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Chat With Beauties girl in hot water over book dissing Korea
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littlelisa



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red_devil wrote:
crescent wrote:
littlelisa wrote:
red_devil wrote:
How is Korea difficult for a vegetarian? I think it's quite easy, much easier than many other countries. I can name at least 20 different dishes (not including the 100's of side dishes) that are vegetarian.


Please don't forget that almost any soup-type thing has a meat or fish or seafood stock, that kimchi often has fish paste in it, and that countless things that seem vegetarian are really not.

Korea is not impossible to be vegetarian in, but it is definitely not "much easier than many other countries". Although I guess it depends on which countries.

There are a lot of vegetarian restaurants around and of course you can cook your own food, and I have enough Korean to order things without meat, etc. But ask a vegetarian, and none of them consider Korea to be an easy place to be vegetarian in.

Outside of Seoul, there are NOT many veggie restaurants.

Even trying to order a Kimbab without ham is a challenge.
"Kimbab han-jul ju-se-yo, Hem bek-uh-yo"
-"Ye."

And then she puts in the ham.


Not sure about outside of Seoul but at any Kimbab Jeong-guk just say "Geunyang Kimbap" and that's regular standard Kimbap which doesn't have meat.

Here's a list of vegetarian foods. Vegetarian's have it tough almost anywhere, my point is Korea is little if any different and the Korean diet being largely agricultural based as well as having roots in Buddhism will be easier to live off of vegetables than in many other countries including western countries. ALSO it depends on how strict a vegetarian you are. If you are very strict and won't eat any animal products or flesh of any kind including eggs, shellfish, or seafood, than you're going to trouble anywhere it's not a "Korean sux" thing.

Links to Vegetarian restaurants in Seoul:
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5
"Vegetarian" keyword search on Seoul Tourism site

Korean dishes (you can order or make yourself):

SOUPS
kimchi chiggae (sometimes has meat so ask no meat just in case)
Sundubu
Dwaenjang-chiggae
Ddeok-guk
Gyeran-tang
Kongnamul-guk
Mandu-guk (use vegetable mandu)
Miyeok-guk
Oinaeng-guk
Naengkongguksu
Ssalguksu

STEWS
Cheonggukjang-jjiggae (can substitute tofu for minced beef)
Sundubu-jjigae

NOODLES
Bibimnaemyun
Mul-naemyun
Chop jae
Jajang-myun
Bibimguksu
Guksu (sometimes served with slice of egg on top)
Jjol-myeon
Udong

RICE
Dolsot Bibimbap
Juk
Bokgeumbap
Kongnamulbap
Ogokbap
Yakbap
Yeongyangsotbap (can make without chicken)

OTHER
Kimchi dubu
Tteokbokki

SIDE DISHES (just a few)
Chwi Namul
Doraji Namul
Gaji Namul
Gosari Namul
Hobak Namul
Kong Namul
Sukju Namul

STIR FRY
Beoseot Bokkeum
Kimchi Bokkeum


Are you kidding me? Did you even read my post?

1. Everything under soups and stews is NOT vegetarian, they use meat, seafood or fish broth.
2. Most Kimchi is not vegetarian. Most of it has fish paste. That means the same goes for Kimchi Dubu, Kimchi Bokkeum and all other things with Kimchi in them.
3. MulNaengmyeon has "beef water" in it. Anything with a broth is 99% likely not vegetarian.
4. Jajangmyeon has pork in it 99% of the time.
5. FYI, I've never seen kimbap without ham in it unless it's been specially requested, and then they occasionally forget and put it in anyway. If I order kimbap, I watch them make it so that if they reach for the ham I can remind them. Someone who can't speak much Korean yet will have a harder time.

I don't know all the things on that list (by name, anyway), and I do know that some of them are/can be vegetarian, but seriously, if you are going to contradict vegetarians' own experiences and claim that it's easy to be vegetarian here, and then cite jajangmyeon and jiggaes and guks as examples, you need to think again. You're following Korean logic that says if you don't see a slab of meat in it, then it's vegetarian.

