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The King of Kwangju
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: New York City
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 Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| kimchi_pizza wrote: |
| My hobby takes me to remote locations around Korea where battles and skirmishes of the Korean War have taken place. One particular place was deep in the country where the scars of fox holes and explosions are still visible. |
This sounds like an interesting hobby. How did you find out about these places? Your own research? |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| rockbilly wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
How old are some of you people? Ghost stories? Really? You know that when the brain dies consciousness dies too, right? There's nothing left. Or do you believe the spirit of the cow is watching over your shoulder every time you eat a steak or a burger. This whole afterlife silliness is the height of species-ist arrogance. When a chimp is dead it's dead. When you die you're dead too.
Sorry to have to be the adult in the room. |
You're the only kid in the room (apart from the guy following you, with his ridiculous reference to Dawkins).
Materialism is a hypothesis, nothing more. It conflicts with quantum physics, which shows us the material world dissolving into nothing. Quantum physics is pretty old-hat now, too. You arch-materialists haven't caught up with the 20th century, let alone the 21st. |
LOL. Quantum physics does not lead us to ghosts, leprechauns or fairies. There is not a single proven case of a supernatural event happening - ever. So if materialism is a 'hypothesis' it's one with an astonishing degree of credibility. Evolution is a fact. We are not the universe's special little project. With the billion cameras out there, and the uncountable number of cellphones with camera function, you'd think someone somewhere would have captured a supernatural occurence. Yet nothing. It's also funny that noone claims to get these eerie feelings or see ghosts near slaughterhouses where millions of other animals are slaughtered. Thinking that we have an afterlife but not the chicken in today's lunch is species-ist nonsense. When you die you die. If you have any evidence to the contrary please enlighten us.
Lastly, only fools make fun of Richard Dawkins. He's a brilliant scientist at Oxford, one of the world's most respected universities. Is he over-exposed, sure? But he is widely respected in his profession and bases his understanding of reality on, well....reality. Unlike some people here who think reality isn't titallating enough.
You are a university graduate. Start thinking like one. |
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Kiwigoddess
Joined: 07 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| rockbilly wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
How old are some of you people? Ghost stories? Really? You know that when the brain dies consciousness dies too, right? There's nothing left. Or do you believe the spirit of the cow is watching over your shoulder every time you eat a steak or a burger. This whole afterlife silliness is the height of species-ist arrogance. When a chimp is dead it's dead. When you die you're dead too.
Sorry to have to be the adult in the room. |
You're the only kid in the room (apart from the guy following you, with his ridiculous reference to Dawkins).
Materialism is a hypothesis, nothing more. It conflicts with quantum physics, which shows us the material world dissolving into nothing. Quantum physics is pretty old-hat now, too. You arch-materialists haven't caught up with the 20th century, let alone the 21st. |
LOL. Quantum physics does not lead us to ghosts, leprechauns or fairies. There is not a single proven case of a supernatural event happening - ever. So if materialism is a 'hypothesis' it's one with an astonishing degree of credibility. Evolution is a fact. We are not the universe's special little project. With the billion cameras out there, and the uncountable number of cellphones with camera function, you'd think someone somewhere would have captured a supernatural occurence. Yet nothing. It's also funny that noone claims to get these eerie feelings or see ghosts near slaughterhouses where millions of other animals are slaughtered. Thinking that we have an afterlife but not the chicken in today's lunch is species-ist nonsense. When you die you die. If you have any evidence to the contrary please enlighten us.
Lastly, only fools make fun of Richard Dawkins. He's a brilliant scientist at Oxford, one of the world's most respected universities. Is he over-exposed, sure? But he is widely respected in his profession and bases his understanding of reality on, well....reality. Unlike some people here who think reality isn't titallating enough.
