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william.mekemson
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: New international travel limitations? (Yeosu, Jeollemondo) |
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My school (and all other schools in my city, possibly in my province) received an order from up top (I am told Seoul office of edu -> JLP -> Yeosu edu -> principals) that there is a new 'interpretation' of part of our contract.
They are claiming that it has "always" been interpreted this way, despite the fact that no principal had ever heard of this until they sent the emails. They are saying it has always been there, but not always been enforced. I want to know if this is happening in other cities, provinces, under EPIK, GEPIK, etc.
If anyone can provide a good Korean translation, that'd also help greatly.
We get pretty long vacations out here, it's one of the things they advertised, and the reason many people come. Now, however, they are saying that we only have 14 days (m-f excluding Chusok etc) of our vacation that can be spent outside Korea. We work 2 week camps, then have the rest of the time "without work"
I suspect that the Korean is on my side, or if it can be 'interpreted' as they state, that the contract is still on my side because the English translation suggests that their 'interpretation' of the Korean is what the English says.
Here is my contract:
| Quote: |
제15조(유급휴가) ① 고용자는 피고용자에게 고용기간 동안 학기 중이 아닌 기간에 14일의
유급휴가를 제공하며, 15일전에 소속기관장에게 휴가를 신청하여 승인을 받아야 한다. 토요일과
일요일은 유급 휴가일에 포함시키지 않는다. 피고용자가 계약기간을 만료하고 재계약한 경우에,
사용하지 않은 유급휴가는 7일까지 새로운 계약에 이월될 수 있다. 이기간은 새로운 계약에서
우선적으로 사용되어야 하며 그 이후의 계약기간에는 반영되지 않는다.
② 여름, 겨울 방학 동안에 피고용자는 주당 20시간(정규시간 기준) 이상의 특별수업 또는
영어캠프에 참가한다. (정규 급여 지급으로 대신하며, 추가 경비는 지급하지 않음) 피고용인은
여름, 겨울방학 동안에 최소한 연속적인 2주의 수업을 해야 한다. 이러한 방학 스케줄은 최소한
학기가 끝나기 30일전까지 학교장에 의해 피고용자에게 통보되어야한다. 여름, 겨울 방학기간
수업을 하고 난 뒤의 나머지 기간 동안 고용인은 피고용자에게 학교에 나와서 근무하도록 출석을
요구하지 않는다. 이러한 추가적인 방학 중 휴가는 제 15조 ①항에서 설명된 14일의 유급휴가
외에 추가적으로 시행된다. 이 기간 동안 피고용자가 국제여행을 계획한다면, 피고용자는 떠나기
전에 여행스케줄을 학교장에게 제출해야하며, 학기가 시작하기 최소한 3일전에 도착해있어야
한다.
Article15(Paid Leave) ① Employee shall be entitled to a paid leave for a total of fourteen(14)
working days during the term of the employment. Paid leave may be taken at any time school
is not in session, and must be approved by principal at least 15 days in advance. Saturday and
Sunday don not count as vacation days. If Employee renews the contract, up to 7 days of
unused yearly paid leave may be carried over to the new contract period. This carried over
paid leave may be used in the new contract period, but it may not be carried over into any
subsequent contract period.
② During winter and summer break, Employee will participate in special classes or English
camps, up to 20 classroom hours per week(normal salary, no additional stipends). Employee
will spend a minimum of 2 consecutive weeks at school during winter and summer break. This
schedule is to be approved by the school principal at least 30 days prior to the close of
school before winter and summer break. For the remainer of winter and summer break,
employee will not be required to attend school. This additional paid leave is over and above
the minimum 14-day paid leave as described in Article 15-①. If Employee is planning
international travel, an itinerary should be given to the school principal prior to leaving the
country and them employee should be back at least 3 days prior to the start of classes. |
Here is what they have sent me as the "revised English translation."
| Quote: |
Article15 (Paid Leave) ① The Employee shall be entitled to 14 (fourteen) working days paid leave per annum (which can be used for home leave) during the term of this Contract. Paid leave may be taken at any time during the school recess. The Employee must submit a travel itinerary with leave dates for approval by the Employer not less than 15 (fifteen) calendar days prior to departure. The Employer MUST approve the dated itinerary of the Employee before the Employee departs Korea.
