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Korean school blacklist

 
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kimchicrew



Joined: 13 Nov 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject: Korean school blacklist Reply with quote

Woosong University in Daejeon Korea:

It's a unihagwon.
You will be expected to work upto 20 hours.
You might be teaching University students, Adults and etc.
You will get only 3 weeks of vacation in the summer and 3 weeks in the winter.
You will teach the normal semesters plus vacation sessions at no extra pay.
The administrator will teach between 4-12 hours/week while the normal teachers will teach between 16-20 hours/week. Expect to teach 20 hours/week during the intersessions.
You are expected to enter all your attendance and students grades everyday incase you run away.
They usually have 2-3 teachers that ran away from the school each semester when I was there.
Turnover rate is usually more than 50%/semsters.

Source: http://asiatrip365.com/forums/jobs.20/
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greyhound



Joined: 10 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with all that? That's normal anywhere. 16-20 hours a week is cushy. 6 weeks holiday is normal too. I can't see what's so wrong with it. I'm not an expert on Korea, but that doesn't sound too bad to me at all. Rolling Eyes
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need previous university teaching experience to be hired there. The ol' BA + 4 or MA + 2. Considering that, contact hours are high and vacation is short.
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greyhound



Joined: 10 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

16 hours is high? That's 4 hours a day. How many is normal then? And how many weeks holiday do you want? And how much is the pay?
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talentedcrayon



Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Location: Why do you even care?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost nothing about this post makes me think "bad school"

If they want you to enter your grades every day, that's a reasonable policy.

If they want you to work the hours YOU AGREED TO WORK, that seems reasonable.

(They expect you to work the full 20 hours you agreed to? Oh the humanity! It's a travesty! Call your embassy!)

If they give you the vacation YOU AGREED TO when you signed the contract, that seems reasonable.

If they expect you to teach adults AT A UNIVERSITY, that seems reasonable.

I am not saying that the school sucks, or doesn't suck. But, you need to give people a much better reason than: "they follow the contract."
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tophatcat



Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

talentedcrayon wrote:
Almost nothing about this post makes me think "bad school"

If they want you to enter your grades every day, that's a reasonable policy.

If they want you to work the hours YOU AGREED TO WORK, that seems reasonable.

(They expect you to work the full 20 hours you agreed to? Oh the humanity! It's a travesty! Call your embassy!)

If they give you the vacation YOU AGREED TO when you signed the contract, that seems reasonable.

If they expect you to teach adults AT A UNIVERSITY, that seems reasonable.

I am not saying that the school sucks, or doesn't suck. But, you need to give people a much better reason than: "they follow the contract."


I agree with talentedcrayon.
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pmwhittier



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, university teaching positions have been getting less lucrative as the years go by. The "blacklist" is not really worthy of that term in this case. There's plenty more wrong at Woosong (hey, that could be their new slogan!) that people could write about if they chose to do so.

But yeah, I get the point. Kind of like when people on this and other forums get angry because people are doing private lessons for less that 50k/hr. Well, if you agree to 30k/hr, then that's what the price is now. So if Woosong wants teachers to work 16-20 hours a week, then that's what it is now.
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Fuzzy_Dunlop



Joined: 18 Jun 2014

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

talentedcrayon wrote:
Almost nothing about this post makes me think "bad school"

If they want you to enter your grades every day, that's a reasonable policy.

If they want you to work the hours YOU AGREED TO WORK, that seems reasonable.

(They expect you to work the full 20 hours you agreed to? Oh the humanity! It's a travesty! Call your embassy!)

If they give you the vacation YOU AGREED TO when you signed the contract, that seems reasonable.

If they expect you to teach adults AT A UNIVERSITY, that seems reasonable.

I am not saying that the school sucks, or doesn't suck. But, you need to give people a much better reason than: "they follow the contract."


+1

kimchicrew - Your post reads less like "Woosong is a bad place to work" and more like "I am unable to act like a professional."

kimchicrew wrote:
It's a unihagwon.


The Woosong Education Foundation runs a university, a college, and a language center. You will work in either the college or the university (but not both) and you might have some classes in the language center. How does that make it a unigwon? The job ad says you may teach a mix of credit and non-credit classes.

kimchicrew wrote:
You will be expected to work up to 20 hours.


As per the terms of the contract you read and decided to sign.

kimchicrew wrote:
You might be teaching University students, Adults and etc.


