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Discussions about legal issues regarding visas
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KimchiGarden



Joined: 19 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
wow..that was some convulted and twisted logic there KG.

Its ok, if you think calling someone an anti-semite is not calling someone racist. No worries, your call and really no skin off my back. It religion prejudice you you called JT a religious bigot. My apologies that insult is far milder. the point is you went after this person based on what?

Thank you for your concern about my education however, but I an quite educated and worledly enough. I am touched by your concern however. It was most kind.

By the way I am not attacking you so you call off your cyber hounds. I am merely wondering why you would go after JT.


I guess "convulted and twisted logic" is also known as knowing what words mean.

Yes, Pat (I will say it again) Jews and Americans are not a race, and I never called anybody a racist. Yes I think JT is a religous bigot (not the same as racist). AND I never called him a racist. An anti-American religious bigot like Jason Thomas should not be part of an orginization like ATEK. You agreed to apologise for lying about what you claimed I said, and I am waiting to see that.

Your education? LOL. Well, I can't argue that you are "worledly"

Cyber hounds? LOL. The only person who posted between your posts and mine was "theurbanmyth". Did you read what TUM wrote? Who are the cyber hound that are attacking you. (Um.... voices in your head don't count)

Get a grip man. listen, just apologise for lying. I got no beef with you, and if you want to know why I am talking about JT, then after you apologise, just ask.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KG..I edited my post...I typed it up quickly between two things I was doing.

Apologies for the shoddy writing.

The cyber hounds comment was meant in jest. The comment about racism vs religious bigotry however was not. I find both accusations to be the same as both are based on saying a person is a bigot against a group of people based on a single category (ethicity, language, religion...).

You called JT a religous bigot and implied worse.

I will ask again: why are you going after this man? What has he done to you?

Is a persons membership in other unions a crime?

I mean and I am asking honestly JG: where does it stop?
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Straphanger



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
The cyber hounds comment was meant in jest. The comment about racism vs religious bigotry however was not. I find both accusations to be the same as both are based on saying a person is a bigot against a group of people based on a single category (ethicity, language, religion...).

But they're not the same though, right? Do you understand the difference between racism and anti-Semitism?
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to derail the argument but since this is about visas. I believe as do many I am sure that Koreans have the absolute RIght to decide visa policies concerning teachers , themselves. I know that many feel that some parts of the visa policies are unfair but it is for Koreans to make that decision. However well intentioned, the presumption that Korea needed the help of Westerners to create policy or to keep their children safe smacks of Western arrogance. Since most on this board and others have already jumped through visa hoops what A.t.e.K was advocating was of help for people thinking about teaching in Korea, not people who were here. Really not representing teachers! I for the life of me can not understand how testing for H.I.V is such a violation of human rights. If H.Iv. positive I think a person would have coming to Korea to teach English far down on their list of priorities. The drug testing, again that is their decision. Koreans have a totally different attitude about drugs , because of history and their own experiences and that is their right. The current visa regs seem pretty reasonable to many and more importantly they seem reasonable to koreans and that is what counts. First impressions are the ones that count and A.T.E.K came off as arrogant, confrontational , and inflexable. If they really want to represent thousands of techers they are going to have to loose the rigidity, the smugness, and the attitude that they always know better than their hosts. As far as the attacks , a certain person in a.t.E.K posted a lot of stuff here and oon other blogs and forums about how lontimers , f-visa holders were drunks and buttkissers. he wanted a fight, he got one.
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KimchiGarden



Joined: 19 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Discussions about legal issues regarding visas Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
I had wondered up to this point if ATEK and Prof Wagner had poked the tiger hard enough to get its attention. I guess this opinion piece on the Korea Times answers that.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2009/03/137_40819.html


This thread is about a lot of things. One of them is about the so called "prof" Wagner.
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usaenglish13



Joined: 15 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My school and I mutually agreed to end the contract early. But I am taking some online classes and I want to finish them before I leave. They end in a few weeks.

So, I want to stop teaching and stay an extra month to finish the classes.

My school seems to be ok with this but the director's English is extremely low level and Im not totally sure we are understanding each other. My worry is that we dont understand each other and he cancels my visa without me knowing about it.

Then I try to leave in a month, and immigration tells me I did something wrong.

Im not sure if I want to come back to Korea again but I'd like to leave the option open.

So, I think my question really is:

If I am assigned an exit order, is there someone that has to show it to me in order for it to be valid?

If I have an exit order but no one tells me about it, and I know nothing about it, can i be given consequences for not obeying it (fines, not being allowed another korean visa in the future)?

If I do have an exit order, that's fine. Its inconvenient but ill just leave. Im more worried about what happens if my visa is cancelled and I dont know anything about it.

