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List of "No Foreigners Allowed" Bars
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Gil wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


For real. Let's see, I the only place I was refused service was at whatsitsface garden shop trying to buy house plants. This was solved by me walking across the street to the other store where the lady was more patient with my lack of Korean.

Other than that no refused service anywhere. None.



Well then it must never happen. Case closed, Korea is shangri-la.


This sort of tied in to my post below about rural v. urban and age related factors. I think those are as much a factor as race. FTs in rural areas are going to have a different relationship with their community than those in urban areas. In a rural area you are more well known and there is a good chance that the store you visit is a store owned by the family of one of your students. This makes things easier for you and it makes it harder for the Ks there to be 'racist' towards you. After all if the turn you away you might ignore their kid in the classroom. You are also less apt to act a fool in a rural area where your actions are known all over town.

As DWAEJI said in another post a lot of it relates to your experiences and the shangri-las see one side of things and the ReichsKoreas see a different side. I wouldn't be surprised if you calculated for other factors like age, marital status, and rural v. urban you might find that those influence the happiness factor.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Gil wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


For real. Let's see, I the only place I was refused service was at whatsitsface garden shop trying to buy house plants. This was solved by me walking across the street to the other store where the lady was more patient with my lack of Korean.

Other than that no refused service anywhere. None.



Well then it must never happen. Case closed, Korea is shangri-la.


Not saying it doesn't happen. I am saying that if it did happen to the point of being a pervasive problem in Korea, I would expect a list by page six.
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Old Gil



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
Come on now as lovely as this little site is, it is by no means a scientific representation of the 'expat' life and death.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Gil wrote:
^
Come on now as lovely as this little site is, it is by no means a scientific representation of the 'expat' life and death.

Oh I'm aware of that, but I don't care. I'm with T-J -- where's the list, people?

I'm not suggesting there aren't many places in Korea that would discriminate against me based on my race. I've no doubt they exist, because I've seen some myself. Though most I wouldn't go to even if they didn't. (Not a criticism; simply not my cup of poison.)

Anyway, I want to see the GD list.

On my desk

By 0900 hours.

Dismissed!
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shamham



Joined: 29 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Komerican said: "So westerners want to maintain separate communities, which means separate social gatherings also, and yet you folks when you come to Korea seem to want o portray a different, false portrait of the segregated reality of your home countries. The US is the same of course, and Obama hasn't changed that." END QUOTE

TOTAL mispresentation. I've never said racism doesn't exist in the west (see earlier debate on this subject). However, it IS illegal in the US to deny access based on race. It's about choice. Whites may CHOOSE 'white flight' because they're racist - but they can't keep a black person from buying the house next to them, or from drawing a seat next to them at the bar. K bars we're talking about deny choice and are allowed to discriminate.

Komerican said: "I agree that it's normal for a teacher to meet locals. I'm just describing one factor that helps us understand the foreign community. I also think it's normal for the local men to not like it especially when there seems to be an abnormal fixation on Korean women by these men.

I'm describing some of the factors that underlie this behavior. Clearly a lot of western men have deep feelings of anger toward western women. Of course they are not going to say this face to face and that's why Dave's and other sites like this are so valuable since we get the truth here. It would be naive to believe what the men tell you and not believe what they can write anonymously here on Dave’s with no fear of repercussions. You have to follow what people do not what they say to you. And my point is that the dysfunctional nature of gender relations among westerners is contributing to some of these bars closing their doors to these particular types of men. Maybe if the Western men were happier with their western women there would be fewer of them prowling the clubs hunting for Korean female company.

Perhaps western men should be more accepting of a few pounds beyond their ideal. Perhaps western men should be more open-minded and try to date black Western women, something which I hardly ever see." END QUOTE

Normal not to like it? Abnormal fixation? I hate to use 'young-un speak' but - lolololol! Blatant racism! Why is that 'normal?' A young, single guy will chase whatever is available in his environment, period. Why, in your world, does the reason for that have to be that he's not accepting of western women? The answer is - it doesn't! If he's in Russia, he'll probably chase Russian women. Why? Because THOSE ARE THE WOMEN AVAILABLE! Who else are they supposed to 'fixate on' when they're in Korea? It's entirely normal and logical - you just don't like it.

