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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Cause cows taste good. |
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hojucandy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Location: In a better place
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:03 am Post subject: |
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cultboy - "blasphemy" is your invention - i don't believe in it. no-one can hide behind the charge of blasphemy. least of all a fake guru like prabhupad.
the most offensive post on this thread is the OP.
vegetarianism is a good thing. but it does nothing to benefit your mind or your spiritual state. most of the people yu listed as vegetarian are hardly great people! vegetarianism is is just one more thing to add to the burden of spiritial pride that props up your elitist belief system.
yu fundimentalists make me sick.
i'm going to bed. |
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Demonicat
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Location: Suwon
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Well written response RD, now allow me to retort.
Having been to more than a handful of 3rd world countries I can safely say that going vegan isn't going to do it for most of them. The proper mix of amino acids and nutrients required for a vegatrain diet to be sustaining is prohibitive in areas like West Africa or Latin America. To get a proper vegan diet, as you are no doubt aware requires a mix of various plantas and legumes- things which are very hard to come by in desert and jungle areas, the areas that house most of the world's poor. Switching to veganism is hard in ways not dealing with foodstuffs as well. Telling a 3rd world people group to not use leather goods is tantamount to a death sentance. They don't have ready access to plastic and have no way of sidposing it properly. The same goes for any synthetic material, most of which are based off of petroleum byproducts. And there we have the rub. Which is more harmful to the world and causes more suffering, the sarificing of a few million cows, chickens, and goats or the polluting of the earths river and streams, the clear cutting of rain forests (yes this involves cattle too), and the destruction of the atmosphere in search for petroleum in order to make synthetics. Before it gets said, cotton and hemp won't do as substitutes- can you fashion a hemp bicycle wheel?
To touch upon your other note, yes the traditional energy cycle arguement (1 lb of flesh=10 lbs of corn) is true in a perfect world. In the real world, too many influencers stand in the way. In a perfect world we could do well to be vegetarian, but ours is not a perfect world. BTW, I did serve 2 years in Mali, West Africa with the US Peace Corps. I think in my tenure there I helped save many peoples lives from starvation, I helped create a cottage industry which allowed the village to save for a watering pump, and I gave the men of the village a renewable source of protein. My job with the Peace Corps? Raising rabbits for human consumption and teaching the host country nationals how to skin and dress a rabbit hide for commercial purposes. |
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Babayaga
Joined: 28 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I may be wrong, but I think I know why so many great thinkers have been vegetarians. As Tolstoy has said in one of his works, rich food stimulates the sexual drive, which, in my opinion, may distract people from pursuing meaningful activities. Perhaps people who eat plain food, are not irritated either sexually or otherwise (as in, getting rashes or feeling hyper ),and, therefore, can dedicate themeselves to thinking,etc.
From personal experience, I know that when I eat less,and when I haven't eaten for a number of hours and just drank water, I feel an uplifting surge in energy . |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Demonicat wrote: |
Well written response RD, now allow me to retort.
Having been to more than a handful of 3rd world countries I can safely say that going vegan isn't going to do it for most of them. The proper mix of amino acids and nutrients required for a vegatrain diet to be sustaining is prohibitive in areas like West Africa or Latin America. To get a proper vegan diet, as you are no doubt aware requires a mix of various plantas and legumes- things which are very hard to come by in desert and jungle areas, the areas that house most of the world's poor. Switching to veganism is hard in ways not dealing with foodstuffs as well. Telling a 3rd world people group to not use leather goods is tantamount to a death sentance. They don't have ready access to plastic and have no way of sidposing it properly. The same goes for any synthetic material, most of which are based off of petroleum byproducts. And there we have the rub. Which is more harmful to the world and causes more suffering, the sarificing of a few million cows, chickens, and goats or the polluting of the earths river and streams, the clear cutting of rain forests (yes this involves cattle too), and the destruction of the atmosphere in search for petroleum in order to make synthetics. Before it gets said, cotton and hemp won't do as substitutes- can you fashion a hemp bicycle wheel?
To touch upon your other note, yes the traditional energy cycle arguement (1 lb of flesh=10 lbs of corn) is true in a perfect world. In the real world, too many influencers stand in the way. In a perfect world we could do well to be vegetarian, but ours is not a perfect world. BTW, I did serve 2 years in Mali, West Africa with the US Peace Corps. I think in my tenure there I helped save many peoples lives from starvation, I helped create a cottage industry which allowed the village to save for a watering pump, and I gave the men of the village a renewable source of protein. My job with the Peace Corps? Raising rabbits for human consumption and teaching the host country nationals how to skin and dress a rabbit hide for commercial purposes. |
Well, it goes without saying that we have an obligation to assist people in poorer countries, but I disagree that humans ever have the right to use animals as "renewable resources." Also, I don't think getting enough protein from plants is as difficult as you make it sound. I'll look into the other issues you've raised, but I still don't agree with your solutions. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Translation for the word from the original Greek regarding the fish:
{ikh-thoos'}
1) a fish
Root word for ichthyosaurus and all the others.