Should the Employee enter into a further Contract with the Yeosu Office of Education, up to 7 (seven) working days of unused yearly paid leave may be carried over to the new contract period. This carried-over paid home leave may be used during the currency of the new Contract only and shall not extend to a subsequent Contract period.
② During the winter and summer recesses, the Employee shall participate in special classes or English camps, up to 20 classroom hours per week. The payments for the �camps� are fully included in the Employee�s normal salary. (No additional payments of any kind shall be paid whatsoever.) The Employee shall spend a minimum of 2 (two) consecutive weeks at school during the winter recess and a two week block in the summer recess engaged in teaching duties. The schedules for the �camps� shall be drawn then promulgated by the Employer not less than 30 (thirty) days prior to the last day of the semester before both the winter and summer recesses. As for the remainder of the winter and summer recesses, the Employee shall not be required to attend school. This additional paid leave is extra over the minimum 14 (fourteen) days paid leave as sanctioned in Article 15-① and must be spent in Korea. Should the Employee use these days for home leave or international travel these days shall be unremunerated. Should the Employee be planning international travel in this particular recesses, an itinerary with dates of travel must be submitted to the Employer prior to leaving Korea. The Employee must return to Korea at least 3 (three) days prior to the commencement of the new semester and the Employee must report this fact to the Employer. |
Now, I know the English is not technically legal, but if they are making the claims of "interpretation" then the English could show how they are interpreting it. Especially if they change the English, seems they are changing the interpretation. I have had a few Koreans look at it, and they have told me that the sentence in the new English translation is simply lacking from the Korean.
They have made the following claims:
1) they have always had this interpretation of the Korean, they simply have not thoroughly enforced it (and still are not, only a select few principals are putting their foot down, but they all got the email)
2) the Korean is "difficult to understand legal Korean that lamen Koreans could not understand" - I view this as an attempt to say that any translation I get will not be good enough (unless, of course, I pay for a professional translation)
3) the edict came all the way from Seoul, it is simply impossible for anybody to resist, and it is being applied to everyone (everyone in Korea, JLP, yeosu, I don't know, but I don't think it's true of any level)
I am being told that the contracts public school teachers have recently signed DOES specify in English that there is a limit on international travel. I am trying to get a copy of their provision, so I can see if the Korean is also changed.
I have spoken to some people here who have been here years and never heard of such a thing. Others said they heard it briefly last year, went on vacation (maybe didn't tell the school where, or lied about for how long) and nothing has ever happened.
Others, however, are getting this thrown down on them. I almost got fined for summer vacation, for each day beyond 14 days (m-f) I was not in Korea (counting, I think, the day you leave and day you arrive as 'not in Korea') My co-teacher made it go away, but says that I will be unable to travel during winter vacation.
Someone else, who had their summer schedule approved by their principal, HAS been fined for each day beyond the limit (a full 1/20th of their month's pay, about)
A few questions:
1) I have suggested to the head of yeosu edu office that the easiest way to solve this would be to not fine anyone, tell the principals it's ok this year for international travel, and then start enforcing it for those with it in their contract properly. If he does not, what's the legal channel? The verdict came from Seoul it seems, do I go to the Labor Board above the office of edu?
2) does the office of immigration talk to the office of edu (or can they legally?) for instance, every time an E2 visa goes in or out, do they notify the office of education so they can run it through their database and notify the local offices?
