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Is it legal to teach without a degree?
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J.B. Clamence



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ratslash wrote:
and i suppose having a degree in a fashion design or building brick walls makes it ok for you to be a teacher? having such a degree automatically makes you a good teacher and makes you better qualified to be a teacher even though you have never done a teaching course?!?!? what a load of tripe. remember, it is not what you teach, it is how you teach and having a non-related teaching degree does not mean you know how to teach.


All I am saying is that it is in no way unfair for a country to expect the teachers who teach within its borders to have a college degree. I consider that to be a perfectly reasonable and legitimate requirement. After all, I can't think of any developed nation where this is not a requirement. Thus, any comments to the effect that the government is overstepping its bounds by making such requirements strike me as absurd. Does that mean that any shmoe with a degree will be a good teacher? Of course not. But that doesn't mean we should lift all educational requirements for certain professions just because those qualifications do not necessarily ensure quality.

Quote:
also, i find you calling english 'teachers' in korea, the foreigner looking to make a quick buck, an "educational professional" quite insulting to the people who actually are educational professionals.


I don't know how you see yourself, but yes, I consider myself a teacher, which is a professional in the field of education. If you're just looking for a quick buck, and you don't consider yourself a professional, and you feel I am giving you too much credit, then you have my sincerest apologies for any offence I may have caused you by overestimation.
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kneezah



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked really hard to earn my degree (as I'm sure a lot of people who earned one have), so it's nice to know that some countries resepect my education. After looking for a job in my field in my native country, I have realized my degree is pretty worthless here. I think it's ironic that Korea (among other counties) require a degree regardless of the nature of the degree.

Is my BA in Fashion Marketing is going to help me in the classroom? Probably not.

Will my BA help me in a related profession? Most definitely. But apparently that doesn't matter to some employers.

I also think that by restricting jobs to degree holders countires are over looking some really great teachers. My bf may not hold a degree, but he has tons of experience tutoring and would make a fantastic teacher. He would probably make a better teacher than I would, but I'd never tell him that.
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OiGirl



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it legal to teach without a degree? Reply with quote

No.
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J.B. Clamence



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kneezah wrote:
Is my BA in Fashion Marketing is going to help me in the classroom? Probably not.


The point is that you have received an education. You have put in four years of hard work developing and challenging your mind and intellect. Sure, if you had majored in something more relevant to teaching, then of course it would make you better prepared for a classroom, but the simple fact that you have an education has to count for something against those who do not.

Is it possible for a person without a formal degree to have developed and challenged their mind in the same way that someone without a degree has? Of course. But the problem is that such people do not have proof. If you have a degree, you have proof that you are an educated person, regardless of your specialty. As I said, you can still be an educated person without a degree, but where's your proof? That's what the employers want to see, and it's a perfectly reasonable expectation.
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ratslash



Joined: 08 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.B. Clamence wrote:

The point is that you have received an education. You have put in four years of hard work developing and challenging your mind and intellect. Sure, if you had majored in something more relevant to teaching, then of course it would make you better prepared for a classroom, but the simple fact that you have an education has to count for something against those who do not.


disagree again. sorry. there is no way a degree in a topic that is un-related to teaching makes you "better prepared for the classroom".

i certainly do not class myself as an educational professional as i have not been educated in how to be a teacher, therefore, i am not a professional. nor am i one of those people who are here to earn a quick a buck. i take my work seriously, but just because i am classed as a 'teacher' while i am here in korea it does not mean i am an educational professional.
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nshadow



Joined: 24 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Teaching in Korea without a degree. Reply with quote

Well if he is really despret, he can always get a fake degree, but he will be taking his chances with that.

I know a few people in S. Korea, Taiwan, and Japan who have done it that way. I wouldnt.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with JB clamence: the fact that you've spent 3/4 years of effort and discipline developing your mind and knowledge, at whatever subject, says a lot for a person.
As teachers we are responsible for influencing and guiding a generation of young minds. People with degrees are on average, surely better people to do this than not.

