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The most haunted places in Korea
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Sorry, kids! Reply with quote

rockbilly wrote:
Evolution is not a fact; it's a hypothesis. Nowhere is there any evidence of inter-species evolution.


I'm astonished and saddened by your utter ignorance of science. No evidence of inter-species evolution.Very Happy There is more evidence for inter-species evolution than for practically any other 'theory' in the scientific world. It happened. It is a fact. No credible scientist doubts it. It is no longer even debated by the scientific community. The evidence is so overwhelmingly on the one side that only the wilfully ignorant, or mentally substandard, person continues to doubt it.

Ghosts are more fun though, aren't they?
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
everything-is-everything wrote:
Everyone, especially atheists need to do powerful psychedelics! Let me state this again, taking a heroic dose of psychedelics changes everything.


You can't see how your example of psychadelic drugs actually makes my case? Chemicals have an affect on the brain. Big surprise there. Change the drug and you get a different experience. Surgically remove the frontal left lobe it has another affect. Get hit by a baseball bat on the other area of the head and you have another affect. Take prozac, yet another experience. Material entities affecting material entities....Nothing in your post leads to ghosts. All it says is that drugs have an effect on the neurological system.

Methinks you might have had one drug-related experience too many. Doesn't seem you have too many functioning brain cells left.

As long as you're happy I suppose.


DMT space is not like getting hit in the head or taking some pharmaceutical.

Your comment about not having many brain cells left says a lot about your close minded nature.


I understand that you may fear or be concerned about what you are not familiar with. But I'm telling you that if you have were able to properly experience the psychedelic state you'd see that you're literally blasted into a different word beyond the body.


What's strange is that this same psychedelic (DMT) is naturally produced in the human brain. And it is believed to excrete in large doses when we are dreaming or going through psychological trauma like the death of a loved one or during child birth.

It's also believed (although admittedly not 100% proven) that upon death when all the organs of the body shut down and the brain is left alone that the pineal gland (third eye) located directly behind our forehead emits a massive final dose of DMT.


If that's the case you likely enter the same tunnel before entering a very strange, scary and wonderful space. Except this time the tunnel leading back to the human host is closed.




Powerful psychedelics in heroic doses really change things and you can get to levels which are potentially beyond the human body.

The human body acts like the host or tomb of our conscious/soul/thoughts ... whatever you want to call it in our current reality as we live on this planet.

Certain yogic or tantric practice are said to be able to free our-self from this host. Near death experiences can also do the trick.


But psychedelic substances are much more powerful and faster and can act as a doorway leading to the other side or other dimension or other realities.


Again, my words can only do so much.

But unlike the Christian who urge a belief in faith or athiests who pridefully claims that everything can be explained in a nice simple material world; psychedelics offer you a direct experience easily attained, but extremely difficult to understand.
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your experience was simply your brain responding to the psychadelic drug. Scientists and doctors are fully aware of these drugs. They know exactly what part of the brain it stimulates and what experience it causes. There is little mysterious about it. Drugs affect the brain, often in strange ways. Unfortunately, there's not a scientist on the planet that will support your notion that something supernatural has happened. (Not exactly a neurologist are you?) Just because you experienced a strange sensation (being outside of your body, for example) doesn't mean that what you 'felt' actually happened.

And lets not forget, you were by your own admission on drugs at the time.Very Happy
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Kiwigoddess



Joined: 07 Feb 2013

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:



The human body acts like the host or tomb of our conscious/soul/thoughts ... whatever you want to call it in our current reality as we live on this planet.

Certain yogic or tantric practice are said to be able to free our-self from this host. Near death experiences can also do the trick.




These statements pretty much follow the brain in a vat argument. I wonder if freeing oneself always, sometimes, or never results in an NDE. I'm curious as to what experiments they hold now in the labs for parapsychology.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
Your experience was simply your brain responding to the psychadelic drug. Scientists and doctors are fully aware of these drugs. They know exactly what part of the brain it stimulates and what experience it causes. There is little mysterious about it. Drugs affect the brain, often in strange ways. Unfortunately, there's not a scientist on the planet that will support your notion that something supernatural has happened. (Not exactly a neurologist are you?) Just because you experienced a strange sensation (being outside of your body, for example) doesn't mean that what you 'felt' actually happened.