You are a university graduate. Start thinking like one. |
If I may be so bold as to point out, I studied death and dying as part of my degree. It DID include the afterlife, spirits, etc. Such issues are covered in many disciplines ranging from Religious studies, Sociology, and Anthropology, to Psychology and beyond. Often we argue our points based on our own belief systems and there is nothing wrong with that, but it is not acceptable to belittle somebody elses belief system based on the idea that ones own belief system is superior to anothers. We are all university graduates but we all have different belief systems dependent upon culture etc. |
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augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| Kiwigoddess wrote: |
| If I may be so bold as to point out, I studied death and dying as part of my degree. It DID include the afterlife, spirits, etc. |
Lesson here, kiddos: Don't go to college in New Zealand.  |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| rockbilly wrote: |
| Often we argue our points based on our own belief systems and there is nothing wrong with that. |
Wrong. Belief systems must be based on facts. Surely it goes without saying that not all belief systems are equal. Holding a belief firmly says nothing about its connection with reality.
| rockbilly wrote: |
| It is not acceptable to belittle somebody elses belief system based on the idea that ones own belief system is superior to anothers. We are all university graduates but we all have different belief systems dependent upon culture etc. |
Again, belief systems should not be based on 'culture' but rather on facts. And yes, it emphatically is acceptable to belittle other peoples beliefs if they are ridiculous. Or should we respect the chap who says that all the stories about Santa are true because Rudolph appeared to him in a dream and told him so?
I'd be interested in knowing what your university degree was in. It certainly wasn't anything science related. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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I get a laugh out of asking people to describe the ghost they claim to have seen. They unfailing accomodate my request. "Oh, she had long hair and was wearing a cardigan, dress and boots. She had a watch on her left wrist, etc." I then ask then if they genuinely believe that clothing and accessories also have an afterlife. They go, "Huh, never thought about that.....but I DID see the ghost." Sure you did.
It saddens me that these people don't stop to think of a natural explanation for what they thought they saw. They go right to the supernatural explanation. Believing they saw a ghost makes for a better story, I guess. Makes their lives a little bit more interesting. Adds a bit of color to their dreary day to day existence. Gives them something to share with others who were 'chosen' by the otherworld to have this encounter. There are plenty of psychological explanations for why people desire to believe they witnessed something 'special'. Unfortunately, there are no fairies at the end of the garden. Elves, unicorns and gods don't exist.
Ghosts don't exist either.....regardless of how much some bored, lonely people wish they did. The universe contains enough wonder and awesomeness as it exists. It doesn't need dim-witted characters to help it out by making shit up. |
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rockbilly
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:21 am Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| rockbilly wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
How old are some of you people? Ghost stories? Really? You know that when the brain dies consciousness dies too, right? There's nothing left. Or do you believe the spirit of the cow is watching over your shoulder every time you eat a steak or a burger. This whole afterlife silliness is the height of species-ist arrogance. When a chimp is dead it's dead. When you die you're dead too.
Sorry to have to be the adult in the room. |
You're the only kid in the room (apart from the guy following you, with his ridiculous reference to Dawkins).
Materialism is a hypothesis, nothing more. It conflicts with quantum physics, which shows us the material world dissolving into nothing. Quantum physics is pretty old-hat now, too. You arch-materialists haven't caught up with the 20th century, let alone the 21st. |
LOL. Quantum physics does not lead us to ghosts, leprechauns or fairies. There is not a single proven case of a supernatural event happening - ever. So if materialism is a 'hypothesis' it's one with an astonishing degree of credibility. Evolution is a fact. We are not the universe's special little project. With the billion cameras out there, and the uncountable number of cellphones with camera function, you'd think someone somewhere would have captured a supernatural occurence. Yet nothing. It's also funny that noone claims to get these eerie feelings or see ghosts near slaughterhouses where millions of other animals are slaughtered. Thinking that we have an afterlife but not the chicken in today's lunch is species-ist nonsense. When you die you die. If you have any evidence to the contrary please enlighten us.
Lastly, only fools make fun of Richard Dawkins. He's a brilliant scientist at Oxford, one of the world's most respected universities. Is he over-exposed, sure? But he is widely respected in his profession and bases his understanding of reality on, well....reality. Unlike some people here who think reality isn't titallating enough.
You are a university graduate. Start thinking like one. |
Evolution is not a fact; it's a hypothesis. Nowhere is there any evidence of inter-species evolution.
I got a great big kick recently out of reading Darwin's Descent of Man. It's on Gutenberg. Darwin writes that "savage" black Africans have a superior sense of smell to "civilized" white Europeans. No evidence, of course. Page after page of absolute nonsense . . . and yet people take Darwin seriously. Just incredible!
Colin Wilson was no fool, but I enjoyed hearing him rip Dawkins to shreds recently. Look it up.