I've seen some idiots teaching out here, teaching kids swearwords and whatever else...by keeping the qualification requirement of a degree, you are at least barring a lot of loser/ plebs flying out here for easy cash.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
I'm with JB clamence: the fact that you've spent 3/4 years of effort and discipline developing your mind and knowledge, at whatever subject, says a lot for a person.
As teachers we are responsible for influencing and guiding a generation of young minds. People with degrees are on average, surely better people to do this than not.

I've seen some idiots teaching out here, teaching kids swearwords and whatever else...by keeping the qualification requirement of a degree, you are at least barring a lot of loser/ plebs flying out here for easy cash.



Not all that many are being barred. If they really want to they can get a fake degree. I think a lot of "loser/plebs" simply can't be bothered to get it together to come to Korea. But there are a fair amount here already. See the "freaky waeguk" thread. Also a while ago I read on a thread that the number of teachers here on a fake degree is around 70%. That seems awfully high, but would explain a good number of threads on here Laughing

Still I doubt that it's 70%. Does anyone have any other statistics? I'd say (and this is just a guess) that the number of people here with illegal degrees is about 40%.
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sadsac



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Gwangwang

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say (and this is just a guess) that the number of people here with illegal degrees is about 40%.

I doubt very much whether the figure would be that high. That would certainly demean the efforts of those whe are legitimate and have put in the hard yards. Having a degree doesn't make us better than someone who does not, but it is the legal requirement of this government to have a degree in any field to be able to teach. So whether you agree or not, a degree is a requirement to work in Korea. I was initially employed under the old system and in the previous three years completed my degree on line. A right pain to do so, but in October 2001, they changed the law, so be it.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say the % of people here with no real degree is between15- 20%.

They demean the whole teaching profesion. I don't like the feeling that some jerk comes out here and gets paid the same as me, without even having bothered to get a degree...
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
They demean the whole teaching profesion. I don't like the feeling that some jerk comes out here and gets paid the same as me, without even having bothered to get a degree...


You have a teaching degree? Because, technically, anyone "teaching" here without a teaching degree could be accused of demeaning the whole profession.
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shawner88



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't you work full time, and he can hang out on a tourist visa and work on the sly, or not. Then every 3 months you can take off for a weekend.

I met some guys in Ulsan teaching with degrees they bought off hotmail e-mail.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord: i have a CELTA teaching certificate although my degree is in a different subject. More than most, no?

Guys "teaching" with degrees thay got off the internet disgust me. Why don't Korean directors check up on the legitimacy of their employee's qualifications?

I don't even know how I would've handled my first couple of months here if I didn't already have some knowledge annd experience gained from my training... i suppose some people just "talk" about whatever comes into their heads in class...
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ratslash



Joined: 08 May 2003

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord wrote:
rapier wrote:
They demean the whole teaching profesion. I don't like the feeling that some jerk comes out here and gets paid the same as me, without even having bothered to get a degree...


You have a teaching degree? Because, technically, anyone "teaching" here without a teaching degree could be accused of demeaning the whole profession.


well said.

there are plenty of pros and cons, as evidenced above, to the whole to have or not to have a degree argument. it can, however, be annoying for someone who wants to take the job seriously, who has a reason to be in korea other than to earn a quick buck, but they can't get a decent job because they don't have degree. am i talking from personal experience? or am i speaking from a friend's perspective who i have known to be in this situation? i will let you judge that for yourselves.

yes, there are lots of people here in korea on fake degrees or working illegally. i know where you can get them printed in itaewon (not that i know this because i have one!)

again, i stress the point that i have made previously, come down off your "i have a degree pedestal", because, believe it or not, having a degree does not mean that you are any better in a classroom than those without a degree.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kneezah wrote:
It seems like the government is going through great lengths to prevent non-degree holders from teaching..


And so they should. There are too many Westerners here who don't have a degree. What is wrong with standards? In order to teach in a hagwon, a Westerner should be required to have the same qualifications as his Korean counterpart. A first degree.


Last edited by Gwangjuboy on Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:03 am; edited 3 times in total
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