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Got an email from ATEK (Tony Hellman) today.
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TheChickenLover



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Got an email from ATEK (Tony Hellman) today. Reply with quote

It seems that he's trying to contact all the teachers in EPIK to drum up support and I received spam. He's called it the 'Equal Checks for all Campaign'.

He's looking to have at least 100 complaints filed this year to have everyone jump through the hoops that the E-2's have to. I find that quite disturbing.

I'm on an F-5. I've gone through all the required checks for myself as well as my wife's and am personally NOT interested in having to go through criminal and medical checks, I have always done so.

Why?

Because it's the Ministry of Education Policy as well as many universities out there as a condition of term of employment.

I had to give a criminal background check (VSS) alongside a health check when I entered the EPIK program. This wasn't for immigration, but for the ministry. What Tony hasn't realized is that ALL KT's have to submit health checks as well.

There is an extreme amount of bitterness in his views of those between E-2, E-1, F-2, F-4, F-5. I also feel he does not fully understand that nature of these visa's.

E-class represents EMPLOYMENT. It requires a certain amount of screening while the endless revolving door turns as new people come to replace those who are leaving. Many have stayed for years on an E-class visa, but they are NOT entitled to stay.

F-class refers to FAMILY visas. The lifting of restrictions was to prevent excessive bureaucracy that was present with these visa's a few years ago. It used to be that people who were with family had to ask persmission to work, but with the amount of corruption and problems some had to even make it to the immigration office, they lifted these provisions. Immigration wanted to make the lives of these people better by making life living here easier, and they have.

The F-5 visa is the holy grail in which you can do anything you want w/o restrictions like a Korean with the exception of not being able to vote for President. I have one of those and it DOES feel good not to have to go through all the hoops the E-guys have because we have ROOTS here and are settled in this society. To treat us as a common short term worker would is not only insulting, but wrong for those who have chosen to make Korea their home.

But this is completely irrelevant. Tony's crusade will not affect me, as it should neither F-2 nor F-4 visa holders because they are NOT temporary employees.

The testing for EPIK are required by the ministry itself. I was surprised at first when I was required the documents, but was able to obtain everything they needed in a relatively short amount of time. Universities may require the same. My last English Dept required me to provide a full medical and a local criminal background check due to my current visa status. This wasn't for immigration, it was for themselves.

Tony's crusade will not change anything. But what I find insulting is that he wants to make it WORSE for everyone so we can all share his misery. He does not represent all teachers here, and with his simplistic mentality, perhaps of screening everyone equally, he could have put his energy to better use such as pressing the gov't for better record keeping or a much simpler process.

It's actually quite sad.

Chicken
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traxxe



Joined: 21 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't sad and it has a point.

Non-citizens with Korean blood can and frequently do teach on the F visas when they come here. To only make foreigners jump through hoops and exclude them is ridiculous and racial/visa profiling.

If you come here to teach or have a teaching job you should be required to have the same visa regulations regardless of your blood ties to the country. Having Korean blood does not make you any less a liability to children in this country.

If Koreans adopted these measures for E2 workers in order to protect children then targeting foreigners only isn't the sollution. Every teacher should have to undergo such scrutiny in order for the policy not to be flat out racist.

My hope with the confrontation is that all teachers will be on the same visa regardless of blood. If the argument is that these measures protect children then Korea should not do a half-assed job in their protection of children.

If Korea is unwilling to scrutinize others based on their blood connection to Korea then the UN and the world will be more aware ot the prevailing racism that exists in this country. The racism here is institutionalized in its courts and in its Visa process. Confronting racism whenever possible is a noble cause. Challenging the E2 visa regulations by insisting they be made equal is the proper way to confront this situation. The Korean government should equally investigate all teachers to protect children and not just those without Korean blood or ties to it. The other option is that if Korea is unwilling to demand Korean blood be sucked into the needles for the HIV and other screening then they should drop the mandate altogether.

My uni does require a medical check but not a criminal one. Most hogwans would require neither.

My thoughts at least... I do respect other opinions on this.
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TheChickenLover



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds very noble & all...but the education office DOES require you to go through the checks. I'm on an F-5 and had to submit all the documentation that an E-2 had to.