When I was 13 years old, I went to the dentist to have my wisdom teeth pulled. He put me under anesthesia. I popped right out of my body and watched the entire procedure. I was sufficiently in command of my reason to wonder about how I was managing to see without the use of my eyes, and think without the use of my brain. I was conscious, awake, aware of my surroundings, and thinking rationally, but from outside my body. Intelligence is non-local. It's separable from the brain. We do survive death, and there's a lot of evidence for it--people come back every day and report on their experiences after death.
There are more things than are dreamt of in ANYONE's philosophy. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| 북한. |
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Kiwigoddess
Joined: 07 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| augustine wrote: |
| Kiwigoddess wrote: |
| If I may be so bold as to point out, I studied death and dying as part of my degree. It DID include the afterlife, spirits, etc. |
Lesson here, kiddos: Don't go to college in New Zealand. |
That comment was far less intelligent than what comes out my tween aged daughters mouth.
Scorpion, you must need more coffee because you attacked the wrong person. I was the one who made the comments about belief systems.
Anyway moving along, just curious as to whether anyone else has anything more to add about hauntings? |
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augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| Kiwigoddess wrote: |
| augustine wrote: |
| Kiwigoddess wrote: |
| If I may be so bold as to point out, I studied death and dying as part of my degree. It DID include the afterlife, spirits, etc. |
Lesson here, kiddos: Don't go to college in New Zealand. |
That comment was far less intelligent than what comes out my tween aged daughters mouth. |
Oh, no... you brought a kid into this ghost world, too? Sorry, honey... but if you attend college and your studies include, "The afterlife, spirits, etc." you are not attending a good school; you're attending a religious school, or you're talking about a freshman philosophy course you took with a likely sub-par professor. I'm curious about what your degree was in, where you studied "death and dying... the afterlife, spirits". A BA in Shamanism from Wellington U?  |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| rockbilly wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
How old are some of you people? Ghost stories? Really? You know that when the brain dies consciousness dies too, right? There's nothing left. Or do you believe the spirit of the cow is watching over your shoulder every time you eat a steak or a burger. This whole afterlife silliness is the height of species-ist arrogance. When a chimp is dead it's dead. When you die you're dead too.
Sorry to have to be the adult in the room. |
You're the only kid in the room (apart from the guy following you, with his ridiculous reference to Dawkins).
Materialism is a hypothesis, nothing more. It conflicts with quantum physics, which shows us the material world dissolving into nothing. Quantum physics is pretty old-hat now, too. You arch-materialists haven't caught up with the 20th century, let alone the 21st. |
LOL. Quantum physics does not lead us to ghosts, leprechauns or fairies. There is not a single proven case of a supernatural event happening - ever. So if materialism is a 'hypothesis' it's one with an astonishing degree of credibility. Evolution is a fact. We are not the universe's special little project. With the billion cameras out there, and the uncountable number of cellphones with camera function, you'd think someone somewhere would have captured a supernatural occurence. Yet nothing. It's also funny that noone claims to get these eerie feelings or see ghosts near slaughterhouses where millions of other animals are slaughtered. Thinking that we have an afterlife but not the chicken in today's lunch is species-ist nonsense. When you die you die. If you have any evidence to the contrary please enlighten us.
Lastly, only fools make fun of Richard Dawkins. He's a brilliant scientist at Oxford, one of the world's most respected universities. Is he over-exposed, sure? But he is widely respected in his profession and bases his understanding of reality on, well....reality. Unlike some people here who think reality isn't titallating enough.
You are a university graduate. Start thinking like one. |
Your views are incredibly black and white. The atheist version of the Biblical fundamentalists who can't believe the world is older than some thousands of years.
Both blinkered views close people's eyes to the realities that exist and yes, while quantum physics isn't a simplistic field of work it does set out a rational case for multiple universes, parallel worlds, many dimensions and in doing so provides some explanations for supernatural phenomena.
I believe in evolution - but not in the simplistic black and white, reductionist, human beings are nothing but animals and if you don't agree you are species-ist etc. Darwin belonged to elites who used evolutionary theory to justify grading human beings from superior to almost sub-human, the last category of course including black people. Darwinism kickstarted the eugenics movement as a 'valid' so called scientifically based project.
It is dishonest or ignorant to pretend that current evolutionary theory consists of the Richard Dawkins school of thought, and Dawkins is some authority who has had the last word. Dawkins has been hammered by various scientists who believe in evolutionary theory as a base. Some of them are atheists, some are agnostic, a few are Christians, who understand that as we are missing so much information about the origins of humankind, we cannot make cut and dried, the case is closed pronouncements like Dawkins does.
