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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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 Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:50 am Post subject: |
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@ JohnML
Nope. I'm as happy as can be.
I can guarantee you I bring in more than 20,000 hr.
How do you know that others are more experienced than me? I'm approaching 60 years old and have been teaching English and foreign languages since I graduated university. I have teacher certification. I have taught in several different countries. I have a private language school in Korea. My wife has been teaching English in Korea since she graduated university with a degree in English. We also have another small business in Korea so I do understand how business works here outside of the education industry also. I know a bit about Korea having a Korea wife and Korean relatives.
I was teaching when you were leaving yellow stains in a diaper. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Do you hite foreign teachers?
At anyrate you seem highly unqualified to evaluate working conditions at korean universities. Duel income no kids. Bar is set very low. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
Do you hite foreign teachers?
At anyrate you seem highly unqualified to evaluate working conditions at korean universities. Duel income no kids. Bar is set very low. |
I have experience working at a Korean university. How would I be any less qualified to evaluate working at Korean universities than you? |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
Do you hite foreign teachers?
At anyrate you seem highly unqualified to evaluate working conditions at korean universities. Duel income no kids. Bar is set very low. |
I have experience working at a Korean university. How would I be any less qualified to evaluate working at Korean universities than you? |
What worked or sort of worked in the past may not work as well now or work at all. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
Do you hite foreign teachers?
At anyrate you seem highly unqualified to evaluate working conditions at korean universities. Duel income no kids. Bar is set very low. |
I have experience working at a Korean university. How would I be any less qualified to evaluate working at Korean universities than you? |
What worked or sort of worked in the past may not work as well now or work at all. |
On the other hand, what worked or sort of worked in the past may work as well or work better.
If someone likes a job that pays 3 million per month and has 12 weeks of vacation per year, even if they spend an extra 10 hours working outside of the classroom per week, why does that make it a bad job? Most people are going to know that teaching requires some time outside of the classroom. A lot of people are happy with the exact jobs you are preaching against. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
Do you hite foreign teachers?
At anyrate you seem highly unqualified to evaluate working conditions at korean universities. Duel income no kids. Bar is set very low. |
I have experience working at a Korean university. How would I be any less qualified to evaluate working at Korean universities than you? |
What worked or sort of worked in the past may not work as well now or work at all. |
On the other hand, what worked or sort of worked in the past may work as well or work better.
If someone likes a job that pays 3 million per month and has 12 weeks of vacation per year, even if they spend an extra 10 hours working outside of the classroom per week, why does that make it a bad job? Most people are going to know that teaching requires some time outside of the classroom. A lot of people are happy with the exact jobs you are preaching against. |
Now we are getting somwhere:
many would say university jobs have gone down the drain.
At any rate the extra work is far far more than you say.
& extra jobs are not allowed by universities
The basic salary is low and they wont let you make up for it by working extra. They think they own you. |
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frankhenry
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
| tophatcat wrote: |
| GENO123 wrote: |
Do you hite foreign teachers?
At anyrate you seem highly unqualified to evaluate working conditions at korean universities. Duel income no kids. Bar is set very low. |
I have experience working at a Korean university. How would I be any less qualified to evaluate working at Korean universities than you? |
What worked or sort of worked in the past may not work as well now or work at all. |
On the other hand, what worked or sort of worked in the past may work as well or work better.
If someone likes a job that pays 3 million per month and has 12 weeks of vacation per year, even if they spend an extra 10 hours working outside of the classroom per week, why does that make it a bad job? Most people are going to know that teaching requires some time outside of the classroom. A lot of people are happy with the exact jobs you are preaching against. |
Now we are getting somwhere:
many would say university jobs have gone down the drain.
At any rate the extra work is far far more than you say.
& extra jobs are not allowed by universities
The basic salary is low and they wont let you make up for it by working extra. They think they own you. |
mostly nonsense |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:04 am Post subject: |
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frankhenry wrote :
Frankhenry is a pro university propagandist.
see below:
Sad to say the following are not exceptional cases rather they are the norm.
