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JFK Assassination
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regicide wrote:
What about Oswald’s 201 file? That is something to look at:

According to the CIA’s Clandestine Services Handbook, a 201 file was opened on “subjects of extensive reporting and CI (counterintelligence) investigation, prospective agents and sources, and members of groups and organizations of continuing interest.”

When interviewed by the HSCA Richard Helms admitted that anyone who defected to the Soviet Union had a 201 file opened on them. At the request of the HSCA the CIA carried out a search for Oswald’s 201 file. Its discovery raised some serious questions.

Oswald’s 201 file had been created in December 1960 by Ann Egerter. She controlled that file for the next three years. In other words, nothing could go in or out of this file without her permission.

When the HSCA asked Ann Egerter for an interview she refused. When Dan Hardaway of the HSCA threatened to subpoena her, she changed her mind. However, the verbatim record of her testimony is still classified.

There are many unanswered questions about Oswald’s 201 file. The first concerns the date it was opened. Why did it take over a year for the CIA to open his file? He defected in October 1959. Egerter was unable to answer this question. She said she created the file when she saw Oswald’s name on a list of defectors to the Soviet Union in December 1960. Richard Helms was also unable to answer this question. He told the HSCA: “I can’t imagine why it would have taken an entire year. I am amazed.”

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8038

Oswald also had links to the FBI and Customs. Got anything on those?
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting demonstration
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loose_ends



Joined: 23 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Very interesting demonstration


That guy is amazing. Did you see him reload? That was nutty.

What does this have to do with JFK?
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Very interesting demonstration

I'd like to see what he could do with a 1945 bolt-action Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.
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loose_ends



Joined: 23 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
By the way, he was firing and reloading a revolver. The point is this: we can do a lot with weapons if we are trained and if we practice.


That is right.

Check this one out guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N6G8XlyCMM

Perhaps Oswald had a similar idea with his "magic" bullet. Point is, people can learn to do things with enough practice.
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loose_ends



Joined: 23 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Reg.

What would be the best JFK doc in your opinion?
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
Gopher wrote:
Very interesting demonstration

I'd like to see what he could do with a 1945 bolt-action Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.

Of course, an even better trick would be to get the ammunition for it which hadn't even been manufactured since 1945.
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loose_ends



Joined: 23 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey what happened to Gophers most recent post?

It seemed a bit out of character, perhaps this is for the best... Laughing
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Part 1: John McAdams and Judyth Vary Baker Reply with quote

Experienced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 85
Joined: 27-March 04
Member No.: 606



Part 1: John McAdams and Judyth Vary Baker

This posting is a correction of the John McAdams’ web page on Judyth Vary Baker (September, 2004).

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm

If Judyth Vary Baker is telling the truth, it will change the way we think about the Kennedy assassination. (John McAdams)

He immediately places doubt in the mind of the reader. Nice start.

Judyth offers an account that integrates much that has been written about the assassination into a more or less coherent whole and puts myriad facts about the assassination in an entirely new light. She has recently been in the Netherlands, getting some attention in the Dutch media, and has opened a museum dedicated to telling her story. (John McAdams)

The subtle little word twists begin. Here, McAdams calls my account "a more or less coherent whole..." which again places the account into a state of doubt.

The Museum was called the Lee Harvey Oswald Museum and was dedicated to telling Lee Harvey Oswald´s story, as every visitor quickly realized. Yes, there was a section on me, and a museum case full of materials that Lee and I had used and owned together. But 75% of the museum space was dedicated to Lee Harvey Oswald.

She was the subject of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" which aired in November, 2003 on the History Channel. (John McAdams)

Nigel Turner produced a nine-segment series over a period of years called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy." TMWKK segments have been aired on The History Channel for over a decade. Segment Eight, newly released on the 40th anniversary of the assassination in November, 2003, focused on the love affair between me and Lee Harvey Oswald, with much new information released about Lee Oswald´s activities between April, 1963 and his murder on November 24, 1963. The documentary was suppressed soon after outcries from friends of the Lyndon B. Johnson family protested the contents of Segment Nine, "The Guilty Men." All three new TMWKK segments were pulled from the expected nine/year airing schedule. The History Channel announced that it sold the rights to unknown parties. A panel said Segment Nine was a disgrace to the memory of LBJ. Many believed the panel´s many errors reflected its hasty kangaroo court mentality. The censorship was unprecedented in US documentary film history. Thousand of copies of these films were destroyed and many thousands who tried to purchase the three segments got their money back. Since the History Channel even shows documentaries about Bigfoot, Nessie, and UFO´s, one wonders why "The Love Affair" was also included, since it was never mentioned by the panel. The History Channel made a public apology to the LBJ family for the contents of "The Guilty Men." In fact, there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence as well as witnesses who testified that LBJ knew Kennedy was going to die in Dallas. Many people have decided that the film actually hit too close to home.