Actually experiences would be nice to hear.


thanks
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sdeutch



Joined: 24 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was trying to figure out if this is true. I signed a contact to teach in South Korea and sent in my documents. I then canceled the contract because it was in a place I had heard bad things about. I unfortunately was told after the documents were sent. The school is now saying that if I don't go with them I will not be eligible to teach in South Korea since I turned down the visa for what they view as no reason. I don't see how they could keep me from getting a new visa especially since my passport has not been stamped and I never left the country. I have a strong feeling they are just pissed off at me and being spiteful. But is there any legitimacy in what they are saying?
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdeutch wrote:
I was trying to figure out if this is true. I signed a contact to teach in South Korea and sent in my documents. I then canceled the contract because it was in a place I had heard bad things about. I unfortunately was told after the documents were sent. The school is now saying that if I don't go with them I will not be eligible to teach in South Korea since I turned down the visa for what they view as no reason. I don't see how they could keep me from getting a new visa especially since my passport has not been stamped and I never left the country. I have a strong feeling they are just pissed off at me and being spiteful. But is there any legitimacy in what they are saying?



They're just being spiteful. Unless you have sent off any documents that you cannot get replaced...you will be fine. Is this a hakwon or public school BTW?

I left a school (hakwon) early five years back because they weren't paying pension or medical insurance. They threatened me saying they'd make sure I never worked in South Korea again. I'm still here and still working five years after the fact. Never heard anything about it again either from the school or Immigration. Simply ignore them and apply to another school.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said it many times on this forum, but it won't make any difference;

if Korea would pattern the E-2 visa on the visa system in place in Japan, a lot of the complaints and problems would evaporate.

Even if it means teachers would have to find their own housing, it still would be better in the long run and you would find that teachers would be a happier lot in general.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if Korea would pattern the E-2 visa on the visa system in place in Japan, a lot of the complaints and problems would evaporate.

Even if it means teachers would have to find their own housing, it still would be better in the long run and you would find that teachers would be a happier lot in general.


It is possible some of the complaints would evaporate. I think it would be a right step to make visas more flexible but that would also mean no housing or airfare. So as you said Teachers would need to look for their own housing but also pay for their airfare over. This does not jive very well with the current method of mostly hiring fresh grads.

The system in Japan is not about complete freedom either. If you wish to change jobs you can keep your visa but you need paperwork from your old employer and from the new employer who agrees to transfer the sponsorship of your visa. The visa remains an employer-sponsored work visa.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't worked in Japan myself, but I have spoken to many who have worked in both Japan and Korea.....

Generally teachers in Japan seem happier.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as an update...some decisions were made about ATEK.

Scouse Mouse put them up on his blog and no other blogs have picked it up....

The info in the blog post is two fold:

1- It addresses the Equal Checks Campaign and the response from the Human Rights Comission.

2- It addresses ATEKs legal status and clears up many questions about the association.

Basically it says the Equal Checks Campaign will lead to nothing and was not that well founded. It also clearly states ATEK is legal (good news) as long as it is careful about how it manages its money.

As this is a blog post from Scouse Mouse and it has not been picked up on any other blogs I think cross-confirmation of the information may be a wise thing...then again it is odd none of the blogs who discussed ATEK before mentionned this.

Here is the link:

http://yonguksaram.com/the-nhrck-have-made-their-decision-and-atek-are-not-operating-illegally.html
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Just as an update...some decisions were made about ATEK.

Scouse Mouse put them up on his blog and no other blogs have picked it up....

The info in the blog post is two fold:

1- It addresses the Equal Checks Campaign and the response from the Human Rights Comission.

2- It addresses ATEKs legal status and clears up many questions about the association.

Basically it says the Equal Checks Campaign will lead to nothing and was not that well founded. It also clearly states ATEK is legal (good news) as long as it is careful about how it manages its money.

As this is a blog post from Scouse Mouse and it has not been picked up on any other blogs I think cross-confirmation of the information may be a wise thing...then again it is odd none of the blogs who discussed ATEK before mentionned this.

Here is the link:

http://yonguksaram.com/the-nhrck-have-made-their-decision-and-atek-are-not-operating-illegally.html



It also states that ATEK can not give a salary or expenses. They can raise funds...but only for charitable purposes. And those are capped at 10 million won.

I also found the description of how ATEK can support teachers a little disingenuous. As he mentioned, this depends on the teacher being trustworthy. If some teacher's expenses run to say 20 million won...wouldn't a much more likely course be that he skips Korea and goes back to his home country rather than work for a couple more years to pay that back?

Of course not all teachers will do this...but all it will take are a few bad apples to abuse the system and then most ATEK members are going to say "Forget it." As the old saying goes "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

Also it says that the test and background checks are here to stay...much like the anti-ATEK people said would happen.

Basically it can only help foreigners suffering financial problems by working on the honor system more or less. Not exactly a good working model most places in the world of today.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may not be a perfect working system but it is what ATEK can do legally in Korea.

What this should indicate to ATEK leadership is that they CANNOT continue or re-ignite the Human Rights advocacy or the government challenging campaigns of the past. They simply will not have the funds or people to do this professionally.

ATEK leadership should have the wisedom steer ATEK into what it should have been from the beginning: a network for teachers that can inform and offer forums to discuss things. Nothing more.

Doing more considering the legal limitations on funds is not wise.


Last edited by PatrickGHBusan on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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james riot



Joined: 14 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

My ARC and Visa both expire on November 24th, and my director wants me to continue working until the 27th, and then leave on the 28th. The director assures me that I can just go into immigration with my ARC, Visa and flight ticket and get it extended. Does this story check out?
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