Hong IK
| Quote: |
| don't forget our friends at Hongik Univ who are docking teachers 80k/class hour/week when you lose classes to drop you below 15 hours/week. Of course you make it up the following semester as OT but your are only paid 28k/hour for that and can only make up 6 hours/semester |
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| Quote: |
My uni job used to be one of the best around until they upped the hours to 15 and changed the contract so we lose 720,000W a month if a class gets cancelled (which happens to about 25% of teachers every semester). I think you know which uni I'm talking about.
I got my MA TESOL in the UK back in 2007 and got it primarily to get my current job, which I started in 2009. I was lucky to get in at the first time of applying a year or two before (it seemed) every other foreign teacher in Korea (and their dogs) had an MA TESOL.
Despite the fact that I'll have 6 years of uni teaching experience (with good evaluations and 'best teacher' awards) and a CELTA at the end of my current contract, I've told my wife not to hold her breath for me to get another uni job if I'm not renewed. In fact I'm almost assuming I'll be opening a study room when the non-renewal comes (if I don't jump before, which I'm seriously considering at the moment -many colleagues have already bailed from this supposedly 'highly-prized' position).
Although of course the vacation is still great, would I study for an MA TESOL now in order to try to get a Korean uni job? You'd have to be nuts. |
SungKuenGwan
| Quote: |
| oh, if you were directing that grading comment at me, obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of clas...for example at sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is simiar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just saying'! |
True or not?
Seoul National
| Quote: |
| SNU USED TO BE the place to work. People were making great salaries (well above 4.0) for 12 contact hours (NO WRITING CLASSES before someone chimes in on the TRUE number of hours required), with housing free or supplemented (can't remember) and annual pay increases. THEN they cut wages, put in term limits, offered no pay increases and whatever else they did to drive out every single experienced teacher there. |
I got more if you need it .
This is what goes on at big famous Universities :
"At the top 40-50 universities" You can more or less sum it up this way : (e.g., actual working hours always being longer, sudden firings being common, salaries being low, no respect given to foreign faculty, etc.
REAL UIVERSITY CONDITIONS WITHOUT THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=233809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
@Frankhenry
I think you want me to lay off the big famous schools. Well not going to happen.
Who is FrankHenry?
FrankHenry is an apologist and an dishonest individual.
See below:
FrankHenry said :
| Quote: |
| There haven't been any attempts to stuff my F visa. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3001124&highlight=#3001124
But his real answer was :
| Quote: |
Severance, no.
I have never asked about working extra outside of the university |
Not exactly an honest answer. Why would FrankHenry answer this way if he wasn't out to apologize for Korean universities?
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=235260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195
Frankhenry wrote: :
| Quote: |
| under qualified, lousy teacher = bitter |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3000228&highlight=#3000228
That sums him up right there .
Now there is everything there is to know about FrankHenry. Everything. he is an apologist and a suck up of the worst sort. His posts prove it..
Remember according to Frankhenry teachers who speak ill of their schools are under qualified and incompetent. Nuff said. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:43 am Post subject: |
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]Typical Korean Mcversity offering at a high ranking school.
| Quote: |
Full-time Faculty, XXXXXX University, Seoul, Korea
Seoul, South Korea
Job Description
EFL Professors Wanted
XXXXXXXX University at Seoul, Korea is seeking several qualified EFL professors (Non-tenure track) for the term of March 1, 2014- February 31, 2016
Qualifications
1. MA and/or above in TESOL, ESL/EFL Education, English Language, Linguistics, Primary or Secondary Education, Intercultural Communication and /or related fields.
2. Applicants should satisfy the specified qualification criteria stated in the Employment Regulations for Private Schools Law.
3. Bilingual teachers are welcome to apply. Please note that they will be requested to assist with additional translation / interpretation work alongside teaching.
Salary and Benefits
1. Annual starting salary will be approximately 38,500,000won[/b(based on qualifications. (may vary depending on previous experience)
2. The contract is viable for 2 years and renewable for another contract term on good standing.
3. Entitled to 8 weeks (4 weeks in summer and 4 weeks in winter) of paid vacation per year
4. Private school pension and medical insurance
5. Basic furnished accommodation supplied by the Institute of XXXXXX with minimum rental fees
Responsibilities
1. 12 hours per week teaching load with overtime pay for additional hours (30,000 won per hour)
2. Teach non-credit programs and special language courses at the Institute of XXXXXX
3. 3 office hours per week
4. Participation in all school activities (faculty meetings, conferences, seminars, opening ceremonies and graduation, etc.)