And lets not forget, you were by your own admission on drugs at the time.Very Happy



Smoke a bowl of DMT and come back to me.

Laughing


You're so quick to brush it off. It's so simple and easily explainable, eh?


Quote:
There is little mysterious about it.


Yeah, you definitely have no experience with these substances.

That's okay.....I understand. We live in a world which is for the most part hostile to these substances and there's a lot of negative propaganda associated with them.


But I'm telling you, when properly administered they like Huxley said open the doors of perception beyond this material world.



And you Scorpion, as a critical thinker cannot truly reject this without testing it for yourself.

Psychedelics won't kill you so its not like I'm asking you to play Russian Roulette either.

But I guarantee you 100% that a proper dose of DMT, ayahuasca, psilocybin, sylvia or something along those lines, will completely change your world view and leave you questioning everything you believe.


And let's remember that Renee Descartes, the founder of modern science was told by an "Angel" in a dream that the conquest of nature was to be achieved through number and measurement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92pBIw0f_Og


Psychedelics are IMO the bridge to the rational and other.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
And lets not forget, you were by your own admission on drugs at the time.Very Happy


Scorpion, you left out two important details. He just wasn't just on drugs, he was on psychadelic drugs....and "heroic dosages" of them to boot. And yet he wants us to believe that he was in a condition to ascertain - scientifically, rationally and credibly - what he was experiencing. It's no different from medieval peasants having strange dreams and believings gods are communicating with them, or they portend disaster for their village. The difference is, the medieval peasant didn't know any better. They had no access to scientific explanations of phenomenon. Modern people have no such defence. They are ignorant and superstitious by choice. And that earns my contempt.

Modern peasants.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forever wrote:
If you want to meet ghosts/spirits just start playing with a Ouija board, the ghosts will come to you very quickly.


You must be bloody joking. Next time you try it have a neutral observor in the room. Let him blindfold each of the participants. Once blindfolded she will place the board between you, but you will not know which way it is facing. Then relax and see what the spirits can spell out without your assistance. If the spirits are really behind the movement, then the fact you are blindfolded shouldn't affect the outcome at all. If it's all bullshit (which it is) you will end up with words like IMAQLWO.

Ouija boards are a massive scam that has brought in millions of dollars to manufacturers. Do you really think these manufacturers believe their product is magic? How bloody gullible can you be. It has been debunked too many times to count. Most recently Penn and Teller, who themselves became rich by convincing people that they were 'seeing' things that weren't actually there, have denounced the ouija board as a scam.

How did they describe the claims made for the ouija board's powers?

Ah, now I remember...."Bullshit."
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MoneyMike



Joined: 03 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly OT, but since when has it been an insult or put down to call someone a speciesist? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Hate to break it to ya, but unless you live in the forest using no electricity and eating nothing but roots and tubers, you too consider humans to be more important than animals. (Due to the negative affects of your lifestyle on nature) I sure as hell do.
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoneyMike wrote:
Slightly OT, but since when has it been an insult or put down to call someone a speciesist? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


Not really, if you place the statement in the context of this discussion (ie. that chimps and cows don't have an afterlife, but I do). That's speciesist silliness. We are 96% chimpanzee. Evolution is a cold fact. We are highly evolved animals but we are of the same substance, the same stuff. To think that we are endowed with a 'spirit' but my dog isn't is just human arrogance.

Surely that's too hard for you to follow.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
Scorpion wrote:
And lets not forget, you were by your own admission on drugs at the time.Very Happy


Scorpion, you left out two important details. He just wasn't just on drugs, he was on psychadelic drugs....and "heroic dosages" of them to boot. And yet he wants us to believe that he was in a condition to ascertain - scientifically, rationally and credibly - what he was experiencing. It's no different from medieval peasants having strange dreams and believings gods are communicating with them, or they portend disaster for their village. The difference is, the medieval peasant didn't know any better. They had no access to scientific explanations of phenomenon. Modern people have no such defence. They are ignorant and superstitious by choice. And that earns my contempt.