www.greekbible.com |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: |
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About greatness/superiority/elitism, actually I'm one of the weakest people I know. It's obvious that many people here on these boards are a lot smarter, stronger and better educated than I'll ever be. I think all that shows is that even the most ordinary people are capable of making big changes in their lives if they really try. If enough average, non-great people put forth their best efforts to make more humane choices, eventually the slaughter industries will have to shut down. I don't think the OP was offensive, although Rteacher's conclusions may have been a bit exaggerated. He provided a list of people -- some great, others a lot more like the rest of us -- who made/are making a difference for animals in their daily lives. So what if Jesus turns out to have been a real person who wasn't veg? Does that really mean we can't do any better here and now? |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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I agree lets celebrate over a nice rare rack of lamb. |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:54 am Post subject: |
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yah know I was only into this thread with my normal trollish glee for mayhem. Now I find myself sick as a dog.
Michael Jackson?
Chelesa Clinton?
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JUSTIN FRIGGIN TIMBERLAKE?????? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Rteacher wrote: |
"Beaver," conceding that Jesus helped them catch fish, it still does not state that he ate fish himself. From a spiritual perspective, the first non-vegetarian food that's tolerated to be eaten when necessary - especially among the masses of people - is fish. (... then fowl, then goats...) What is tolerable for common people is different from the moral standard set by spiritually elevated saintly persons like Jesus and (his cousin) John the Baptist and other early Christians (and everyone in the Essene tradition.) |
And just where does it say he WAS a vegetarian? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Rteacher wrote: |
If a human unfortunately wastes this rarely attained form of life completely by making zero spiritual progress and living life more-or-less in animal consciousness, he runs the risk of descending again into lower species... |
Beam me down, Goddy! |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Rteacher wrote: |
If I'm wrong what have I lost - I now prefer eating vegetarian foods. If people who think that there's no bad karma in unnecessarily killing animals are wrong, they'll probably be unhealthy this life and find themselves in a worse situation the next life. (The same gambler's argument applies to belief in God and life after death...) |
Oh, piffle... a low-calorie diet is far more correlated with long-livedness than vegetarianism (I think). I've yet to hear the latest holder of the Oldest Living Person title say, "Just munch them veggies, have a nip every day and keep a positive attitude!"
Well, they do often say the last two. There are TONS and TONS of very healthy, long-lived omnivores.
OK, look. Some of your reasoning is religious, right? OK, Great. Now, eliminate that. What reason do you have now? You see, not everyone in this world is deistic. In any form. But I suppose you think we should go into these healthy and happy aboriginal communities and tell them they can't hunt anymore because you are more enlightened and see it's going to get them into hell/demoted? Word to the wise, I remember in college hearing of an Indian group in Mexico that the wise and powerful whitefolk deemed undernourished, so they fixed their diet. And they all got sick. Then there are the Asian ethnicity-related low incidence illnesses... can't remember which, but heart disease was one, I think... well, relocate those folks to the dear ol' USA and get 'em eatin' like us'n guess whut? They end up getting the same illnesses we do.
Try to always remember, one size does not fit all in life. And that goes for, literally, every aspect of living you can think of. Even if there were a god, he created the universe to be exceedingly diverse. You gonna tell me that was a mistake?? Heck, all over the bible those good religious people are eating all manner of animals.
Now, with regard to the ethics, I think demonicat(?) addressed that just fine. But let me add: we grow enough food to feed the world, the distribution is the problem. Translation: we can have our meat and eat it too. Would the world in general be healthier with less meat? No doubt. But at the same time, the incredible increase in the growth rate of Koreans in the last two decades or so is directly tied to greater access to protein. The world is not simple. It is best, perhaps, not to generalize overmuch. What works here may not work there. (Can you imagine using hemp-based homes in the American South-East?)
Criminy... |
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Bo Peabody
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Chris Rock says,
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If you're one of the few people on this planet lucky enough to get your hands on a piece of T-bone steak.........
.........BITE THE *beep* OUT OF IT!!!!! |
Last edited by Bo Peabody on Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:19 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think Chris Rock is qualified for the "list of great vulgar comedians with practically no sense of real spirituality or good taste"...
(Clearly, there are no great thinkers among the ranks of non-vegetarians who have posted on this thread...)
Last edited by Rteacher on Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Demonicat wrote: |
Honest Question to all veggies: Why are fish below birds who are below cows who are below people? |
I don't really hold to that view, but the first thing that came to mind was something along the lines of this:
In old visions of evolution, man was the pinnacle, cows were slightly less evolved, and both fish and birds were far less evolved- being lower on the tree. |
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