Dawkins states that there is no God but he has no more proof than a Biblical fundamentalist stating that there is only a Biblical God and the Bible is literally true in everything. Dawkins can never prove there is no God or spiritual entities. Dawkins holds that before the Big Bang there was nothing - other less blinkered scientists are now making him and others look old fashioned by their study of how it is likely the Big Bang was simply another part of an evolving state.
Dawkins' book The Selfish Gene was a great book but lacks objectivity. He demonstrates how people like him go from completely rejecting the notion of spirituality, supernatural phenomena, different dimensions, and the mysteriousness of human beings but then discuss genes as if they make choices and were jumping from humans to humans who were simply containers for them. Again, he was hammered for this view by many scientists.
I know people who have seen what they think are ghosts and I have no reason to think they're lying or delusional. If you're the kind of people who ever have that kind of experience and then dismiss it as it can't be happening because, well, those things aren't true, then that's your choice. But to say that it can't happen because those things don't exist shows a very limited mindset that others choose not to have. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| ...while quantum physics isn't a simplistic field of work it does set out a rational case for multiple universes, parallel worlds, many dimensions |
Quantum mechanics' notion of multiple dimensions comes from having learned that certain subatomic particles' behaviors are best described as though those particles are acting in more than three dimensions. In other words: from scientific observation and math, lots of math;
| earthquakez wrote: |
| and in doing so provides some explanations for supernatural phenomena. |
however, to suggest that these other dimensions are responsible for the supernatural has zero basis in any observable facts or doable math. |
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thatkidpercy
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| kimchi_pizza wrote: |
The place was a little town called Chipyong, about 20 minutes north of Yeoju, where a very important and deadly battle took place called, "The Battle of Chipyong-ni" in Feb. of '51. American and French forces were COMPLETELY surrounded by Chinese and naturally the death toll was horrendous. A mass grave of Chinese was found not far from my little "pocket of ghosties".
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I lived in Jipyeong for a year and explored a fair bit, but never happened upon your "pocket of ghosties". Was it anywhere near the UN monument, if you remember? I head back to Jipyeong at least once a year to cycle and this caught my interest! |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| How old are some of you people? Ghost stories? Really? You know that when the brain dies consciousness dies too, right? There's nothing left. |
You know who you sound like?
A fanatical religious nutcase!
Both of you are completely sure of what happens after death and both of you are fools as a result.
At least the religious guy has an optimist outlook. 
Here's the thing, none of us knows what happens after death. And anyone claiming they do so are simply exhibiting a false sense of certainty designed to mask their deep inner fears of death.
What happens when we die?
Do we go to heaven?
Do we live again in another form until we break the cycle?
Do we dissolve into space and time?
Do we wake up from a dream?
Do we go to hell?
Do we shut down and then reboot?
Who knows?
The only thing I know is that matter cannot be destroyed and after winter comes spring.
On final point:
Everyone, especially atheists need to do powerful psychedelics!
I'm talking DMT, ayahuasca or a high does of psilcybin mushrooms.
These substances are a game changer.
Let me state this again, taking a heroic dose of psychedelics changes everything.
Scientists can talk their science.
Religious people can talk their gods.
Atheists can talk their rationalism or whatever.
But what I'm talking about here is a direct experience. Not words. I don't even have to say anything to convince you.
You can see for yourself.
And therein lies the superior place of the psychedelic experience above all other forms. You receive a direct experience in which you and only you begin to see what this is all about.
You may not get the answer, but you will definitely learn that not only is life stranger than we suppose, but stranger than we can even imagine. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| Everyone, especially atheists need to do powerful psychedelics! Let me state this again, taking a heroic dose of psychedelics changes everything. |
You can't see how your example of psychadelic drugs actually makes my case? Chemicals have an affect on the brain. Big surprise there. Change the drug and you get a different experience. Surgically remove the frontal left lobe it has another affect. Get hit by a baseball bat on the other area of the head and you have another affect. Take prozac, yet another experience. Material entities affecting material entities....Nothing in your post leads to ghosts. All it says is that drugs have an effect on the neurological system.
Methinks you might have had one drug-related experience too many. Doesn't seem you have too many functioning brain cells left.
As long as you're happy I suppose. |
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