Is that discrimination? It wasn't immigration that did it.

So in the end, everyone in a public school is checked. ATEK has conveniently omitted this in their interests. However, they have no public clout and can essentially are whining that it's not fair and trying to use the UN to shame a change.

Perhaps they should have educated themselves in the concept of 'public sentiment' after the CPN affair to understand why this happened. But they're very short sighted.

Chicken Rolling Eyes


Last edited by TheChickenLover on Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tony (ATEK)



Joined: 20 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Got an email from ATEK (Tony Hellman) today. Reply with quote

TheChickenLover wrote:

He's looking to have at least 100 complaints filed this year to have everyone jump through the hoops that the E-2's have to. I find that quite disturbing.


I think you misunderstand the point. Have you read the interview with Ben Wagner and looked at our website? We don't want everyone to jump through the same hoops. We aren't pro-checks OR anti-checks. We are anti-discrimination, and the drug test and HIV test are clearly discriminatory. The government has said they are necessary to protect children, but no foreign teachers were arrested for any of the drugs they test for in the three years prior to the drug test being implemented. There was no cause, and if you do something to a particular group of people without cause, that's discrimination.

TheChickenLover wrote:
Because it's the Ministry of Education Policy as well as many universities out there as a condition of term of employment.

I had to give a criminal background check (VSS) alongside a health check when I entered the EPIK program. This wasn't for immigration, but for the ministry. What Tony hasn't realized is that ALL KT's have to submit health checks as well.


That is not mandated by Korean law in every jurisdiction in Korea.

TheChickenLover wrote:

F-class refers to FAMILY visas. The lifting of restrictions was to prevent excessive bureaucracy that was present with these visa's a few years ago. It used to be that people who were with family had to ask persmission to work, but with the amount of corruption and problems some had to even make it to the immigration office, they lifted these provisions. Immigration wanted to make the lives of these people better by making life living here easier, and they have.


F-4s do not necessarily have family here. Neither do F-5s.

TheChickenLover wrote:
To treat us as a common short term worker would is not only insulting, but wrong for those who have chosen to make Korea their home.


To you, the E-series visa holders are "common short term workers"? WOW Chicken. Thanks for letting us know how you think.

TheChickenLover wrote:
The testing for EPIK are required by the ministry itself. I was surprised at first when I was required the documents, but was able to obtain everything they needed in a relatively short amount of time. Universities may require the same. My last English Dept required me to provide a full medical and a local criminal background check due to my current visa status. This wasn't for immigration, it was for themselves.


And that's the way it should be. It should be a requirement for those employed to work with children, not all foreigners across the board. Are you aware that the legislation currently in the National Assembly will allow Immigration to require E-2 style checks of all foreigners on work visas? The stated rationale is that "a good many foreigners coming to Korea have criminal record, use drugs, or have AIDS" and we need to protect children from them (that language is from the bill's rationale). What does a 52-year-old contract engineer for Samsung have to do with children?

TheChickenLover wrote:
Tony's crusade will not change anything. But what I find insulting is that he wants to make it WORSE for everyone so we can all share his misery. He does not represent all teachers here, and with his simplistic mentality, perhaps of screening everyone equally, he could have put his energy to better use such as pressing the gov't for better record keeping or a much simpler process.

It's actually quite sad.

Chicken


You're right, we don't represent all teachers here. That's why we're asking people to file their own complaints on their own behalf. I guess your beef is with the 75 people that have filed thus far. And guess what? Some of them are F-5 holders too.
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TheChickenLover



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Got an email from ATEK (Tony Hellman) today. Reply with quote

Tony (ATEK) wrote:
TheChickenLover wrote:

He's looking to have at least 100 complaints filed this year to have everyone jump through the hoops that the E-2's have to. I find that quite disturbing.


I think you misunderstand the point. Have you read the interview with Ben Wagner and looked at our website? We don't want everyone to jump through the same hoops. We aren't pro-checks OR anti-checks. We are anti-discrimination, and the drug test and HIV test are clearly discriminatory. The government has said they are necessary to protect children, but no foreign teachers were arrested for any of the drugs they test for in the three years prior to the drug test being implemented. There was no cause, and if you do something to a particular group of people without cause, that's discrimination.