How to Apply
1. Apply by email until December 6th (Friday),
Required Documents
Applicants successfully passing the first round of document review should submit the followings for further interview:
1. Cover letter
2. Curriculum vitae with current contact information and official statements of current employment and experience
3. One copy each of undergraduate and graduate diplomas
4. One copy of each undergraduate and graduate transcript sealed
5. One copy of passport
6. A list of three references, one of which must be from your current employer
with contact numbers (must be signed, dated, and properly sealed.)
7. Criminal record check
8. Medical check-up record
9. Three recent passport size photos
All documentation should be received by December 13th (Fri) at the latest (Submission to different departments on campus is NOT possible).
Standards and Procedures
a. First Step: Determining qualifications of applicants and the field of study
b. Second Step: Presentation and Interview for the applicants who are selected after the first step (TBA later) conducted by
Inquiries should be directed to:
EFL Coordinator
Seoul, Korea
Location : Seoul, South Korea
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They say they pay 38.5 M but you have to pay pension and housing . In the end your take home is 2.5 M
ONE CAN NOT SUPPORT a family or pay back loans on such a salary. And the school about is one of the better paying schools. ( It is also a difficult place to work. and a place where you will get in trouble if you get caught doing privates. ) Overtime may or may not be available.
Take home is about 2.5 after using hogwon standard for measuring . Remember total work is far far more than just what is known as " contact hours"
Verdict:
NOT A GOOD JOB.
So there you go. |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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I work at a university. I have no complaints. I'm on a 12 hour schedule and put in around 5-6 hours outside of class each week. I have enough vacation time that I can travel and rest up a bit.
I have a close friendship with 2 other foreign teachers at the university. Their story is similar to mine. I haven't noticed any of the other foreign teachers complaining so I'm guessing they are reasonably happy.
There probably are a handful of disgruntle teachers out there but I believe most university teachers are somewhere between content and happy with their jobs.
*note
There is probably at least one person who has it in for the system. I'm sure you will eventually see his ranting and crying. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I was wondering when you were going to show up. Goat , Frankhenry Jackson7 CandyBar , TopHatCat and Curly Howard are more threatened by what I say than they are willing to admit. . By the way I guess that Goat FrankHenry and CurlyHoward are friends outside this board.
Before we start For the record this Goat's idea of good money;
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2999510&highlight=#2999510
Goat wrote:
| Quote: |
2,600,000 plus 400,000 for housing. I already had my own housing. I was offered 2,700,000 for a second contract. This was at a smaller university. The best thing was having some time to travel abroad.
No severance. |
Wow. 2600 US dollars a month . Regular Warren Buffett here.
Goat Wrote:
| Quote: |
here probably are a handful of disgruntle teachers out there but I believe most university teachers are somewhere between content and happy with their jobs. |
Typical apologist stuff anyone who speaks ill of their schools is a "disgruntled teacher"
Goat Wrote:
| Quote: |
*note
There is probably at least one person who has it in for the system. I'm sure you will eventually see his ranting and crying.
|
Notice no answer for the following ;
Sad to say the following are not exceptional cases rather they are the norm.
Hong IK
| Quote: |
| don't forget our friends at Hongik Univ who are docking teachers 80k/class hour/week when you lose classes to drop you below 15 hours/week. Of course you make it up the following semester as OT but your are only paid 28k/hour for that and can only make up 6 hours/semester |
.
| Quote: |
My uni job used to be one of the best around until they upped the hours to 15 and changed the contract so we lose 720,000W a month if a class gets cancelled (which happens to about 25% of teachers every semester). I think you know which uni I'm talking about.
I got my MA TESOL in the UK back in 2007 and got it primarily to get my current job, which I started in 2009. I was lucky to get in at the first time of applying a year or two before (it seemed) every other foreign teacher in Korea (and their dogs) had an MA TESOL.