3) has ANYONE else had this happening? |
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jhuntingtonus
Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Location: Jeonju
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Changing a contract you've both already signed in midstream? What will they offer you as consideration to compensate? Does the original Korean say anything about this limitation?
What is this about these contracts? What part of "both sides agreed to this and it is legally binding" don't they understand? Doesn't Korea follow the rule of law? This sort of thing needs to end. |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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What program are you with? JLP? Are you in touch with Chris, the foreign teacher liason? If not, send him an email.
I've heard of some funny business going on with contracts and vacation days. It's happened in other provinces on occasion and even in Jeollanam-do.
I no longer teach, but when I did last year I had 5 weeks of vacation I could use for overseas travel: one week in summer, four in winter.
What they're trying to pull sounds shady especially if they're doing it mid-contract, though it does reflect this becoming a less friendly market for teachers. |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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But after reading the original contract, it doesn't seem like there's anything funny. Are all contracts like that? Damn, because we were getting five weeks of itnernational leave (plus lots more off time as well).
I wouldn't sign a contract that said I had to deskwarm over holidays while the other teachers were out of school. Is that standard now? |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Smee wrote: |
What program are you with? JLP? Are you in touch with Chris, the foreign teacher liason? If not, send him an email.
I've heard of some funny business going on with contracts and vacation days. It's happened in other provinces on occasion and even in Jeollanam-do.
I no longer teach, but when I did last year I had 5 weeks of vacation I could use for overseas travel: one week in summer, four in winter.
What they're trying to pull sounds shady especially if they're doing it mid-contract, though it does reflect this becoming a less friendly market for teachers. |
Did you leave Korea? |
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william.mekemson
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well they are claiming that they are NOT changing the contract. They say that the Korean has said this all along, and the translation was wrong (that the second translation is correct)
That is why I'm asking anyone who can translate... I don't really think it's true.
I am not positive, I thought I applied through EPIK, but apparently JLP is the public school system in Jeollanam-do? I'll have to get more information... can you give me Chris' email?
Smee, did you spend that week, and the other 4 weeks, outside Korea? Did they mention that you had a limited number of days outside Korea? |
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william.mekemson
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
But after reading the original contract, it doesn't seem like there's anything funny. Are all contracts like that? Damn, because we were getting five weeks of itnernational leave (plus lots more off time as well).
I wouldn't sign a contract that said I had to deskwarm over holidays while the other teachers were out of school. Is that standard now? |
Well the contract says I have the rest of the holiday "without work" - so no I don't have to come in. I think that if I had to come in, the principal would have to also.
I would not have signed a contract that said either that I had to come in on days I don't work ( I still occasionally do show up and they say I have no classes but must stay there, not the worst thing in the world) nor would I have signed a contract that said I could only leave the country for part of my paid time off.
As far as I know, this is the same contract everyone in my city has. There ARE new ones, and I hope to get a hold of one to post here, that stipulates in English that there is a limit. I will see if the Korean is in fact the same. Mostly, I want to know what that Korean says, because I think they are just trying to change it mid contract and coming up with the excuse that because it's complicated legal jargon, they can interpret it how they want, and change their interpretation. |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Konglishman, no, I'm still in Korea.
Actually, yeah, it looks like the revised contract you posted is what's been in place all along, they just didn't explain it in the original English one.
Basically, you're entitled to all the international travel you had before (14 days). They're reminding you that you need to go into school for winter and summer breaks (two weeks of each), but that you may spend the rest of the time at home. Anything beyond the 14 days alloted by the contract---which, if you want to travel overseas you need to get approval---you have to stay in the country. Winter break is, like, six weeks long, and summer break is about four weeks, so that will still give you about four weeks extra leave, not counting the 14 days you use for international travel. You just have to stay in Korea for that time.