TheChickenLover wrote:
Because it's the Ministry of Education Policy as well as many universities out there as a condition of term of employment.

I had to give a criminal background check (VSS) alongside a health check when I entered the EPIK program. This wasn't for immigration, but for the ministry. What Tony hasn't realized is that ALL KT's have to submit health checks as well.


That is not mandated by Korean law in every jurisdiction in Korea.

TheChickenLover wrote:

F-class refers to FAMILY visas. The lifting of restrictions was to prevent excessive bureaucracy that was present with these visa's a few years ago. It used to be that people who were with family had to ask persmission to work, but with the amount of corruption and problems some had to even make it to the immigration office, they lifted these provisions. Immigration wanted to make the lives of these people better by making life living here easier, and they have.


F-4s do not necessarily have family here. Neither do F-5s.

TheChickenLover wrote:
To treat us as a common short term worker would is not only insulting, but wrong for those who have chosen to make Korea their home.


To you, the E-series visa holders are "common short term workers"? WOW Chicken. Thanks for letting us know how you think.

TheChickenLover wrote:
The testing for EPIK are required by the ministry itself. I was surprised at first when I was required the documents, but was able to obtain everything they needed in a relatively short amount of time. Universities may require the same. My last English Dept required me to provide a full medical and a local criminal background check due to my current visa status. This wasn't for immigration, it was for themselves.


And that's the way it should be. It should be a requirement for those employed to work with children, not all foreigners across the board. Are you aware that the legislation currently in the National Assembly will allow Immigration to require E-2 style checks of all foreigners on work visas? The stated rationale is that "a good many foreigners coming to Korea have criminal record, use drugs, or have AIDS" and we need to protect children from them (that language is from the bill's rationale). What does a 52-year-old contract engineer for Samsung have to do with children?

TheChickenLover wrote:
Tony's crusade will not change anything. But what I find insulting is that he wants to make it WORSE for everyone so we can all share his misery. He does not represent all teachers here, and with his simplistic mentality, perhaps of screening everyone equally, he could have put his energy to better use such as pressing the gov't for better record keeping or a much simpler process.

It's actually quite sad.

Chicken


You're right, we don't represent all teachers here. That's why we're asking people to file their own complaints on their own behalf. I guess your beef is with the 75 people that have filed thus far. And guess what? Some of them are F-5 holders too.




Rubbish. The AIDS test & criminal background check are NOT discriminatory. They are unpleasant since I personally hate needles, but they are preconditions to getting a visa and in many cases employement. Numerous company's in the West require drug screening as well as a crminal background check for employment. In cases such as banks, a credit background check is also required. Whining about it isnt' going to make it easier because you say it's not 'fair'. Any country can put whatever barriers it wants to work here. YOU have no right to dictate to another country the terms you want or what you think is fair. Imagine Mexicans tryingto tell the US what they think would be fair to let them come work in the States...yeah right. Rolling Eyes


You mentioned the tests not being mandated. Well they are not, but they ARE in place. Just because they are not put in every aspect of Korean society to appease your sense of fairness doens't mean they should.

As for F-4,F-5 visa's. We are PART of the country now. You have ZERO right to come here and tell the gov't how we should be treated. Who the @#$#@ do you think you are to impose your sense of fairness on me? Can you vote? No! So @#[email protected] off then. Until you have the right to vote in this country, I'd strongly suggest you ease off on the residents who have earned the right to live here in peace without you intefering with my rights. Then again, perhaps I should file a formal complaint with the Ministry of Justice about your actions. Since you're interfering with my rights as a permanent resident through political actions, perhaps I'll file a formal complaint since we're treated as Koreans by law. My wife works with for the Ministry of Justice, I'm sure it could prove very interesting. I'll leave your next posting to make my decision on why you think you have any real right to impose your beliefs on my rights in this country other than your sense of 'fairness'.

And yes...E-class visa's are short term workers. If you don't like it, then change your visa status and put roots down in this country. If you have a few F-5 visa holders supporting your petition, I'd suspect they have very little foresight as to what could happen to the priviledges they've aquired that could be taken away by your actions.

I'm waiting your next reply.