Again, this information is in the job ad that you read and thought to yourself, "I'm going to apply for this job."

I have to ask though...who are the "etc." students?

kimchicrew wrote:
You will get only 3 weeks of vacation in the summer and 3 weeks in the winter.


From the Woosong job ad: Vacation – 6 weeks paid

3 + 3 = 6. There it is. Right in the ad. And in the contract that you presumably read before you signed. Did you get your six weeks?


kimchicrew wrote:
You will teach the normal semesters plus vacation sessions at no extra pay.


Why would you get extra pay for doing the job you agreed to do in the first place? Were you on vacation during those sessions?

kimchicrew wrote:
The administrator will teach between 4-12 hours/week while the normal teachers will teach between 16-20 hours/week.


Work hard. Volunteer for extra work. Make an impression, Become an administrator. By the way, they are working during those hours, just not teaching.

What did you do to make an impression? Volunteer for extra duty? Prepare for and present at local or international conferences? Get published? Take con-ed courses? What do you feel that you did that made you stand out from the other 120 teachers that you feel was overlooked?

kimchicrew wrote:
Expect to teach 20 hours/week during the intersessions.


The 20 hours listed clearly in the job ad and in the contract you read and then signed?

kimchicrew wrote:
You are expected to enter all your attendance and students grades everyday incase you run away.


Part of your daily duties are to keep up-to-date records. You think this is too onerous? It's not just if you "run away". What if you are seriously injured in an accident or have to leave for an emergency?

kimchicrew wrote:
They usually have 2-3 teachers that ran away from the school each semester when I was there.


I can only speak to when I was there and in that four years I know of three that did the midnight run.

kimchicrew wrote:
Turnover rate is usually more than 50%/semsters.


Again, when I was there, it was maybe 15 to 20 (out of about 100-120 teachers). So that means that around 90 or so teachers stayed and/or re-signed each semester.

It's one thing to read the job ad and think "This job sucks!" (and I would disagree with that). It's another to read the conditions in the job ad, go to an interview (which typically has a "Do you have any questions for us?" component), receive and read a contract, agree to the terms of the contract and sign it, and then start whining that the school is following the contract.

Woosong is not the best job in ELT, but it is better than a large majority of the jobs out there.
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Fuzzy_Dunlop



Joined: 18 Jun 2014

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

talentedcrayon wrote:
If they want you to work the hours YOU AGREED TO WORK, that seems reasonable.

(They expect you to work the full 20 hours you agreed to? Oh the humanity! It's a travesty! Call your embassy!)


Lots of people complain when they have to work all of the hours they agreed to, but none of them ever offer to give money back when they are under hours. Rolling Eyes
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trueblue



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tophatcat wrote:
talentedcrayon wrote:
Almost nothing about this post makes me think "bad school"

If they want you to enter your grades every day, that's a reasonable policy.

If they want you to work the hours YOU AGREED TO WORK, that seems reasonable.

(They expect you to work the full 20 hours you agreed to? Oh the humanity! It's a travesty! Call your embassy!)

If they give you the vacation YOU AGREED TO when you signed the contract, that seems reasonable.

If they expect you to teach adults AT A UNIVERSITY, that seems reasonable.

I am not saying that the school sucks, or doesn't suck. But, you need to give people a much better reason than: "they follow the contract."


I agree with talentedcrayon.


Indeed.
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kimchicrew



Joined: 13 Nov 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject: Woosong Reply with quote

Normal university work:
9-12 hours/week.
Vacation = 4-5 months.
Don't need to spend 2 weeks just entering students grade information.
Don't you think if turn over rate is over 40%, there must be something wrong with the school?
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Fuzzy_Dunlop



Joined: 18 Jun 2014

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Woosong Reply with quote

kimchicrew wrote:
Normal university work:
9-12 hours/week.
Vacation = 4-5 months.
Don't need to spend 2 weeks just entering students grade information.
Don't you think if turn over rate is over 40%, there must be something wrong with the school?


Then get a job at a "normal" university (I'd like to see your source for what constitutes "normal university work" these days).

If you think you can do better for yourself, then great. Good luck to you. I sincerely wish you all the success in the world. Until then, you can't complain because the uni you work for followed the terms of the contract you read and willingly signed.

I have no idea what the turnover rate is now, but it was certainly nowhere near 40% when I left a couple of years ago.
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