Her supporters have promised a book. (John McAdams)

Another subtle twist. I, myself, have written two books. The first attempt to publish was a failure due to the mishandling of the literary agent and possibly due to threats of lawsuits which Mr. David Lifton promised to deliver to all the big publishers at that time. There was also a small, original series of writings which were originally going to be willed to my son upon my death. Originally, I was not going to speak out at all. Many times, I have regretted doing so, because of the harassment that followed. That is why I am currently living overseas, where, in fact, I have experienced no real harassment from anybody, and where my testimony has been well received. There WILL be a book published, if a fearless publisher can be found.

She may turn into someone important on the JFK assassination scene. But is she to be believed?

Key sources on the “Judyth” story include:

– an essay sarcastically titled “My Boring Life,” a response to David Lifton’s claim that Judyth has fabricated her story to add some interest to a her boring life.

– a biographical blurb written to her high school classmates and posted on the web page of Manatee High School. There were two versions of the blurb posted, one a bit “sanitized” after it apparently occurred to Judyth that her original version contained some things that are hard to swallow. Space constraints have forced her blurb off the current version of the high school alumni page.

– an outline, titled “Deadly Alliance,” sent to publishers and researchers. Carefully formatted and polished, this is the “official” version of her story – at least it was when it was written. In this essay, “the Judyth account” or “Judyth’s account” refers to “Deadly Alliance.”

– a draft of the final chapter of her book, titled “Before the Silence Came: Lee’s Last Telephone Calls.”

– a rambling version of her story and a response to critics written in November 2003.

– Yet another web page from Judyth, including several photos, and samples of Judyth’s artwork. (John McAdams)

McAdams would have the reader believe these are key sources of my story. They are not. I will address the problems in the selection McAdams decided to use. ACTUAL Key sources include:

(1) information on The Education Forum that is presented by those who actually know me and defend me (or, the information is straight from my mouth personally).

(2) The documentary "The Love Affair" which was recorded by thousands of American viewers (The Dallas Public Library also has a copy) The documentary, minus commercials, is 44 minutes long (3) An interview made May 13, 2004 by Black Op Radio, which is archived and available to all (it is an hour and a half long)

(4) Original emails (not stolen ones) and materials sent to trusted researchers which are being overseen by two long time investigators into my history (and sometimes they are still pretty rough with me, but I appreciate that!), namely, Martin Shackelford and Dr. Howard Platzman. There are other individuals who at this date have obtained significant portions of my testimony and have not, to my knowledge, altered it or misquoted it. Others pretended friendship, obtained materials, and have quoted out of context or even changed certain words. For example, I never wrote the phrase `fine hotel in Cancun. ´Never! But it is constantly quoted by the man who fabricated that phrase (Dave Reitzes). I sent Reitzes confidential material. he published all of it, even though some of it exposed information about my witnesses which I had promised to keep out of the public eye.

But to the key sources, so-called, cited by McAdams.

- an essay sarcastically titled "My Boring Life," a response to David Lifton's claim that Judyth has fabricated her story to add some interest to a her boring life.

Mr. Lifton spoke to me in a single telephone conversation lasting about an hour and a half. He illegally taped that conversation. He soon broke his promise to keep our conversation confidential, perhaps because the biography of Lee Oswald he had been working on for over ten years was hopelessly inaccurate, since he missed our love affair altogether, even though I have witnesses and considerable supporting evidence (much is circumstantial evidence, but it´s good, nevertheless, because I have so much of it). Lifton seems to have decided to discredit me rather than go to the trouble of rewriting his book. Debra Conway helped him write a portion of this book and admits to the friendship and influence of David Lifton. Conway shared materials with Lifton that she promised to keep confidential "to the grave." Lifton, knowing nothing about my actually interesting and exciting life, proposed that I made up everything because I was simply a bored housewife with nothing else to do who decided to insert herself into history. As if I saved all the evidence I have all these years all by accident! I put out a list of the many interesting experiences I’ve had in life, from raising five brilliant children who all got their degrees on full scholarships (I raised four of them as a single parent), to my backpacking in just a week across Israel (with help of donkey, camel, and soldiers). I sell my paintings internationally, was a newspaper reporter, have explored Indian mounds and Viking graves (I have a degree in anthropology), and was a counsellor for battered women and the homeless. My original intention was to become a doctor, and I was also doing cancer research while still in my teens that gained national attention. A psychiatrist who heard the story of my life did not believe me! I had the evidence at hand, but he declined to look at any of it and thought I made a lot of it up. I did not. From my work helping to invent new uses for limolene (orange oil) products, to having studied Egyptian hieroglyphs, to having my name on a monument for civic service, to having known and loved Lee Harvey Oswald, it’s all true. Boring life? No way. A KEY source of information about me? I suppose, though it was just a post in response to the silly idea that my life was boring so I made up the love affair Lee and I had.