Chicken


Last edited by TheChickenLover on Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traxxe wrote:
It . The Korean government should equally investigate all teachers to protect children and not just those without Korean blood or ties to it. The other option is that if Korea is unwilling to demand Korean blood be sucked into the needles for the HIV and other screening then they should drop the mandate altogether.

.



FYI Korean teachers DO require a health check (every two years) and a criminal check before they teach kids.
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bassexpander



Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong, Chicken? Are you worried about that "Holy Grail" F-5 losing it's Holy Grailness? Laughing
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TheChickenLover



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bassexpander wrote:
What's wrong, Chicken? Are you worried about that "Holy Grail" F-5 losing it's Holy Grailness? Laughing



If Tony has formed an association to lobby the government to lower my rights or privileges in this country because he wants to impose his sense of fairness on me, then yeah. Political actions by those without F-5 visa's are illegal in this country, so yeah. I'd file a formal complaint and have his ass fined, jailed and deported without a hint of lost sleep.

One additional point of interest. By mass-emailing people with lists of teachers in each province & encouraging them to get their friends to file a complaint against the authorities, this is a direct link to canvassing and lobbying those who are NOT allowed to engage in political activities to do so through a 3rd party. In short, he's begging for people to get others to join his campaign to support his cause which is a political action since he's claimed he's representin nearly 20,000 teachers in this country.

To back up that claim, he must provide names + registration numbers to back that claim up (which he can't do) and by this alone can lead to a case of misrepresentation of his organisation.

I'm extremely inticed to file a complaint to legally stop this. I have rights in this country and I'm not sure if Tony has any (nor any legal standing in respect of other teachers) other than trying to shame the authorities into action via an outside proxy. So residents with political rights vs short-term workers with no legal rights political rights.

Who do you think will win?

Chicken


Last edited by TheChickenLover on Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:44 pm; edited 3 times in total
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cruisemonkey



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
FYI Korean teachers DO require a health check (every two years) and a criminal check before they teach kids.


This is true. I've seen the posting in my PS 'staff room' listing all K-teachers who had to get health checks last year. I also know for a fact that they have to have a criminal background check before they can work in a PS.
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dmbfan



Joined: 09 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tony's crusade will not change anything.



See, with all the complaints on this board about Korea, Koreans and the system, one might think that Tony's "crusade" is a good starting point.


If you don't like it, or want any part of it..........then just shut up about it and go your own way. But, don't assume that Tony and ATEK will fail. It sounds some WANT him to fail so that they can go on complaining about Korea and how they got screwed.

WTF?

Again, if you don't want any part of it........then just walk away and keep your mouth shut about it. This "crusade" does not need negativity. But, with so many apathetic foreigners who have been in korea too long, it is not surprising that they actually WANT Tony and ATEK to fail.

I'm all for it Tony.

dmbfan
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Tony (ATEK)



Joined: 20 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Got an email from ATEK (Tony Hellman) today. Reply with quote

TheChickenLover wrote:

Rubbish. The AIDS test & criminal background check are NOT discriminatory. They are unpleasant since I personally hate needles, but they are preconditions to getting a visa and in many cases employement. Numerous company's in the West require drug screening as well as a crminal background check for employment. In cases such as banks, a credit background check is also required.


But companies in the West don't say "We're going to test you for AIDS and drugs if you're from one of these seven countries. Everyone else is okay." That's why we're advocating Equal Checks for All.


TheChickenLover wrote:
Whining about it isnt' going to make it easier because you say it's not 'fair'. Any country can put whatever barriers it wants to work here. YOU have no right to dictate to another country the terms you want or what you think is fair. Imagine Mexicans tryingto tell the US what they think would be fair to let them come work in the States...yeah right. Rolling Eyes


The Korean Constitution guarantees me and you the right to be free from discrimination. Further, Korean is a party to international treaties that prohibit this type of discrimination. I'm not telling Korea to adopt some new radical idea. I'm asking people to ask the government to follow its own laws.


TheChickenLover wrote:
You mentioned the tests not being mandated. Well they are not, but they ARE in place.


Not in every province and major metropolitan city.

TheChickenLover wrote:
As for F-4,F-5 visa's. We are PART of the country now. You have ZERO right to come here and tell the gov't how we should be treated.