Despite the fact that I'll have 6 years of uni teaching experience (with good evaluations and 'best teacher' awards) and a CELTA at the end of my current contract, I've told my wife not to hold her breath for me to get another uni job if I'm not renewed. In fact I'm almost assuming I'll be opening a study room when the non-renewal comes (if I don't jump before, which I'm seriously considering at the moment -many colleagues have already bailed from this supposedly 'highly-prized' position).
Although of course the vacation is still great, would I study for an MA TESOL now in order to try to get a Korean uni job? You'd have to be nuts. |
SungKuenGwan
| Quote: |
| oh, if you were directing that grading comment at me, obviously there's a huge amount of difference in the TYPE of grading one is responsible for and time spent outside of clas...for example at sunggyunwan where they make you teach entire semester of writing classes and then another semester of "presentation" classes (I'm pretty sure SNU is simiar)...there would obviously be significantly more grading time involved (essays) then just teaching some conversation 101class with interchange or whatever..as someone who claims to have taught esl before that should have been blatantly obvious..just saying'! |
True or not?
Seoul National
| Quote: |
]SNU USED TO BE the place to work. People were making great salaries (well above 4.0) for 12 contact hours (NO WRITING CLASSES before someone chimes in on the TRUE number of hours required), with housing free or supplemented (can't remember) and annual pay increases. THEN they cut wages, put in term limits, offered no pay increases and whatever else they did to drive out every single experienced teacher there
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But they are just "disgruntled teachers"
You just want to stop this discussion - not going to happen
Shall we start?
Goat is the guy who said who said while excusing that Universities try to stuff F visas you can make enough during vacations so you can save the salary you make the rest of the year. I am stil waiting to see how that works.You can't make this stuff up. See below:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2999577&highlight=#2999577
Goat Wrote:
| Quote: |
Congratulations!
I agree. Most of the good university teachers can live on the money they make during the winter and summer breaks while saving their regular salary; that is, if they so choose. 5~10 million extra yearly isn't a problem for the GOOD teachers. This more than covers what doing outside privates would earn. Plus, they don't have to do the run around. |
Also Goat thinks that Universites have a right to stuff F visas. (stop them from doing extra work ) That in itself makes him an apologist.
Moreover, Goat makes 3.1 m a month and says anyone who needs more is guilty of not saving their money. You cant make this stuff up.Goat said the following in response to "one can not support a family or pay back loans on a university salary and thus the need to do extra work"
See below:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=3000235&highlight=#3000235
Goat wrote:
| Quote: |
Expenses are your responsibility, not the universities' responsibility. If you have accumulated too much debt and too much financial responsibility, you are poor at money management. You can't blame the universities for your poor decisions and expect them to fix your mistakes.
Yeah. My colleagues and I are probably good at money management. Thus, we have minimal expenses. We probably approach our careers and teaching the same way. We plan, prepare, and fulfill.
Read the employment contracts. If you like the conditions, take it. If you don't like the conditions, don't take it. |
What a classy guy.
Is there any doubt that Goat is an apologist? Again he has no problem with the fact that Universites try to stuff Visas.
Goat wrote :
| Quote: |
| You don't have what it takes to play in the Big Game |
There is no game because at korean universities you are not paid well and by and large you are not treated well either. Korean University jobs? Most of the time they are just an evil trick. One can not support a family on a university salary. In the real world in that case one takes a second job in order to make up the difference but the world of Korean McVersities one can be fired for doing such . At the McVersities they think they own you.
You make 3M won = 2600 US dollars a month wow what a winner.. HA
One thing you did right was choose your name cause you have all the sense that god gave a goat. You posts say all there is no know about you . You are not capable or powerful. You never have been and you never will be.
Your posts show that you are not clever and that you are proably not much of a teacher. But again I bet you are the type to spy on their coworkers for a few extra benefits from the boss.