The last three years I had 5 weeks of vacation in the contract that I could use for international travel during the breaks (first two contracts I had 4 weeks in summer, the last one was four weeks in winter). All the time in my public school job I had to sign out for breaks. When I stayed in the country I signed a form that said I was doing "independent study" at home during the semester breaks so that I didn't have to desk warm (the Korean teachers sign this, too, which lets them stay home and not come in and watch TV during winter vacation.) I did some camps, but I also had several weeks off during breaks that I had to stayin the country. I've heard of somebody who got in trouble for taking too long a vacation, but I'm not sure if that's true or just an old wive's tale.
Anyway, it looks like it's the same policy that's been in place for a while, but they just never explained it to you. Crappy move.
Like I said, are you JLP? Are you in touch with Chris? He might be able to explain things better. |
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benji
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| How does it benefit the schools by limiting teachers' overseas time to 14 days? |
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jhuntingtonus
Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Location: Jeonju
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| benji wrote: |
| How does it benefit the schools by limiting teachers' overseas time to 14 days? |
I wonder too! My school offered to cut my vacation instead of my pay if I exceeded my sick-day allowance. When they don't assign me to anything anywhere near all the days between semesters, why should they care if I'm at home doing nothing or out of town? Why do they care at all? |
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cincynate
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: Jeju-do, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| What is the consensus on 'Desk warming' . I was told by my school that I would have to come in during the breaks, but I wouldn't have anything to do. Is this just the Korean's covering their ass, or are they really expecting me to come in here and sit for 8 hours with nothing to do?? Who will be watching me? |
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jhuntingtonus
Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Location: Jeonju
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| cincynate wrote: |
| What is the consensus on 'Desk warming' . I was told by my school that I would have to come in during the breaks, but I wouldn't have anything to do. Is this just the Korean's covering their ass, or are they really expecting me to come in here and sit for 8 hours with nothing to do?? Who will be watching me? |
May not be eight hours, but mainly just an appearance. |
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fusionbarnone
Joined: 31 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| cincynate wrote: |
| What is the consensus on 'Desk warming' . I was told by my school that I would have to come in during the breaks, but I wouldn't have anything to do. Is this just the Korean's covering their ass, or are they really expecting me to come in here and sit for 8 hours with nothing to do?? Who will be watching me? |
Ask your co-teacher to get you a POE form(all Korean teachers are provided with this) which states you will "work" at school related stuff at home during school vacations. |
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Gillian57
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Smee wrote: |
What program are you with? JLP? Are you in touch with Chris, the foreign teacher liason? If not, send him an email.
I've heard of some funny business going on with contracts and vacation days. It's happened in other provinces on occasion and even in Jeollanam-do.
I no longer teach, but when I did last year I had 5 weeks of vacation I could use for overseas travel: one week in summer, four in winter.
What they're trying to pull sounds shady especially if they're doing it mid-contract, though it does reflect this becoming a less friendly market for teachers. |
This actually happened to me and the othe foreign teacher at my school. Our pay for the month of September was reduced by the amount of time we had spent "Out of Korea beyond our 2 weeks" for summer vacation AND they went back to last WINTER vacation and did the same! All of this was deducted in one lump sum from September's pay.
Apparently the school received the memo stating this change in enforcement policy, but my "Co-teacher" neglected to read the dang thing, so the other foreign teacher and I went our merry way none-the-wiser.
I spoke with Chris at the Jeollanam-do board of education and expressed my concerns, then I spoke directly with Mr. Yang who is in charge of recruiting foreign teachers for the Jeollanam-do board of education and who was my co-teacher at my school 7 years ago, and basically got the old, "Gee, that is too bad, but this is the way it is" routine.
Had I known that this was going to be policy, I would NEVER have resigned my contract! I have been teaching at this school for 7 years and I have NEVER heard about this, there is NOTHING in my contract that says I must remain "In country" and my contract expressly states that any special classes/camps are paid above and beyond my regular pay.
This is just plain wrong. Needless to say, I am looking for a different job. |
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thoreau
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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<<<deleted>>>
Last edited by thoreau on Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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