I'm not telling the government how you should be treated. You're making a bit of a logic jump there. I'm telling the government how I'd like to be treated, and you're predicting the government is going to slap new restrictions on you. The one does not necessarily follow the other.

TheChickenLover wrote:
Until you have the right to vote in this country, I'd strongly suggest you ease off on the residents who have earned the right to live here in peace without you intefering with my rights.


I haven't interfered with your rights, and neither have the other teachers who have filed complaints. They are advocating for their own rights. My father used to say "Your right to swing your fists ends where the other guy's nose begins." I will not sit silently by and watch 20,000 teachers face discrimination because it upsets you.

TheChickenLover wrote:
Then again, perhaps I should file a formal complaint with the Ministry of Justice about your actions. Since you're interfering with my rights as a permanent resident through political actions, perhaps I'll file a formal complaint since we're treated as Koreans by law. My wife works with for the Ministry of Justice, I'm sure it could prove very interesting. I'll leave your next posting to make my decision on why you think you have any real right to impose your beliefs on my rights in this country other than your sense of 'fairness'.


I fully support your right to freedom of speech, as guaranteed you and I by the same constitution that allows me the right to file a complaint with the National Human Rights Commission of Korea.

TheChickenLover wrote:
And yes...E-class visa's are short term workers.


I noticed you dropped "common" from your label "common short-term workers," in your response (quoted about) Is that because you realize how offensive and classist it is?

TheChickenLover wrote:
If you don't like it, then change your visa status and put roots down in this country.


I've never told you my visa status, to my knowledge. It isn't E-2. But it was, once, and that's why I'm involved.

TheChickenLover wrote:
If you have a few F-5 visa holders supporting your petition, I'd suspect they have very little foresight as to what could happen to the priviledges they've aquired that could be taken away by your actions.


I know. You're all about what you "suspect" and predict, and speculate on.

And if you're "treated as Koreans" on an F-5 as you say, why do you have to worry about having rights and privileges taken away?

I've said all I need to say in this thread. I got involved because I thought readers needed a counterpoint to what you've said, and I've delivered it. The readers can make up their own minds at this point.
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TheChickenLover



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since Tony IS trying to impact my life in Korea (in a negative way), you better believe I won't walk away. Any person who has roots in this country can easily see how this can negatively impact them.

I don't believe I'm the only one here with roots who feels this way. But this will be stopped.

Chicken
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pocariboy73



Joined: 23 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tony's crusade will not change anything. But what I find insulting is that he wants to make it WORSE for everyone so we can all share his misery. He does not represent all teachers here, and with his simplistic mentality, perhaps of screening everyone equally, he could have put his energy to better use such as pressing the gov't for better record keeping or a much simpler process.

It's actually quite sad.

Chicken


Misery loves company!

I hope the whole lot of them get deported Laughing
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dmbfan



Joined: 09 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Since Tony IS trying to impact my life in Korea (in a negative way), you better believe I won't walk away. Any person who has roots in this country can easily see how this can negatively impact them.

I don't believe I'm the only one here with roots who feels this way. But this will be stopped.

Chicken



And, it will keep impacting you becuase it will NOT go away.

Chances are, you and others who actually have roots in Korea are the minority.

There are many reasons why Korea has a bad reputation..........if you want to align yourself with that, go ahead. But, this is for the greater good, to help, advise and protect teachers here on this shit hole who are getting screwed.


There are many reasons why Korea and it pathetic teachers union don't want this to happen. Mainly, it will expose these people as the mental midgets they are. They will be forced to get with the program.

Step one of that would be allowing foreign teachers to own their visa. Everyone knows Japan does it and it works, by keeping the schoosl in line. The mental midgets here are still stuck in their outdated, useless confuscist mentality.

ATEK may help them see the light.

But, you want to join that group of mental midgets while selling out thouands of people who will need ATEK (possibly even you one day), go ahead. Be "that guy".


dmbfan
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TheChickenLover



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Got an email from ATEK (Tony Hellman) today. Reply with quote

Tony (ATEK) wrote:
TheChickenLover wrote:

Rubbish. The AIDS test & criminal background check are NOT discriminatory. They are unpleasant since I personally hate needles, but they are preconditions to getting a visa and in many cases employement. Numerous company's in the West require drug screening as well as a crminal background check for employment. In cases such as banks, a credit background check is also required.