And yes, I already said there are a lot of vegetarian restaurants in Seoul. But those are more expensive usually, also if you're going out to dinner with friends near wherever the heck you happen to be at the time, it's usually not worth finding one. Besides, maybe your friends want to not eat at a strictly veggie place.

It's not easier than most other places. Vegetarians do NOT have it tough everywhere. I come from Montreal, where it's easy. It's even easier in some other places, like anywhere in India. I was just in Scandinavia and had no issues at all.

Korean food is great if you like to have a little bit of meat or seafood, but not if you don't eat any. And then it's not impossible, but just harder than in many other places. I'm not saying Korea sucks, I'm just saying it's not easy as you claim it is.
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wylies99



Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Chat With Beauties girl in hot water over book dissing K Reply with quote

tiger fancini wrote:
cdninkorea wrote:
bassexpander wrote:
As for her TV remarks, she said a half of them were pre-written by a writer. “You just memorize and regurgitate what is already scripted during the show,” she said.

I bet a lot of her fans are going to be pissed about this part especially; all those episodes of her lavishing praise upon Korea, only to find out it was all scripted. This part actually made me laugh out loud. Laughing


The really shocking thing is that people are actually surprised to hear this. I mean, come on, of course it's freekin scripted. Shocked


That's probably what's causing the extreme reaction to her obviously harmless comments- it's like telling kids there's no Santa Claus (sorry if that breaks someone's heart- Laughing ). They wanted to BELIEVE in Korean reality TV.
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Sakamoto



Joined: 11 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote:
Everyday I see girls with skirts too short trying to make their way up the subway steps, but they're not contorting themselves or doing anything ridiculous, just tucking their purse or bag behind them, or if they're with a friend, walking in front of the friend.

It is pretentious how they cover any flesh. Another thing is how they cover their cleavage especially if there's a foreigner around. As if I'm anymore leerish than the average Korean guy. It's a "mind says no, heart says yes thing I think".

What gets me though is the Kraut slapper wrote a book? Like, a print book? And people would buy it??


Don't be silly. How can they have cleavage withut boobs?
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rkc76sf



Joined: 02 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like this thread has turned into a vegetarian thread. Anyway, so the girl supposedly writes a book in her country about how bad Korea is, so? Is Korea going to be the world etiquette police and chase her back to Germany trying to rectify the problem? Just like they went to Argentina complaining how Korea and Japan were generalized in the same textbook, as if Argentina cares? Or how they seem to want to change everyone's opinion on the Sea of Japan? Who cares? People will write what they want to write, true or not.
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doggyji



Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "Koreans cannot take criticisms" mantra has only very limited truth. If you hatefully moan about Koreans out of nowhere, sure, many Koreans won't be nicely receptive to what you have to mumble at all. However, I believe it is not so much different with many other humans anywhere. Constructive criticism based on intellectual sincerity that makes people listen and nod is a different story. Numerous Koreans complain about matters in Korea all the time after all. To date, there have been heaps of books written by foreigners (needless to bother mentioning those written by Koreans who were born and raised in Korea) for general Korean readers that criticize certain aspects of modern Korea and a few of them were quite well-received and even bestsellered (does Scott Burgeson sound familiar?). Many Koreans look rather keen on legitimately critical opinions of Korea in non-Korean POV. What annoys some netizens in this case of the German writer on Misuda is that she appeared all smiley and nice on TV and then chose to write a book that seems to contain uncalled-for remarks like the mice quote. I'm sure they were instantly reminded of Mizuno Shunbei, the symbolic TV person of two-facedness. However, I think they were just fooled by her smiley image and selective (possibly inaccurate) translation of her book without context. In fact, she's usually been on the critical side on the show along with the other German guest. She even brought the very book to the show while speaking of her achievements in Korea. Some other Korean living in Germany translated part of the book in Korean (links below). In this translation, I can't sense any serious arrogance, bigotry or factual inaccuracy (I believe nobody can be truly free of a bit of ethnocentrism). Just her honest impressions in serene language. Some netizens are even speculating that a Korean publisher might be behind it for noise marketing, hah.

http://blog.naver.com/wunderba/50069746349
http://blog.naver.com/wunderba/50069753880

As for the show being scripted, as far as I know, most entertainment shows have writers who help the guests or panels make certain points or punch lines. I don't think she would say completely fake things against her own thoughts, especially as an active journalist.


