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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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 Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Sure, I'll try to clear that up. Whether its connected or not is debatable but there are news stories about the comeback of polio and how its directly related to Nigerians who didn't want to administer the vaccine because they said the vaccine was an anti fertilty drug and not polio vaccine and this was all was a plot by The West to hurt their fertility.
I'm racist enough to not care about about Muslims in Nigeria. If they are stupid enough to get polio in this fashion, its fine with me. What I'm offended by is that there was no evidence provided about the plot nor was there any apology offered. In fact, according to the Nigerians the conspiracy is in full swing even now.
Stupid behavior like this has global implications. In the Muslim world and certainly in The Mid East, there is a great paranoia and belief in conspiracies. Its well documented and this behavior effects international relations in a very negative way. Its much more difficult to correct than
"Gook and Haji". Haji was Johnny Quest's little buddy. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| scarneck wrote: |
and because the 'Bobster' posted it makes it all true. Whatever.
Get a life. |
Just a hint to you. When you use trite insults in one post, like, "get a life" and then come back in the next post with articles you want people to click on and read, there's a high likelihood that they going to think to themselves, "Why do I want to read anything that jerk posts?" And then, of course, some will want to just so they can refute whatever the point is you're trying to make. |
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scarneck
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the advice. Just tired of the ragging on the US military, that's all. I'll edit the post because I respect many of the posts you author. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
Desensitization of military personel does have its downside I see.  for the troops. There was an old practice called degunking which was used on troops returning from Vietnam, it seems that the US will have to have a good program set up to deal with these returning troops. |
I think I mentioned in the OP that the article disturbed me, and I did not then and do not now assert that everything said in it was true - I made it clear that it was an OP-ED piece, not a straight news story.
But Summer Wine hit on just reason I was disturbed - the systematic "desensitization" that goes on in the military that when examined can only be seen as institutionalized bigotry - and the fact that I can see some reasons behind it does not make it any the less disturbing ...
red dog :
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| You have to wonder if the military made these people violent, or if they joined in the first place because of pre-existing violent tendencies. |
I was also a little disturbed by this. It's a very ugly distortion and a very large insult to the motivations of people who choose to join the ranks of soldiers for the very highest and noblest of reasons. In this case, it is inaccurate as well, since the article makes quite clear that Mr Delgado joined up just after 9/11 with the hope of protecting his country, which had just recently been attacked in a very spectacular manner.
The military makes people violent. It is the job of a soldier to be violent, so if they did not do this they would derelict in the needs of their vocation, and also very derelict to the safety of the men and women they train for the job. That ought to seem clear enough to anyone - what is not clear, to me, at least, is why it necessitates training to hate people because they are different from we are ...
scarneck
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| and because the 'Bobster' posted it makes it all true. |
No, because The Bobster posted it makes it something that The Bobster thinks is worth talking about.
I've read the articles you posted and I understand the point you wanted to make with them - you might like to take some trouble to read posts I've made in the past that indicate I have the highest respect and admiration for Americans who voluntarily join the armed services for the sincerest of reasons. You might also be interested to notice that the criticisms I voice about the military as an institution are pretty identical to those I hear from enlisted men and women of my acquaintance.
People are not required to run for office in order to criticize Congress or the pResident - must I be required to put on a uniform before voicing my concerns about the Army?
jajdude
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| It points out the importance of words, and using derogatory slang words to refer to other people reflects an attitude that they are seen as lesser than oneself. When you call someone a "gook" or whatever, that term takes away the other's humanity. Then since the other is somehow less human, it becomes 'OK' to treat him badly, or use unnecessary violence. |
I get a lot of flack for pointing out when people make racist comments on these forums. Glad someone understands why.
The Lemon
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| Mr. Delgado and the author are obviously Saddam-lovers. |
Now that he's given up moderating he's allowed to troll? Shame on you, Lemon ...
Just kidding. 
Last edited by The Bobster on Fri May 06, 2005 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| scarneck wrote: |
| Thanks for the advice. Just tired of the ragging on the US military, that's all. I'll edit the post because I respect many of the posts you author. |
I don't have much of a history of ragging on the troops myself even if they have sharply differing views of American foreign policy than I do and even if they do some very abominable things. Like I think Teufelswacht once said, talking about war crimes in a war zone is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolus 500.
Though many of the things that the troops in any war and in any occupation do disgust me, I see the responsibility as belonging at the top to set policy and encourage appropriate attitudes and behavior. And that's where I place the blame too. Were the Abu Ghraib miscreants encouraged or discouraged to engage in that behavior?
What gets me the most is when people keep using absurd, self-deceiving terms like "civilized" to refer to the west because of a refusal to see one's own egregious faults and actions, but a great enthusiasm for seeing the very real faults of others.
Like the other day on a post contrasting us to Muslims when some poorly educated person said that white southerners may not like black southerners but you don't see them being violent to them. If I weren't too busy, I would have done some googling on the long and ugly history of violence in the South towards African-Americans including the long history of lynching where the "civilized" whites often happily posed the smiling family for a photograph beside the hanging black corpse.
Civilized, my a-s-s.