But companies in the West don't say "We're going to test you for AIDS and drugs if you're from one of these seven countries. Everyone else is okay." That's why we're advocating Equal Checks for All.


TheChickenLover wrote:
Whining about it isnt' going to make it easier because you say it's not 'fair'. Any country can put whatever barriers it wants to work here. YOU have no right to dictate to another country the terms you want or what you think is fair. Imagine Mexicans tryingto tell the US what they think would be fair to let them come work in the States...yeah right. Rolling Eyes


The Korean Constitution guarantees me and you the right to be free from discrimination. Further, Korean is a party to international treaties that prohibit this type of discrimination. I'm not telling Korea to adopt some new radical idea. I'm asking people to ask the government to follow its own laws.


TheChickenLover wrote:
You mentioned the tests not being mandated. Well they are not, but they ARE in place.


Not in every province and major metropolitan city.

TheChickenLover wrote:
As for F-4,F-5 visa's. We are PART of the country now. You have ZERO right to come here and tell the gov't how we should be treated.


I'm not telling the government how you should be treated. You're making a bit of a logic jump there. I'm telling the government how I'd like to be treated, and you're predicting the government is going to slap new restrictions on you. The one does not necessarily follow the other.

TheChickenLover wrote:
Until you have the right to vote in this country, I'd strongly suggest you ease off on the residents who have earned the right to live here in peace without you intefering with my rights.


I haven't interfered with your rights, and neither have the other teachers who have filed complaints. They are advocating for their own rights. My father used to say "Your right to swing your fists ends where the other guy's nose begins." I will not sit silently by and watch 20,000 teachers face discrimination because it upsets you.

TheChickenLover wrote:
Then again, perhaps I should file a formal complaint with the Ministry of Justice about your actions. Since you're interfering with my rights as a permanent resident through political actions, perhaps I'll file a formal complaint since we're treated as Koreans by law. My wife works with for the Ministry of Justice, I'm sure it could prove very interesting. I'll leave your next posting to make my decision on why you think you have any real right to impose your beliefs on my rights in this country other than your sense of 'fairness'.


I fully support your right to freedom of speech, as guaranteed you and I by the same constitution that allows me the right to file a complaint with the National Human Rights Commission of Korea.

TheChickenLover wrote:
And yes...E-class visa's are short term workers.


I noticed you dropped "common" from your label "common short-term workers," in your response (quoted about) Is that because you realize how offensive and classist it is?

TheChickenLover wrote:
If you don't like it, then change your visa status and put roots down in this country.


I've never told you my visa status, to my knowledge. It isn't E-2. But it was, once, and that's why I'm involved.

TheChickenLover wrote:
If you have a few F-5 visa holders supporting your petition, I'd suspect they have very little foresight as to what could happen to the priviledges they've aquired that could be taken away by your actions.


I know. You're all about what you "suspect" and predict, and speculate on.

And if you're "treated as Koreans" on an F-5 as you say, why do you have to worry about having rights and privileges taken away?

I've said all I need to say in this thread. I got involved because I thought readers needed a counterpoint to what you've said, and I've delivered it. The readers can make up their own minds at this point.



There is a HUGE difference between standing up for your rights and trying to get the laws / policies changed based on your personal beliefs. You are not trying to protect yourself Tony, you are trying to use 20,000 supposed supporters to support a poltical movement in this country.

Fair enough. I'll enquire and file a criminal complaint next week against ATEK since your activities may infringe on my rights as a permanent resident in this country. Key the word *may* since you've lumped me in wiht your F-class hooplah.

I have all your info. Those who have signed petitions supporting this who are on E-class visa's can also be held liable for their actions in joining a political group in Korea and acting officially since they've filed an official complaint based on your mass-emailings. I would not be surprised if immigration or the police contact you to provide all the personal information/names/numbers & other contact information since they are essentially doing something they can't do.

As other nationalities do, they complain through their embassies...not by breaking the laws here.

TheChickenLover vs ATEK.

I'm sure the next few weeks will make interesting reading on this forum.

Chicken
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