- a biographical blurb written to her high school classmates and posted on the web page of Manatee High School.

McAdams doesn´t call this "Key Source" anything but ´blurb’, so why does he list it at all? It was originally sent to my classmates because nobody but they ever looked at the high school site. I changed the information several times to update it, and because space there was limited, some things were also taken out to make room for updates. McAdams called this "changing the story." It was only meant for my friends. I have a newspaper article from 1961 showing that 50 high school friends planned and hosted a welcome home party for me just before I left for college. I had avoided reunions and wanted my friends to learn why ( I did not want my name to become public because of my love affair with Lee, and I knew if I went to a reunion, I might tell somebody about Lee, so I stayed away... I contacted my high school friends when I knew that Sixty Minutes might film me. Later, Nigel Turner filmed me instead, so I updated the entry. Etc.

There were two versions of the blurb posted, one a bit "sanitized" after it apparently occurred to Judyth that her original version contained some things that are hard to swallow. Space constraints have forced her blurb off the current version of the high school alumni page.

McAdams uses the word ´blurb’ to downgrade to the reader what I wrote. As I already said, because of space constraints, when I added new material, I deleted some of the old. McAdams, even as he mentions space constraints, accuses me of sanitizing what I wrote. A person without prejudice will see that nothing of major importance was removed from the ´blurb’. McAdams also errs in believing that two versions only were posted. There were actually four updates. He only shows the last update. By then, some original material was excluded to make room for new material.

- an outline, titled "Deadly Alliance," sent to publishers and researchers.

Only a few publishers ever saw the outline. And they NEVER saw the outline at this stage (half finished, mostly written by Dr. Platzman). McAdams somehow got a copy of this material intended for only a few, and at a stage where a few researchers were asked to look at it for ideas on how to better handle the information. In fact, although the format looked nice, coming from a Microsoft Word program, the outline was a work in progress. It had some glaring errors, but there were large parts that were very nice, indeed. This preliminary outline version is a shrimp compared to the final 34 page version when the outline was finished. This does not stop McAdams from calling this ´polished...´ Hmmmm! It seems that the high school stuff was mere ´blurb’ but this.... which was itself undergoing development, is called ´polished.´ WHO told McAdams this was a finished product? Nobody!

Carefully formatted and polished, this is the "official" version of her story - at least it was when it was written. In this essay, "the Judyth account" or "Judyth's account" refers to "Deadly Alliance."

But folks, "Deadly Alliance" was an attempt to put my original book as edited and fluffed out by an unscrupulous agent who did so much editing he tried to call himself a co-author, with additions and organization by Dr. Howard Platzman, based on extensive emails he had received. Needless to say, Deadly Alliance was a work in progress. In fact, there were a number of errors and attempts to integrate the story, coming from too many different points of view. All of this was because I wished to avoid writing about certain things and had sought the help of Dr. Platzman as a ´with author’, and of my agent, to add any footnotes or comments. Platzman did a good job, but he described me and Lee in ways that were just not ‘us’. As for the literary agent, he put in actual nonsense and in some cases, some inaccurate phrases and ideas, mostly because he knew almost nothing about the JFK assassination.

The manuscript excerpts from which McAdams quotes, then, are from an unfinished work that was eventually discarded because there were too many errors and difficulties in reconciling what I knew with what got written. It was very painful and difficult to read the manuscript. I put it off for a long time. Finally, upon reading the version that went around, I realized that it would never be the book I had hoped for. I therefore went back to the original book and the written materials I’d compiled for my son in 1998, and from these, with some additions from the Deadly Alliance book, I did finish a book which was more accurate as to how Lee spoke and what we did. Many years had passed, and I had not any idea of what was important and what was not to write about. I do have a much better idea now. I saved a great deal of evidence, however, to back up everything I’ve written. Also, I would like to add that only minor details have sometimes been changed. For example, I NEVER said I would meet Lee at Cancun and we would stay in a fine hotel. Part of a dialogue I wrote got ´enhanced’ to identify ´Cancun’. For that error and many others, and for just plain greediness, I fired my literary agent. Later, I had to ask Dr. Platzman’s forgiveness, but after removing what the literary agent put on, the book was in shreds and a lot of Dr. Platzman’s materials had incorporated some of the fluff added by the agent. Another problem was trying to get the chronology correct. After all, many years had passed.

