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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: Coming soon: Ice-free arctic summers? |
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/15/climate.arctic.sea.ice.melt/index.html
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New data released Thursday suggests that the Arctic Ocean will be "largely ice free" during summer within a decade.
The report, complied by the UK-based Catlin Arctic Survey and the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), is the latest research into ice thickness in the Arctic.
Researchers predict that within 20 years ice cover will be completely gone during the warmer months.
The expedition, which was completed in May, was led by UK explorer Pen Hadow.
He and his team collected data by manually drilling into the ice and noting its thickness along a 450-kilometer route across the northern part of the Beaufort Sea.
They found that the area surveyed was comprised almost exclusively of first year ice.
Scientists think this is significant because traditionally the region has been made up of much older, thicker ice.
"Discovering this area of younger ice provides another body of information that supports the rapidly emerging scientific consensus that it's going to be nearer 10 years from now that we will see roughly 80-85 percent free waters in the Arctic Ocean," Hadow told CNN. |
But you know, global warming is a massive hoax concocted by Daily Kos to make Al Gore rich and force everyone to get gay-married. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: |
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To think that someday soon some dad will be telling a story to his kids "Y'know, there used to be a big land of snow and ice that was called the north pole once. It had big white bears called Polar bears living there".
Incredible. I think its too much for most people to comprehend. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Coming soon: Ice-free arctic summers? |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/15/climate.arctic.sea.ice.melt/index.html
| Quote: |
New data released Thursday suggests that the Arctic Ocean will be "largely ice free" during summer within a decade.
The report, complied by the UK-based Catlin Arctic Survey and the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), is the latest research into ice thickness in the Arctic.
Researchers predict that within 20 years ice cover will be completely gone during the warmer months.
The expedition, which was completed in May, was led by UK explorer Pen Hadow.
He and his team collected data by manually drilling into the ice and noting its thickness along a 450-kilometer route across the northern part of the Beaufort Sea.
They found that the area surveyed was comprised almost exclusively of first year ice.
Scientists think this is significant because traditionally the region has been made up of much older, thicker ice.
"Discovering this area of younger ice provides another body of information that supports the rapidly emerging scientific consensus that it's going to be nearer 10 years from now that we will see roughly 80-85 percent free waters in the Arctic Ocean," Hadow told CNN. |
But you know, global warming is a massive hoax concocted by Daily Kos to make Al Gore rich and force everyone to get gay-married. |
How do you know that ice in the Arctic, in the summer, is a natural state of affairs? Have you been alive for longer than 100,000 years? Climate change obviously isn't a hoax. That's like saying tides or weather patterns are a hoax. A more nuanced argument would be whether the current climate patterns, we are seeing, are caused by man. Because, if they weren't, what is the point of trying to change the tides, the weather or the climate?
Last edited by Rusty Shackleford on Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
To think that someday soon some dad will be telling a story to his kids "Y'know, there used to be a big land of snow and ice that was called the north pole once. It had big white bears called Polar bears living there".
Incredible. I think its too much for most people to comprehend. |
You do realise that polar bear numbers are not shrinking, right? And that they survived a far warmer period in the 1600s? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Coming soon: Ice-free arctic summers? |
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| Rusty Shackleford wrote: |
| How do you know that ice in the Arctic, in the summer, is a natural state of affairs? Have you been alive for longer than 100,000 years? Climate change obviously isn't a hoax. That's like saying tides or weather patterns are a hoax. A more nuanced argument would be whether the current climate patterns, we are seeing, are caused by man. Because, if they weren't, what is the point of trying to change the tides, the weather or the climate? |
Okay, a good point. I think anyone would admit we aren't certain. Perhaps climate change is caused by our activity, perhaps it's not. As such, the intelligent thing to do is to play it safe. Until it's proven it's not our activity causing it, let's assume it is an act accordingly. If it turns out it was caused by us, we will have kept the world more liveable for ourselves. If it turns out it was not caused by us, well, we still enacted a number of good changes that are valuable in their own right (e.g. instituting a cleaner, less fossil fuel dependent energy economy).