Your posts explain who you are and what you are about . I could never make up what you yourself said. Goat is an apologist through and though |
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swashbuckler
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| PRagic wrote: |
I recently spent the weekend camping with a guy who works for a top university in Seoul. He'll be maxing out his salary cap at 70 million a year. A friend of his in the department makes 65 million a year. So whoever called BS on another thread about the possibility of making 5 million a month on a 12 hour a week sched with fully paid summer and winter breaks, there you go. I didn't bother asking how many other people are in that salary ballpark, but odds are there are at least a few more in that neighborhood.
Granted, these people have experience and all the right degrees and certs. But, hey, if you're going to do ESL for a living, might as well get qualified. |
I said that and have no idea about your "camping friends" but provided you are ONLY referring to NON-tenure track TESOL instructors on one year contracts in Korea then this part:
| Quote: |
| making 5 million a month on a 12 hour a week sched with fully paid summer and winter breaks |
..is still horse shit (not bs). |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
@ JohnML
Nope. I'm as happy as can be.
I can guarantee you I bring in more than 20,000 hr.
How do you know that others are more experienced than me? I'm approaching 60 years old and have been teaching English and foreign languages since I graduated university. I have teacher certification. I have taught in several different countries. I have a private language school in Korea. My wife has been teaching English in Korea since she graduated university with a degree in English. We also have another small business in Korea so I do understand how business works here outside of the education industry also. I know a bit about Korea having a Korea wife and Korean relatives.
I was teaching when you were leaving yellow stains in a diaper. |
I'm not arguing your happiness, that's subjective anyway so I'd be a fool to do so. I would be surprised if you didn't bring in more than 20,000/h, I'm merely mentioning that that level exists and it's a lot more common than 60,000/h. As for your certifications, I apologize I made a wrong assumption. I'm pretty critical of non licensed teachers in general but you don't fit that bill, the other guy teflcap does though.
| swashbuckler wrote: |
| PRagic wrote: |
I recently spent the weekend camping with a guy who works for a top university in Seoul. He'll be maxing out his salary cap at 70 million a year. A friend of his in the department makes 65 million a year. So whoever called BS on another thread about the possibility of making 5 million a month on a 12 hour a week sched with fully paid summer and winter breaks, there you go. I didn't bother asking how many other people are in that salary ballpark, but odds are there are at least a few more in that neighborhood.
Granted, these people have experience and all the right degrees and certs. But, hey, if you're going to do ESL for a living, might as well get qualified. |
I said that and have no idea about your "camping friends" but provided you are ONLY referring to NON-tenure track TESOL instructors on one year contracts in Korea then this part:
| Quote: |
| making 5 million a month on a 12 hour a week sched with fully paid summer and winter breaks |
..is still horse shit (not bs). |
Well whilst I can't categorically say that no teacher makes 5 million non tenured (there is very likely to be at least one in Korea), it's double the rate of an average very experienced university ESL tutor. What I do feel comfortable saying is that 99/100 times someone who quotes this is likely to be talking "horse shit".
Also when comparing it to other adventures, that 12 hours is actually 25 ish hours of work (I know  ), which is still pretty good if you like the lifestyle. I actually know tenures on this rate... but they work way more than 25 hours... I see your point though it's hard not to call BS when everything else points towards it being so. If we are going into personal stories I've had people claim they made 4 million a month who lived like peasants and would never have anything to show for it. It's blatantly obvious they are lying.
At the end of the day if they are only lying to themselves it's not a big deal, it is a big deal when people make bad judgements based off of this garbage they hear from others. |
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jackson7
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Location: Kim Jong Il's Future Fireball
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| GENO is the Donald Trump of Dave's. Both are idiots, and both unfortunately seem to believe the drivel that comes spewing out of their mouths (or in GENO's case, onto the screen). Entertaining at times, but mostly just sad and pathetic. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Jackson 7 is the king of pro mcversity infomercials on DaVes. I am no Donald Trump supporter but since since He is way more successful than you maybe you ought not be so quick to call to call him an " idiot" You have many flaws but perhaps the worst of them is your arrogance
At any rate you are nothing propagandist who was out to stop any criticism of universities long before i mentioned the topic.
How much did your online degree cost you ?
you are welcome to challenge my accounting. That you dont shows that you are unable. Beware of korean mcversity jobs. They are an evil trick & most of them ought to be blacklisted. |
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