Last edited by R. S. Refugee on Tue May 03, 2005 2:02 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| scarneck wrote: |
| and because the 'Bobster' posted it makes it all true. |
As you know, the bobster did not post it, but just posted an article for discussion, and it was an interesting article.
I thought mainly of how people can easily derogate other races. I do it too at times. And make them seem like a bunch of jerks. It's nonsense, a silly defensive act. I'd like to stick millions in an easy group, but it aint right. Every person on this planet has a life. I get frustrasted by my feelings in Korea. But I know many Koreans are wonderful people. I just feel outside, lonely, and isolated here a lot. The society may seem like a jerk. many individuals are great though.
Too bad we throw terms around so loosely. "Raghead, towelhead, n-igger, gook, white devil...."
Just read a little of MAlcolm X's autobiography. Full of it. But I'd say he was justified in his anger. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| This is a highly emotional piece and I find it somewhat irresponsible and I see them often. Americans = yahoos = red neck soldiers = America. Its pretty simple. I can see why people like the author lay into the US opposed to some place like Nigeria. You won't get anywhere trying to change Nigerians so the easy way gets taken. |
While one can't control the behavior of American and Canadian tourists, American soldiers are part of a command structure, the product of the finest military training in the world. Outside of the parent/child relationship, no single organization on earth has more control over a human life than the military. They are representatives of America. They wear the flag. They are collecting pay from Uncle Sam.
If they are reduced to homoerotic torture, routine acts of indignity to human corpses, summary executions, and wanton killing within months, what's that say exactly about the moral fiber of their nation? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Too bad we throw terms around so loosely. "Raghead, towelhead, n-igger, gook, white devil...."
Maybe, its in part to our need to desensitize ourselves to the realness of the other, so that we may feel anger or disagreement to thier ideas, opinions. It could be a socially learnt or maybe even a biologically learnt trait from the past to help defend what is considered normal by ourselves. In the past it may have been thereto justify violence, whereas now, a number of actions are taken through the written and spoken word and are attacks against the other or others ideas. So maybe we use these terms to supress the ideas relevance or realness of others feelings, so that we can make these arguments.
Just a hypothosis, refute at will. Just try and do it logically. |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ain't war hell?
A Korean guy once said:
Big VC make little VC
Little VC make big VC
Kill ALL VC, we go home. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFly wrote: |
Ain't war hell?
A Korean guy once said:
Big VC make little VC
Little VC make big VC
Kill ALL VC, we go home. |
And your point is . . .? |
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turtlepi1
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| SuperFly wrote: |
Ain't war hell?
A Korean guy once said:
Big VC make little VC
Little VC make big VC
Kill ALL VC, we go home. |
And your point is . . .? |
Maybe I misunderstood but I thought it was quite self-evident.
"War is hell and if it takes killing men, women and children to end it, so be it so we can get out of this hell and go home."
Of course it doesn't speak of the "humanity" within yourself you lose in doing so. But perhaps war and humanity are mutually exclusive concepts at best.
An aside:
Right up until the moment planes hit the buildings, police officiers and departments were being fired/repremanded for racial profiling. Now it is a practice condoned and taught by the federal government. Funny how people bury their hate when it isn't socially acceptable, yet are willing to whip it out as soon as circumstances allow. And we wonder why minorities look at the "white devil" with distrust.
Did someone say towel-heads? |
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SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Maybe I misunderstood but I thought it was quite self-evident.
"War is hell and if it takes killing men, women and children to end it, so be it so we can get out of this hell and go home." |
Damn straight. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| turtlepi1 wrote: |
| Right up until the moment planes hit the buildings, police officiers and departments were being fired/repremanded for racial profiling. Now it is a practice condoned and taught by the federal government. Funny how people bury their hate when it isn't socially acceptable, yet are willing to whip it out as soon as circumstances allow. |
It's not necessarily hate to understand that someone who appears to have Middle Eastern ancestory may be more likely to carry out a terrorist attack on an airline. |
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Konundrum
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 4:23 am Post subject: |
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OK, these are terrific and moving articles...but what do they have to do with the OP? Each revolve around individual experiences and each experience is different. There are always 3 sides to every story...your side, my side, and the truth. I have army friends who've been to Iraq, and it sounded a lot like the OP...but not all the time. I also have friends in the Air Force who've been...and it sounded NOTHING like the OP.
The Bobster's article is probably true to a T...but taken out of context, the things the writer experienced seem all the more vile.
However, your articles are more about how troops are supported by the public. Heck, I support the troops 100%...but they shouldn't still have to be where they are.
I supported the war..but only because it brought an end to the sanctions placed on Iraq ( by Clinton btw) that were killing more Iraqis than a war ever could...but it's taking too long. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFly wrote: |
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Maybe I misunderstood but I thought it was quite self-evident.
"War is hell and if it takes killing men, women and children to end it, so be it so we can get out of this hell and go home." |
Damn straight. |
I'm a little slow, so could you please tell me if I'm understanding you right? Does your statement above mean then that you are in favor of killing any men, women, and children even if they are non-combatants as long as they are perceived by you to be "the enemy"?
I'm guessing that if that's so, you don't really go in for international law, Geneva Conventions, or any of that namby-pamby bleeding heart liberal stuff, right? Kill'em all and let God sort it out?
Please accept my apologies if I misunderstood. |
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