For all these reasons, it should be clear that Deadly Alliance was not a finished product at any time. I might work down a page and not even get to the end, but send it off to Howard to see if he liked what I had fixed so far... what McAdams got his hands on he calls a finished product. It never was!

- a draft of the final chapter of her book, titled "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls."

- a draft of the final chapter of her book, titled "Before the Silence Came: Lee's Last Telephone Calls."

It certainly was a draft, but elsewhere, McAdams quotes portions of it as if the final chapter had been set in carved stone!

- a rambling version of her story and a response to critics written in November 2003.

How nice of McAdams to once again inject into his discourse another negative connotation so that the reader will have a low opinion of whatever I write!

- Yet another web page from Judyth, including several photos, and samples of Judyth's artwork.

And McAdams took one of those photos without permission, a copyrighted photo, and published it on this attack website! It belongs to me, it is going to be in the book, but he appropriated it anyway. I have asked him twice to remove it from his website. He refuses to do so. What an ethical guy.


Last edited by regicide on Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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loose_ends



Joined: 23 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

regicide wrote:
loose_ends wrote:
Hey Reg.

What would be the best JFK doc in your opinion?


I am not sure which documents you are referring to?


I meant documentary. Which is the best, in your opinion? Or a short list of good ones.
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BreakfastInBed



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T. Casey Brennan did it, where you guys been?
http://www.google.com/search?q=t.+casey+brennan
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loose_ends wrote:
regicide wrote:
loose_ends wrote:
Hey Reg.

What would be the best JFK doc in your opinion?


I am not sure which documents you are referring to?


I meant documentary. Which is the best, in your opinion? Or a short list of good ones.


The Men Who Killed Kennedy is certainly the place to start. There is also a lot of evidence developed by Attorney Mark Lane concerning many aspects of the case including the murder of Officer Tippit.

In this 1966 interview Acquila Clemmons states that there were TWO men at Tippets killing including a "fat one".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OH06xqX2g

Comments about the video interview:


"So what do we make of this? The second man, the one NOT holding the gun, fits Oswald's description.

Who was the other man, the short fat one? What is the connection between the two, and what was Oswald's role, if in fact it was him?

I don't recall, but was the gun later found on Oswald proven to be the murder weapon of Officer Tippett?

Ms. Clemmons testimony would make the shooting of Tippet a conspiracy and again, the police investigation into it another cover-up of the facts.

What year did this interviewer do these films? 1966"


" The Acquila Clemmons interview says it all. Two guys including Oswald were involved in killing Tippit. But Acquila says the other guy did the killing, not Oswald. She then states she was threated to keep her mouth shut about it and was never called to testify."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjiOolyy_0I
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a REAL rarity from the Vince Palamara archives: in the only known record of his speaking voice, former Secret Service agent William R. "Bill" Greer, the inept driver of JFK's death car on 11/22/63, speaks by phone to researcher Roy Ennis on 12/6/70 (for the self-published book "Murder From Within")


http://youtube.com/watch?v=sF6reI9kIGI
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regicide wrote:
This is a REAL rarity from the Vince Palamara archives: in the only known record of his speaking voice, former Secret Service agent William R. "Bill" Greer, the inept driver of JFK's death car on 11/22/63, speaks by phone to researcher Roy Ennis on 12/6/70 (for the self-published book "Murder From Within")


http://youtube.com/watch?v=sF6reI9kIGI

That is pretty wild that he was never even interviewed by the FBI.
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regicide



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
regicide wrote:
This is a REAL rarity from the Vince Palamara archives: in the only known record of his speaking voice, former Secret Service agent William R. "Bill" Greer, the inept driver of JFK's death car on 11/22/63, speaks by phone to researcher Roy Ennis on 12/6/70 (for the self-published book "Murder From Within")


http://youtube.com/watch?v=sF6reI9kIGI

That is pretty wild that he was never even interviewed by the FBI.


He lied several times in the interview as you can see in the Zapruder Film Greer looking back at the dying Kennedy three times, not once.

Furthermore, witnesses state the limo came to a virtual halt while the shots rang out. It wouldnt be difficult , with the car stopped, to look back.

And if there were no people on the overpass, then why in the heck didn't he speed out of there?

The FBI did not interview him because they were in on it; and they did not want to learn anything that would contradict the cover story which was planned.

The cover story of a lone-gunman getting some lucky shots in from his place of employment. The legendary, and innocent Lee Harvey Oswald.
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