Modern peasants.



Again, I'm rebuffed by someone with no experience with the substances I'm talking about.

You see you can't really debate me properly.


A proper DMT trip or ahayusca journey is not like the hard to grasp - slip through your fingers - ambiguous message of a dream or vision.

Instead, it a completely in your face - memorizing experience which in many ways in more real than reality.

And when you push deeper it becomes so bizarre you beg it to stop Laughing

But ideally you are able to achieve an understanding of everything being in fact everything Laughing Wink



Smithington and Scorpion really need to get off their perch and try the substances I'm talking about before they attempt to discredit me. Otherwise they need to stfu.


Cause I'm not standing here saying that a certain God gave me a message or that I know what happens after death.

All I'm saying is that there is so much more to this reality and that psychedelics are a great tool for freeing ourselves from the material world.

You simply have to pop the red pill and make your own interpretation.

But until you do, stop with the false sense of intellectual superiority.



I have shown you the possible bridge to the rational nature of science and the irrational nature of God. If you don't take this path then unfortunately I feel you're missing out on a vital aspect of what this life is about.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpion wrote:
. To think that we are endowed with a 'spirit' but my dog isn't is just human arrogance.

Surely that's too hard for you to follow.



I don't see a dog painting a picture, singing a song or programming a computer.


I don't see a dolphin budding flying machines or devices that allow us to communicate around the planet in real time.


There is something definitely special about humans.


Perhaps we have evolved to this form for the purpose of spreading life into space. Who knows?
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Scorpion



Joined: 15 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:
Perhaps we have evolved to this form for the purpose of spreading life into space. Who knows?


Sigh!

Evolution does not have a 'purpose' in that it sets out to make a human, an oak tree, or a swan. Nature doesn't sit down and say, "Okay lads, let's make a flamingo happen a million years from now." Are you so completely uninformed about how natural selection works? How about this, let lay off the mind-altering substances for a while and spend a few hours at the library. Christ, you don't even have to get off your chair. Just do a google search about how evolution works. It emphatically does not consciously set out to achieve anything.

For the record, as a libertarian I generally have no objection to anyone experimenting with drugs in their own home. But you have an obligation to yourself to be informed as to what is happening when you are under the influence of drugs. Pick up a book on the nature of the brain and how it works under the influence of different substances. Just because a substance is called (for example) a "magic mushroom" doesn't mean there's magic involved.

We are in the space age here folks. Magic, gnomes and belief in supernatural entities are products of the infancy of our species. It's time to grow up and leave childish things behind us.

Have a great weekend.
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iammac2002 wrote:
Seems like they like to be in university dorms! My university's one female dorm is connected to the chapel by a secret tunnel... OK, I'm starting to frighten myself now, so I'll stop there. The girl's dorm is said to be haunted.

Fortunately I didn't stay in that one!


Can't you see the irony? You believe a 'university' dorm was haunted. Universities are where we go to get educated about the world. Rather than doing this you came away believing in your university dorm has ghosts walking about the halls.Rolling Eyes

What else did you learn at university? That unicorns are real, the earth is flat, and sickness is caused by mischievous fairies?

Twenty-first century people.
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smithington wrote:
What else did you learn at university? That unicorns are real, the earth is flat, and sickness is caused by mischievous fairies?

Twenty-first century people.


Punctuation? Cool
Oh the irony.

Just having fun....agree with your sentiments. Wink
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Otus



Joined: 09 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to admit, the psychedelic position puts an interesting twist on this kind of debate from the usual Dawkins/evolution kind of worship. Being in neither camp I am kind of curious. Isn't physical reality in both theories still shaped by the functioning of the brain? In one case it's just more regular and universally agreeable, while in the other its being altered a little more radically, but still by material means.

I remember where Russell got into some difficulties on that kind of issue and somewhat reluctantly had to introduce a 'neutral monad' to try and overcome it ... mind/body problem in the Cartesian system ...
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