By the time we know for certain, it might be too late. We'd be fools not to err on the side of caution. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I would rather let technology handle it, IF, the problem arises. Lowering our standards of living for a nebulous thing we don't fully understand, that may or may not happen is, to me, a very bad idea. Especially considering that the people it will hurt most is the poor people of the world. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The costs of dealing with global warming might lower our living standards by how much? 10% than what it otherwise would have been? If it turns out to be an illusory problem. If it's a real problem, dealing with it prevents a decline in living standards. It also is clearly the world's poor that have the most to lose from it. For us, a decline in living standards means less organic broccoli and innovation in MP3 players. For them, it means dying. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| The costs of dealing with global warming might lower our living standards by how much? 10% than what it otherwise would have been? |
Where did you get that figure? In any case 10% is a massive decline in GDP. That would be mind blowingly catastrophic.
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| If it turns out to be an illusory problem. If it's a real problem, dealing with it prevents a decline in living standards. |
So, we have a situation where we have to cut living standards, just in case. But, if it doesn't happen it was in vain. Or just going on as usual and taking the hit anyway. The smart choice is to take a chance. If we act, we have a 100% chance of cutting living standards. If we do nothing, at best 50-50 chance of lower living standards.
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| It also is clearly the world's poor that have the most to lose from it. For us, a decline in living standards means less organic broccoli and innovation in MP3 players. For them, it means dying. |
It won't be people like us that can't have organic broccoli anymore, that are affected. It will be people doing borderline jobs who become unemployed. They will take a 75% cut in their standard of living, while we hardly notice. The cut in standard of living won't affect everyone equally.
As for the developing world, if they can't develop, they will continue to die, anyway. They can die with global warming or die without development. Which do you choose? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, a good point. I think anyone would admit we aren't certain. Perhaps climate change is caused by our activity, perhaps it's not. As such, the intelligent thing to do is to play it safe. Until it's proven it's not our activity causing it, let's assume it is an act accordingly. If it turns out it was caused by us, we will have kept the world more liveable for ourselves. If it turns out it was not caused by us, well, we still enacted a number of good changes that are valuable in their own right (e.g. instituting a cleaner, less fossil fuel dependent energy economy).
By the time we know for certain, it might be too late. We'd be fools not to err on the side of caution. |
A very good point Fox. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
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Okay, a good point. I think anyone would admit we aren't certain. Perhaps climate change is caused by our activity, perhaps it's not. As such, the intelligent thing to do is to play it safe. Until it's proven it's not our activity causing it, let's assume it is an act accordingly. If it turns out it was caused by us, we will have kept the world more liveable for ourselves. If it turns out it was not caused by us, well, we still enacted a number of good changes that are valuable in their own right (e.g. instituting a cleaner, less fossil fuel dependent energy economy).
By the time we know for certain, it might be too late. We'd be fools not to err on the side of caution. |
A very good point Fox. |
This isn't a very good point, for reasons I have already pointed out. If we do nothing we have, at best a 50-50 chance of lower living standards because of man made global warming. If we act we have a 100% chance of lowering our standard of living. Whether man made global warming happens, or not. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Even I'm impressed by the callousness on display here. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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He who has the most hysterical claim wins (the government money).
Anyways, they say a decade = no ice. Ok, the other shrill greens are saying a decade or two of cooling (more ice) and then we will get slammed with warming.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8299079.stm
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| To confuse the issue even further, last month Mojib Latif, a member of the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) says that we may indeed be in a period of cooling worldwide temperatures that could last another 10-20 years. |
I'd like to see those two teams in a room together (they'd blame Exxon for inserting differing opinions in their minds).
So, no matter that their models can't predict anything.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8299079.stm
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This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.
But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.
And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise. |
No matter. We don't need evidence that their evidence is worth more than soju-induced vomit. They're greens! They just care so darn much. |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.
But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures. And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise. . |
At least one model did forecast this, by refining existing models. It goes on to predict a sharp rise after 2010-2015, though RealClimate has �2500 riding on temperatures rising before then. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| At least one model did forecast this |
The article published in 2008 (submitted in 2007) predicted cooling from 2000-2006? That's amazing.
Can I bet on who won last years World Series? |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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