many different aspects of linguistics, whereas Phillipson keeps trying to flog his dead horse to increasingly extremist and xenophobic admirers.
Here's another question - your attacks on the British Council read like the rants of a bitter ex-employee. Are the claims you used to work for the British Council true? |
I love how you refer to Zoltan, whom I worked with for years. He's a brilliant, compassionate man--and far from an ideologue. I'm glad to hear his work is making an impact. |
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crashlanding
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
| Guys who got a degree in film studies writing a book, read some Chomsky and now completely understands how information and culture move between cultures. |
If you check out Phillipson's CV available on his web site, you'll notice that he has a B.A. in Modern Languages, an M.A. in Linguistics and English Language Teaching, and a Dr.Phil. for his thesis (I thought it was supposed to be a dissertation at that level, but I'm not familiar with the Dutch education system) "English Language Teaching and Imperialism". That's a far cry from a degree in film studies. I may disagree with some of his stuff and his outlook, but that does not mean he's an amateur. |
"dissertation" is American English, "thesis" is British English. They refer to the same thing of similar length. |
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crashlanding
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: |
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One more thing I think everyone should consider: Phillipson is getting paid to come, and probably quite handsomely.
I don't know how much, but when Korea University invited Terry Eagleton to come and give two lectures (he did not write new lectures, but simply rehashed ones he'd given elsewhere), he was paid 15,000,000 won.
They weren't two different lectures--he gave the same lecture twice, once in Seoul and once in the provinces. Not bad for 3 days in Korea. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
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I don't think there's a need for fully qualified teachers to be in the public school foreigner position here. It seems in the vast majority of cases we work with a qualified KET at least some classes every week, which provides a chance to learn how to teach. Given the vast majority are teaching straight from a book most of the time that should probably be enough to effectively teach classes in an English speaking environment
Under qualified teachers in hagwons- supply and demand.
Whether we are worth the money is debatable, but I think there's no doubt we have a positive effect. The students who speak the best English are usually the ones with the most exposure to foreign teachers. The adults that speak the best English (from my own experience) are people who have native English speaking friends (typically foreign teachers) or who have lived abroad for a little while- very often paid for by their parents.
I believe without native English teachers in Korea the standards of practical, conversational English will drop significantly. It seems the majority of Dave's posters would agree, from what I've read here. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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I've had Korean English co-teachers and also taught Korean English teachers.
A lot of them were nice people and all, but all made grammar errors and had a lot of room to improve in terms of their pronunciation.
Further more, when I saw them taught they spent at least 80% of there time speaking in Korean and not
English.
If I wanted to learn Spanish I wouldn't want to do so from someone who didn't have a full command of it. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Unibrow wrote: |
| The spread of English has been a product of Anglo American imperialism, it's hard to dispute that. |
It's such a shame that South Korea embraced that Anglo American imperialism. I imagine it is this imperialism that has played a major role in the famines they have suffered as well as the numerous refugees that are desperate to escape to China for a better life. From what I understand a lot of South Korean refugee women are sold as wives to Chinese men over the internet. At least North Korea was wise enough to reject the evil western influence. Hopefully this kindhearted white man can talk some sense into the indigenous peoples of South Korea. It makes me proud to be a westerner when someone like this offers his insight to a population that can't be trusted to determine it's own fate. His resume and degrees are also very impressive, unlike the filthy native speakers that come here with their worthless bachelor degrees they received from the now debunked American university system. |
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NQ
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
It's such a shame that South Korea embraced that Anglo American imperialism. I imagine it is this imperialism that has played a major role in the famines they have suffered as well as the numerous refugees that are desperate to escape to China for a better life. From what I understand a lot of South Korean refugee women are sold as wives to Chinese men over the internet. At least North Korea was wise enough to reject the evil western influence. Hopefully this kindhearted white man can talk some sense into the indigenous peoples of South Korea. It makes me proud to be a westerner when someone like this offers his insight to a population that can't be trusted to determine it's own fate. His resume and degrees are also very impressive, unlike the filthy native speakers that come here with their worthless bachelor degrees they received from the now debunked American university system. |
Your username is perfect for you |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| crashlanding wrote: |
One more thing I think everyone should consider: Phillipson is getting paid to come, and probably quite handsomely.
I don't know how much, but when Korea University invited Terry Eagleton to come and give two lectures (he did not write new lectures, but simply rehashed ones he'd given elsewhere), he was paid 15,000,000 won.
They weren't two different lectures--he gave the same lecture twice, once in Seoul and once in the provinces. Not bad for 3 days in Korea. |
Hey you must've worked in some type of administrative capacity, or had contacts who did...I'm fascinated and a little curious how you knew how much Eagleton was paid, which by the way, is a helluva nice package for 3 days  |
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crashlanding
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| crashlanding wrote: |
One more thing I think everyone should consider: Phillipson is getting paid to come, and probably quite handsomely.
I don't know how much, but when Korea University invited Terry Eagleton to come and give two lectures (he did not write new lectures, but simply rehashed ones he'd given elsewhere), he was paid 15,000,000 won.
They weren't two different lectures--he gave the same lecture twice, once in Seoul and once in the provinces. Not bad for 3 days in Korea. |
Hey you must've worked in some type of administrative capacity, or had contacts who did...I'm fascinated and a little curious how you knew how much Eagleton was paid, which by the way, is a helluva nice package for 3 days |
I was a tenure-track assistant professor, meaning I was involved in administration--or was supposed to be. Rather difficult when everything is in a language you don't understand and weren't hired to use. |
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crashlanding
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Thought I'd share one of the PMs I got as a result of my original post:
http://i.imgur.com/V4DKt.png |
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augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Your grandeur is not as unique as you may believe! |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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FYI. That message you got may actually be random. Awhile ago a number of people on the board received "basher" messages....the message senders were taken out of commission by moderators. |
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