Last edited by doggyji on Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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halfmanhalfbiscuit



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd hit it. Her. In the face. With cabbage.
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orosee



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Location: Hannam-dong, Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not let the lady speak for herself? Taken from http://blog.brigitte.de/korea/ and translated by Google:

Quote:
Since the publication of my book in Germany, my mailbox is overflowing with facebook. Every day I get messages from readers who liked my book and then plan a trip to Korea. Some have specific questions about accommodations, attractions, or language. Others play with the idea of traveling to a country, over which they have never really been given - after all, Korea is not exactly a popular travel destination for Germans.

Especially young girls write me that the book has given them the courage to go their own way and to try life abroad again. A young vegetarian, who for some time in Korea thanks to the fact that I mentioned in my book on how difficult it is for vegetarians in Korea. Many readers with experience of Korea require that they have Korea, seen as described in my book, and laughed over many passages.

It can reach me but also quite different messages, message in Korean that sound angry, "Liar!", "Traitor," "Wicked Witch!" - die Liste der Beschimpfungen ließe sich beliebig fortsetzen. - The list of insults goes on and on.

My book has not been translated into Korean and who is the German language is not powerful, it can not possibly have read. But obviously someone has to know by Silent-post method of the content and in Korean on my book posted on the Internet. However, he either has some misunderstood, mistranslated or incorrectly circulated.

Since I now know the idiosyncrasies of Korean Internet users, I had already expected such an incident. I have basically no problem if someone who has read the book and understood, says that he does not like. I am also aware that some passages may sound negative of the book from the Korean perspective. The German and the Korean sense of humor are just very different. What German readers have a good laugh, would find Korean readers will probably not funny. But who has not even read the book, can probably ill-judged.

The allegations, which come from the Korean side will be more and more absurd. A fan of the television broadcast in which I appear, verbally abused me as a hypocrite because, allegedly stood in my book, the dialogues in the show were written by Korean authors. I do not know where he got that information, but certainly not from my book.

Another "non-reader," says Joe, I would have done badly and written that I always do everything alone and that he had never helped me. In fact, I have written exactly the opposite. In my book says that without the help of Joe and a few Korean friends, I would have never in my first months in Korea right.

The situation is almost Kafkaesque - people who have not read my book, insult me, because they are angry about something that is in my book, not at all. Actually, I could almost laugh about it. Just gives me the aggressive tone of the most alarming news: "Go back to Germany! In Korea, you have nothing more to seek," "Piss off, bitch!", "You can make yourself prepared for what !"...
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beercanman



Joined: 16 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know who she is, what that show is, or what the upsetting or offensive comments are, but it seems she merely played a role on a TV show, like any actor, then expressed her real thoughts in a book. People would be wise to distinguish acting from the real person. I guess a lot of people thought the show was all real. How many talk shows are all real, where people say what they really think? Not many would go over so well like that I guess.

Last edited by beercanman on Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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E_athlete



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Location: Korea sparkling

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why people are flabbergasting over this. It's a girl's opinion. Some of the opinions which she expressed I actually agreed with. Like the one where she says Koreans tend to gossip about foreigners? ding ding ding.

But this is sort of human thing rather than Korean thing. Korea is a homogeneous society. One day a foreigners comes to your school and he looks different from everyone else in a 10km radius. What are they going to talk about? The foreigner. Of course.

praising Korea is acceptable, and anything else is not? I think whom ever is getting upset at this needs to relax for a bit.
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asylum seeker



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The netizens are going overboard on this. They should at least read the whole book before going postal. My bet is that there are also plenty of positive comments about Korea as well in the book but they are choosing to ignore them.
I think it's fair to say there are some overly thin-skinned netizens who can't handle any sort of criticism at all of their country.
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Forward Observer



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Location: FOB Gloria

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asylum seeker wrote:
The netizens are going overboard on this. They should at least read the whole book before going postal. My bet is that there are also plenty of positive comments about Korea as well in the book but they are choosing to ignore them.
I think it's fair to say there are some overly thin-skinned netizens who can't handle any sort of criticism at all of their country.