That's the actual, simple truth Komerican. Not the complex picture you want to paint. New, different, exotic will always draw men - all men, not just western men. And the locals (be they white, black, hispanic, or asian) will always object. I had a hispanic girlfriend for a year in the US and got the dirty looks from Latin males. I've put up with the same from Asian males. In neither case did I connect with those women because I have a problem with western women. Truth is, breaking down my relationships, by actual percentage, I've dated white women 98% of the time. I ended up marrying a Korean women by chance. That's just how the cookie crumbled.

So you'll excuse me, when some 40 year old Korean man mutters 'foreigner's *beep*' to my wife, if I don't feel obliged to go 'oh, this isn't actually about her or me, it's about all those other westerners who hate western women and come over and perv on Korean women.' In fact, you'll excuse me if I refuse to find ANY reason it's acceptable for him to do that.

I think saying he's rude, ignorant, and racist will do just fine.
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Old Gil



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
Boo yah.
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misher



Joined: 14 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Komerican,

Although you don't actually come out and say it directly, you're very much implying from the tone of your posts that you simply don't like foreign men with Korean women. That is very insecure and pathetic.

This type of thinking is starting to piss me off. I've never experienced anything like this before. My girlfriend is called a *beep* in public. Korean guys give me looks of disgust. Some days are better than others but yesterday took the cake. This would explain the aggressive tone of my post. The funny thing is, my girlfriends who have Korean spouses/boyfriends never get any grief (only some from their mother in laws). Why do many Korean men have to be such insecure racist wankers?

Komerican, women go to "these clubs" mainly to met foreign men. If they want nothing to do with them (which is the vast majority, so don't worry little buddy, you're safe) then they wouldn't go. Why don't you butt out of their business? Another point is that over 80% of foreign guys I see with girlfriends, have a western girlfriend. You look at a club, see a few interracial relationships and decided that there is this huge "phenomenon" of western men perving around. Good god. They are men looking for sex. It happens everywhere. Get over it.

In terms of dating black women, there simply aren't any available. I've seen probably 4 or 5 black females since I arrived here. If Seoul had an expat population of say 20%, most of which were black, then you better believe you would see more of the said coupling you are saying that never exists.

The more I read your posts, the more I'm convinced that you fall into this category of a bitter racist Korean man. The anti-English spectrum is where you should be spending your time. I apologize for taking on of "your women." Even though you won't admit it directly, I'm sure you'd be happy as a clam if western men just dated "their own." Grow up.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Gil wrote:
^
Boo yah.


Where's the list Old Gil? Stay on topic and get us the list of all these racist bars that are out there. T-J said 0900 for the list. You're overdue. Just like you're overdue on the payments for your hotplate.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Old Gil wrote:
^
Boo yah.


Where's the list Old Gil? Stay on topic and get us the list of all these racist bars that are out there. T-J said 0900 for the list. You're overdue. Just like you're overdue on the payments for your hotplate.


Actually it was JongnoGuru that set the deadline...
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by2004



Joined: 20 Mar 2009
Location: Gyeongsan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boring...
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shamham



Joined: 29 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

by2004 wrote:
Boring...


And you added so much with your posting...


Koreans are people like any other people. They aren't special or exceptional, neither are they inferior or less capable. To paraphrase a Dave Matthews rambling at a concert, they came wailing out of a vagina just like the rest of us. Bad behavior on the part of Koreans deserves no more consideration or allowance than the rest of humanity. Smack it down, shame it in public, hold it up to contempt and scorn. One day it will change.

So let's speak plainly: a bar that excludes foreigners (and is allowed to) is absolutely appalling in a modern, civilized society. It's shameful and it's embarrassing and Koreans who don't understand that are humiliating themselves with such a public display of ignorance. It's distasteful, and Korea needs to stamp out this idiocy once and for all.