That's okay, it's nice to watch them stew in their juices once in awhile Wink
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Smee



Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a commenter on my post:
Quote:
Have to chime in here. I've read this article in Korean yesterday and it came as sort of a surprise to me. I am German and have read Vera's book a few weeks back. When I bought it, I thought it would be the usual crap that we normally get from books about Korea but it was a decent read and the picture she draws of Korea is VERY positive. The few negative aspects she points out do not stand out at all, though I'm not surprised that some random Korean netizen picks up on them and the Korea Time publishes a story based on that person's opinion/interpretation. Unreal.

Having said that, I'm not out to defend Ms. Hohleiter. I think it's highly hypocritical to categorize all German guys in Korea as "losers back home", who apparently just have to step off the plane at Incheon to get hundreds of girls just because they're "tall". Especially so, when noone in Germany has ever heard of you and you sure as hell would have never been on a TV show.

Complaining about Korean girls following trends and wearing mini skirts? Following what your writer/producer tells you to say and wearing mini skirts on the other hand is ok, I guess?

Can't get vegetarian food in Korea? That Koreans generally aren't very accepting of vegetarians is a well-known fact. You don't even have to be in Korea to figure this one out.

Accusing Koreans of not being familiar with the orthography of "vegetarian" in their own language? A bit pretentious if your Korean isn't the best either.

Anyway, the whole story is unsubstantiated as the book really doesn't say much negative about Korea or Koreans.


http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/08/misuda-panelist-bitches-about-korea.html

And as the poster up there said, you can look at her blog, too:
http://blog.brigitte.de/korea
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forward Observer wrote:
asylum seeker wrote:
The netizens are going overboard on this. They should at least read the whole book before going postal. My bet is that there are also plenty of positive comments about Korea as well in the book but they are choosing to ignore them.
I think it's fair to say there are some overly thin-skinned netizens who can't handle any sort of criticism at all of their country.



That's okay, it's nice to watch them stew in their juices once in awhile Wink


The thing is that plenty of people complain about their own country in many places in the world. Bulgarians often complain about Bulgaria, there are plenty of Americans who have problems with some things in America, and, of course, foreigners will complain in Korea when Korea is so different from the West and still has ways to go when it comes to interacting with foreigners and this article is an example of that, because this is an immature way of dealing with silly criticism of your own country.

Who cares if she said a few things that weren't flattering about Korea?
There are things, I am sure, that she likes about Korea. If a Korean complains about some things regarding Korea does that mean he or she doesn't like Korea? No, not necessarily. It seems like some people who work for the newspapers are desperate for stories and making a name for themselves, so they appeal to xenophobia. They think some people will be interested in these stories, and some will be, and so they write this. I think, frankly, that it's pathetic and something I might read in "People Magazine" or the "National Enquirer". It's really silly.
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endo



Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a minute, how was this girl racist? Rolling Eyes
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Sooke



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Netizen 1: We netizens aren't all smiles und sunshine.

Foreigner: Oooh, the netizens are mad at me. I'm so scared! Oooh, the netizens! Uh oh, the netizens are going to get me!

Netizen 1: Stop it!

Netizen 2: Stop, sir.

Foreigner: Don't let the netizens come after me. Oh no, the netizens are coming after me.

Netizen 2: Please stop the `pretending you are scared' game, please.

Netizen 1:
Stop it! Stop it!

Foreigner: No! They're so big and strong!

Netizen 2: Stop it.

Netizen 1: Stop it, foreigner.

Netizen 2: Please stop pretending you are scared of us, please, now.

Foreigner: Oh, protect me from the netizens! The netizens...

Netizen 1: Foreigner, STOP IT!
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