Having said all the above, I don't find it at all paradoxical to also say that I love Korea. I attack when I do because I want Korea to change in these areas and have faith that, eventually, it will.
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ippy



Joined: 25 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

b-class rambler wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
I've said it before and I'm going to say it again: Developed Country? My hairy arse.


Laughing
Well if you went to Japan, you'd find it happens at least as much there, probably more often than in Korea in spite of there being perhaps fewer westerners over there that behave in way that might make bars want to have such a policy.

Good luck convincing people of the backwardness of Japan.


Ive spent the last four years in japan clubbing in nagano, nagoya, tokyo, osaka, hamamatsu, and kyoto, and ill be honest, ive never ever been refused entry to a club. Ive not been in korea long enough to pass judgement on anything about korea, but on the issue of japan, UNLESS ITS A SOAPLAND OR HOSTESS BAR/SNACK (where the propierters generally panic that you cant understand the system or will act inappropriately to the girls etc), they tend to be pretty accomodating. Clubbing in japan is a blast, no bad vibes, no aggro. If its a bit of a naff club like you get in small cities, then itll just bne 40 or 50 people facing the dj booth and shuffling. If its kicking, then its exactly like the clubs back home. Ageha for instance is a blast, as is mago in nagoya and triangle in osaka. Id be happy in any of those places. Ah, now im just getting nostalgic and carried off on a tangent.

If you do have a problem with a club that bars foreigners, theres always debito anyway to kick up a fuss, He loves that stuff Smile Especially when onsens dont let his japanese daughter in because shes halfu. Smile So yes, i guess it does happen in japan, but its not in clubs. Jesus, half of them would be happy youre willing to take a chance, pay the 40 bucks entry fee, and hope youre not standing in a room with just 14 other people Smile
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Murakano



Joined: 10 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ippy wrote:
b-class rambler wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
I've said it before and I'm going to say it again: Developed Country? My hairy arse.


Laughing
Well if you went to Japan, you'd find it happens at least as much there, probably more often than in Korea in spite of there being perhaps fewer westerners over there that behave in way that might make bars want to have such a policy.

Good luck convincing people of the backwardness of Japan.


Ive spent the last four years in japan clubbing in nagano, nagoya, tokyo, osaka, hamamatsu, and kyoto, and ill be honest, ive never ever been refused entry to a club.


Well it does happen in Japan too. I lived in Tokyo for 2 years and got refused a few times, but to very Japanese orientated bars.

I do have a few Indian friends over there and it is much worse for them in Japan. They get refused a lot more often to clubs.........even friggin Gaspanic in Shibuya/Roppongi (that`s how bad it is!). The bouncers at the Shibuya Gaspanic blatantly told them if was because they are Indian too.
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ippy



Joined: 25 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gaspanic bouncers did him a favour.
That place is the worst place on the earth. Actually second worst behind the roppongi firehazard/deathtrap.

Actually screw it, racists are [Mod Edit] wherever they are. Just because i didnt experience it doesnt mean it didnt exist. And i know if you arent in the nice category of foreigner (white, graduate, relatively young and cute and preferably blue/green eyes), then youve probably got a fair few more hoops to jump though. I know my brazilian students were always being carded by the police just in case they stole the bike they were on, or were up to shenanigans, or were just supected illegal immigrants. So yeah, japans not a bed of roses either. I just forget that im top of the migrant pecking chain and probably get the least blatant racism directed towards me.
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hugekebab



Joined: 05 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
Old Gil wrote:
Steelrails wrote:


For real. Let's see, I the only place I was refused service was at whatsitsface garden shop trying to buy house plants. This was solved by me walking across the street to the other store where the lady was more patient with my lack of Korean.

Other than that no refused service anywhere. None.



Well then it must never happen. Case closed, Korea is shangri-la.


Not saying it doesn't happen. I am saying that if it did happen to the point of being a pervasive problem in Korea, I would expect a list by page six.


It is pervasive. If you haven't experienced, it's a near certainty that you will.
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